Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Kodak 2393 Vision Premier print stock

This is topic Kodak 2393 Vision Premier print stock in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002305

Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 05-22-2001, 09:07 AM:

I just finished making up our print of 'Moulin Rouge' and noticed that it's printed on 2393 - I think this is the first feature that I've handled which has been printed on this stock. (Last week, we received trailers for the Sydney Film Festival, also printed on 2393.) I look forward to seeing the results!

Although I heard that there were several show prints made for this title, the print we received was part of the regular print run.

Has 2393 been used for entire print runs before? If so, how long has this been common practice? What are some recent examples?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-22-2001, 09:24 AM:

Both Kodak VISION Color Print Film 2383 and Kodak VISION Premier Color Print Film 2393 are catalog listed items, and readily available. The 2393 is more expensive to manufacture (more silver and coupler), so it is priced about 9 percent more. Distributors have a choice of films, depending upon the "look" desired. Sometimes, to save a bit of money, they may opt to have a mix of prints, making more expensive 2393 prints only for key markets/theatres.
2383 Technical Data
2393 Technical Data
Use of VISION Print Film

Here are some articles about productions that preferred the "look" of 2393:
Jubaku on 2393
Czech Movie on 2393
In Camera Article

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-24-2001, 07:23 AM:

So they made 2393 prints of Moulin Rouge. Fantastic idea. (really)

But...the colours don't match reel to reel. There are drastic changes in color saturation in these prints.

The lab has managed to send out prints with running scratches on the base of a few reels.

They have also managed to put a rub down the centre of the print on some reels which make little black scuff marks through those reels.

We had the chance of getting one of the 1st generation 'show' prints, but they have gone to the multiplexes (at least two of which will be GUARANTEED to scratch the thing from top to tail before the weekend is over). Meanwhile, we have a rushed out and pre-scratched print.

We do have Film Guard though, which is more than anyone else in this town can say to my knowledge. It's good and it can work some miracles, but it won't get rid of these lab marks.

It's all a bit sad and more than a little bit funny.

------------------
Children really brighten up your life...they never turn off lights.

Posted by Bill Langfield (Member # 818) on 05-24-2001, 09:27 AM:

John Pytlak,

John what was 'OUT OF AFRICA filmed' with?
I believe it was AGFA XT.

The reason I ask is because the result
was stunning. It has stuck in my mind until today. No other film image has come close, UNTIL, Tralier A of Peal Harbor.

BILL.

Posted by Bill Langfield (Member # 818) on 05-24-2001, 09:41 AM:

John Wilson.

Hi, John, I've got a heap of stuff to chat
to you about. It will be fun.

However, your print of Moulin Rouge
would have come from AT-LAB.
(then with replacement 1,8&9)
I cant believe it would have the damage
you describe - erm perhaps it can.

And my other point was as if Multiplexes would damage prints - erm perhaps your right.

My NEXT point is, erm,
well HOYTS are trying. Have I tried ths b4?

BILL.

See next msg.

Posted by Bill Langfield (Member # 818) on 05-24-2001, 09:50 AM:

Michael,

Is Roulin Rouge going to be a pain in the ass SRD ?? - What are the error rates?
There were no DTS disks shipped, so Im
running in SR or A

It's not in EX is it?
I've only been bothered to watch to first
5 minutes, love the intro, reminds me a bit of Superman - But much better done.

Bill.

JOHN WILSON IS ONLY TO READ ON FROM HERE

Sorry John this is a mess of a msg.

John,

The Letter from 20th Fox.
We'll it's a sad thing that Baz felt he had
to say not to cut nine seconds from the leader of spool one. Does he assume ppl
are going to unroll the reel until they see an image and not work 3 feet from the end of the leader? (Smart ones chop 1 foot from 3)
(OK, as long as the sound track is clean)

As for fader settings, he should have simply stated, RUN IT LOUDER THAN NORMAL.
Why not did he not just do a Mummy Returns.

HOWEVER that said, the chop toppers, don't
know sound levels, focus, framing, masking,
ratios.. I could go forever.

However, HOYTS policy is that only
experienced projectionist are made Cheif
and the cheif train those who want to become
projectionistist to the highest standard.
Projectionistist, Project

After the RED CARPET release of the film,
At Fox Studios
did you get sent replacement reels 1,8&9 ?
All our locations did. We can only assume
he was not not happy with the responce to
to the beginning and ending and had an alternate version ready to go.

I'll have to get out to Ritz and see you.
Thats right near Fox Studio's isn't it?

Ive heard about how the Ritz likes to do
everything right, however you know the same
mostly goes the same at the Orpheum.

Did Michael tell you Ian got a go at another location and proceeded to destroy a print of 'The Mummy Returns' and put on 3 wrong movies, IN ONE SHIFT -what can you say??
You can laugh, at first, but it's not funny.

Bill.

Posted by Harry Robinson (Member # 265) on 05-24-2001, 11:18 AM:

John, could you give us an overview of the different Eastman Kodak film stocks over the years, along with their charateristics? The Eastman films often have a number followed by a series of icons that are meaningless to the uninitiated. A link to an Eastman Kodak site detailing all of this would more than suffice.

Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 05-24-2001, 01:34 PM:

I haven't had a chance to sit down and watch the entire movie yet, but from what I have seen thus far, it certainly looks impressive.

To add to John Wilson's remarks, our print also has a longitudinal base side scratch directly from the lab. I haven't been able to assess the color changes from reel to reel (I will do this early next week) but I have noted occasional splotch marks screen left (near the soundtrack area) which would indicate staining from soundtrack redevelopment. The soundtrack itself appears to be high magenta. I guess that cyan (silverless) soundtracks will eliminate any risk of that problem.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-24-2001, 02:50 PM:

I believe that "The Negotiator" was the first (or one of the first) "big" releases to be printed on 2393. I remember watching it and thinking "wow, this is a _nice_ print" before I knew about the Vision print stocks.

Kodak has (had?) a nice demo reel showing several types of scenes, printed on EXR, Vision, and Vision Premier stock and hot-spliced together in order so that you see each scene three times on each type of print stock. The biggest difference is in the contrast range (particularly in white-on-black titles).

Harry -- the "symbols" are the date codes which indicate the date of manufacture of the stock. There's a chart listing the symbols and corresponding dates; there's one version of this on the Kodak web site and Jeff Joseph has a more complete version which he will probably send you if you ask nicely. For the last 5-6 years or so, Kodak stock has had the actual date printed in arabic numerals next to the date code. Fuji stock has long printed the standard numeric date on the edges. Agfa and Dupont stock do not have date codes.

What is the current status of Agfa's motion picture business? They used to make both camera and print stock (35mm only, I think) and then stopped and re-started. Does anyone know what's going on?

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 05-25-2001, 01:24 AM:

Date codes here:
http://www.film-center.com/dates.html

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-25-2001, 10:48 AM:

Bill Langfield asked: "John what was 'OUT OF AFRICA filmed' with? I believe it was AGFA XT."

David Watkin filmed "Out of Africa" using BOTH Kodak's EASTMAN Color Negative Film 5247 (mostly for interiors) and Agfa XT320 (mostly for exteriors).

Harry Robinson asked: "John, could you give us an overview of the different Eastman Kodak film stocks over the years, along with their charateristics?"

Kodak's website has a Chronology of Kodak Motion Picture Films:
Chronology of Kodak Films

Technical information about all the current Kodak motion picture film products can be found at:
Kodak Camera Films
Kodak Films for Post Production and Prints

Scott Norwood asked: "What is the current status of Agfa's motion picture business? They used to make both camera and print stock (35mm only, I think) and then stopped and re-started. Does anyone know what's going on?"

AFAIK, Agfa currently sells only color print film and sound negative film for motion-pictures in the USA. In the USA, the color print film is sometimes used for trailers and on-screen advertising. Unlike Kodak, they have chosen not to offer the comprehensive line of products needed by the motion picture industry (e.g., camera films, intermediate films, etc.)

Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 05-25-2001, 10:56 AM:

Kodak also has vision stock in Super 8!
John, Where do you have this stuff developed?

Josh

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-25-2001, 01:41 PM:

Josh:

Information about Super-8 films and processing is on Kodak's website:
Kodak Student Filmmaker Newsletter
Kodak Super 8 Film Information
Super 8 Labs and Dealers

Reading this material, it looks like Super 8 Sound offers ECN-2 processing. AFAIK, most of the Super-8 negative ends up being transferred to video (e.g., it's popular for music videos).

The 8mm Film Format Metadirectory is a good source of links to information:
http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavender/569/