Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Downtown Toronto Drive-In

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Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 05-18-2001, 03:35 PM:

From another list.....

>>>The Docks is a huge (21 acres) entertainment complex, featuring a nightclub, batting cages, indoor / outdoor volleyball, etc. The drive-in will actually be in the same space used as a golf driving range during the day.
This is right downtown on the waterfront.

BIG new SCREEN! 65'x135'. The operator claims it is the biggest in North America. Room for 470 cars! It's scheduled to open June 15.<<<

So what I'm wondering is just what kind of lamp they'll be using and am interested to know how they'll combat ambient light in downtown Toronto (though it's probably a little darker down on the water).Any of our Toronto locals know anything about it? When's the last time anybody built a drive- in near a major metropolitan area, let alone smack-dab in the middle? Interesting....

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-18-2001, 03:41 PM:

They better be using 70mm prints for that size screen! If they can somehow have the screen facing Lake Ontario, there's a chance they could keep the stray light in control. And for that size screen, they may be planning to use a high gain screen, and restrict the viewing angle. Keep us up to date on this interesting project.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 05-27-2001, 07:33 PM:

Well, more bad news as far as the technical side goes. Besides a difficult to manage 135ft. screen, it seems this drive-in will be too close to the Toronto Island Airport and not permitted to use an FM stereo transmitter. Apparently they are going to install an AM "bleeder" under the ramps. Too bad, not much choice. I don't recall my date or I ever being disappointed by the AM sound back in high school

, but the bigger problem will be the huge screen. With a captive market of 2million, I feel they will still do well, especially considering it's just another attraction for them, but I think they'd have done better with 3 50foot screens, mono sound or not.....

Gordon, maybe they'll want those twin Cinemaradio units we have, does anyone still make anything like those????

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 05-27-2001, 08:21 PM:

The airport may even complain about them having an AM transmitter because aircraft broadcast on AM frequencies. The drivein should install speakers instead.

Posted by Geoff Bradley (Member # 658) on 05-28-2001, 12:08 PM:

Dave, is this going out by the Panavision
offices?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-28-2001, 12:13 PM:

Panavision isn't down there it is PSLights
The airport should not have a problem with FM transmission so I think someone is feeding a bunch of bs
FM transmitters used here are DOC approved (dept. of communucations) and are stamped accrodingly

Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 05-28-2001, 12:42 PM:

AM can be done right (just like film!). An AM modulator with a decent high frequency response will sound quite good. It isn't the AM modulation process that's the problem, but narrow bandwith receivers and stations that restrict their upper high frequency end in favor of more "punch" in the voice region and less interference to adjacent channels.

Quite a few car radios these days (especially those intended for C-QUAM AM stereo) have adaptive passbands that widen in the presence of a stong enough signal. They DO sound good.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 05-28-2001, 10:19 PM:

Geoff, I'm not a local, not exactly sure where it is. About the FM being banned, that's apparently what the fellow installing the equipment has told another exhibitor, so I can't say for sure what's going on.

Posted by Mike Bianchi (Member # 271) on 05-30-2001, 03:20 AM:

Anybody have a source for more information on this place? I'm outside Cincinati but plan on visiting Toronto again soon.

Thanks

Posted by Peter Berrett (Member # 672) on 05-30-2001, 05:25 AM:

Hi

This is the first I have heard of a drive-in being refused permission to broadcast on the fm band because of a nearby airport.

At the power levels required and with the appropriate antenna system the signal should not reach out far from the drive-in. Further, the fact that aircraft do not use fm radio frequencies means that there should be no interference. There is a greater likelyhood of interference from the large, powerful fm radio transmitters in Toronto.

At Dromana Drive-in (near Melbourne) the owner (a ham radio operator like myself) uses a dummy load as an antenna to great efect with his fm transmitters. A dummy load is really not an antenna at all but rather just a load attached to the end of the antenna cable to ensure that the energy being radiated by the transmitter is not relected back into the transmitter.

As it was explained to me, there is a strong ground wave that permeates for a relatively small distance only. The effect is that within the drive-in perimeter the signal is quite strong but the moment you get out of the grounds and start to drive away, the signal drops away very quickly and sharply. I have left my radio tuned to the drive-in frequency and driven out of the grounds only to find that after 50 ft or so the drive-in signal dropped away very quickly.
http://www.drivein.net.au/

Here in Australia the licensing system plays a part also. We have what we call a 'class license' for various low powered transmtters. On certain frequencies (including the fm band) one can legally operate a small transmitter provided the EIRP (the output power)does not exceed a certain threshold. One does not need to contact the Government, get a callsign or pay a license fee to do.
http://www.aca.gov.au/legal/licence/class/lipd.htm

cheers Peter

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-30-2001, 06:41 AM:

The whole story sounds like hogwash to me, mostly because of that "FM not allowed" nonsense.
The CN Tower is almost beside the airport. and transmits a few megawatts of FM and TV, plus a bunch of AM radio and microwave.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 05-30-2001, 08:14 AM:

Remember, the "FM not allowed" was passed to me second hand, it's possible there's another reason. But, however they're doing it, the drive-in will open soon, in the old shipyards of Toronto. Of course, should the 2008 Olympics be awarded to Toronto, all this land will be redeveloped, the "Docks" will be no more (owners laughing all the way to the bank). Here's the link, John the characatured image seems to indicate the screen will face the lake, you'll need a high-powered telescope!
www.thedocks.com/nav/drivein.htm

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-30-2001, 11:33 AM:

I'll need both a telescope and a very high tower to watch the movies from Rochester! I read somewhere that with the curvature of the earth, I would need to be over 1000 metres above Lake Ontario to see Toronto over the horizon. Toronto harbor is 95 miles (160 kilometres) from Rochester "as the crow flies". Wonder if the reason the Toronto Island Airport fears the drive-in radio system is that they are turning up the radiated power just to reach Rochester!

Maybe I can borrow the backup telescope optics that Kodak build for the Hubble Telescope (the GOOD optics that wouldn't have needed to be fixed by a Space Shuttle mission).

:
Kodak Made Backup Mirror for Hubble Telescope
Kodak Hubble Telescope Mirror Moved to Smithsonian Museum

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-01-2001, 05:22 PM:

Well the drivein is open and the equipment is
Simplex Xl with high speed movement
Simplex XL soundhead
Xetron lamphouse and Irem rectifier
ORC platter
Decad FM transmitter and a microphone mixer for preamps
Interesting note
The installing company forgot to put oil in the machine that had no oil sight glass and was installed non operating side flush against the wall guess what it seized up
If the fact there was no oil in it was not enough the oil pump was not moved to the back of the head and with the very steep up angle it wouldn't have pumped any oil anyway

Posted by Keith Madden (Member # 910) on 08-01-2001, 10:31 PM:

I see, so instead of a new drive in they have a new drive out

And clouds of smoke from the booth, not the Chevy in front....

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-02-2001, 08:55 AM:

I saw an article about this new theatre in a recent issue of Boxoffice magazine. They only had one photo, and it was just a small black & white snapshot. Anybody else seen this thing? I'd like to see what their completed project looks like. Ramps or no-ramps?
Isn't there a web-site or something?
What I'd like to see..... "Drive-In's done right"

------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Nashville, Tennessee
(Drive-In Theatre - Start-Up)

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-02-2001, 09:02 AM:

No ramps it is in a Golf driving range by day

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-02-2001, 09:27 AM:

Good idea for the dual use as a golf driving range by day, and a drive-in at night. But why can't a driving range have ramps, unless there is a problem using the ball-collecting equipment?

Did they end up with a 135-foot screen? What kind of light level with the high speed intermittent and more efficient shutter? What lamp size in that Xetron lamphouse?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-02-2001, 09:43 AM:

I heard a rumour that it was a 7K and that several prints got scorched because they didn't install a heat filter

I haven't heard any positive comments from the projectionist on the installation but it does appear to be doing good business

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 08-02-2001, 12:01 PM:

Sheesh Gord! Even I knew enough to install the "drive-in" kit. And they're working great. I think I'll try to find some lamps soon, wan't to see 'em go!

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 08-03-2001, 03:07 PM:

It's a 4500W lamp, with a non-standard reflector in the lamphouse apparently. I don't recall the amperage but it's probably being overdriven. There is a heat filter, the burnt print of Shrek came preburned. I checked and the light is quite flat, with no hotspot where the print was blistered.
The light level on screen is weak but viewable. The city lights aren't a major problem, it's pretty dark BUT the screen faces the Docks outdoor nightclub area and the lights there are a killer. Scope is acceptable but flat is way too dim. Right behind the screen across the road there is a bulk salt facility with some bright lights for unloading ships, if you get unlucky and a ship is there you have a lot of light in your face.
There is some grading but not full ramps like a standard skytop, probably so the ball picker machine can get around OK.
They also have cafe seating in the driving area behind the car area (with speakers) at least 200 yards from the screen, damn far and really unwatchable but if you want a hard drink that's where you go - only soft drinks allowed in the cars. Must be about the only drive-in with a bar?
It was $11.00 or $12.00 per person last time I checked. They run a double feature (or triple), first show is "family" with a racier second show.
Gord, to be fair the tilt up is so slight that the oil pump was drawing from the sump with front pickup - but would have sucked air if much oil leaked out (and XLs never leak, right?)
BTW, recently the projection bunker was finished with siding. The contractor naturally covered the exhaust vent and forgot to cut out a hole afterwards. The lamphouse overheated a bit, I'm not sure if the mirror survived but the supplier did have to do some work on it afterwards.