Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Threading Tips 101

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Posted by Kyle Connolly (Member # 827) on 05-22-2001, 01:56 PM:

I like the threading tip in the tips section, however there is one thing in it that I think may be wrong. It demonstrates threading backwards to stop the leader from ever touching the floor to keep it clean. However, it says to thread through the failsafe / cue detector before threading the rest of the projector. That, I find, is dangerous.

About a month ago at my theatre, the failsafe in projector 5 was dirty I guess, and I didn't realise it, but the little green light that tells you film is in the failsafe was on without the film. A projectionist was threading the projector, and it just started! His hands were in it! The 10 beeps from the automation BEFORE starting aren't really audible in the noisy booth.

Anyway, this sort of thing could happen all the time if you thread the failsafe first. I guess it would not be much of a problem if you had to manually start the projector, but our automation starts it automatically at the film start time.

I just wanted to see what everyone's take on this is.

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-22-2001, 02:05 PM:

Any automation that starts film from a timer or computer should have a "safe" mode for threading. If your automation does not, then common sense would dictate to thread through the entire projector without the failsafe, then thread the failsafe and then start turning the motor over by hand. If you thread the projector without the failsafe and start turning the projector over by hand to check the loops and framing, your leader will be dumped on the floor.

Posted by Tom Evans (Member # 857) on 05-23-2001, 08:05 PM:

I agree, the tension should be taken up on the platter first without the film touching the floor. We all know it's only the leader, but just observe how dirty the first trailer or advert gets from the dirt on the leader migrating into the film. You should get the tension before actually threading the film into the projector..and always hold the film until the take-up platter stops, this will prevent the film from snagging if the return arm goes to far over and crushes against the cluster/selector rollers. Likewise u can always let go of the film if this is going to happen. And if u do take up the film like this always check that the film is sitting properly on the returning rollers

Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 05-23-2001, 09:03 PM:

One thing I havent seen mentioned (unless i havent looked hard enough) is alternatives to threading upward and keeping the leader off the floor at the same time.

I just couldn't get the hang of "threading up" so what I started doing is to "thread up" to the lowest sprocket wheel to anchor the film, take up the slack, and "thread down" the rest of the projector.
The trick is pulling the right amount of slack to thread the rest of the machine.

Also, I think you should shut off those timers and start the movies yourself.
You should always be there to make sure the picture goes on screen properly

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-23-2001, 10:37 PM:

That is the way I usually thread, but when you do it that way, you need to go back and readjust the film around the bottom sprocket. It takes a little longer, but it is better than getting the leader on the floor. Either way you get exactly the same benefit.

But when you train a new projectionist, you should train them to thread UP from the beginning.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-24-2001, 06:59 AM:

Another way to keep the film off of the floor if using the holdback sprocket is too much for someone to deal with is to get a clothespin. Keep it clipped to the projector and when you are ready to thread, clamp the leader down to the projector, thread as normal, then release the clothespin as you thread through the failsafe and start platter tension.

Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 05-24-2001, 05:19 PM:

Or if you really hate threading backwards, you could place a white pillowcase in a clean garbage can and dump the head leader into it while threading. it takes a bit longer, but the leader still does not touch the floor

Josh

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-24-2001, 08:09 PM:

By all means, KEEP THE LEADER OFF THE DIRTY FLOOR when threading/lacing the projector. "Bottom-to-top" threading works well for many, pulling the leader from the platter to the top guide roller of the projector, past the soundheads and projector, and right back to the platter takeup without touching the floor, then finally threading the projector and soundhead(s) bottom to top.

Josh's pillowcase idea is like a film editor's "trim bin" --- it keeps the film from contacting a hard surface that may scratch it. But launder the pillowcase frequently to keep it from accumulating lint and other debris that will get on the film.

Any dirt picked up by the leaders will contaminate the platter and projector, and work its way into the print, leaving lots of UGLY black dirt specks on projected image.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 05-25-2001, 12:58 AM:

I dont' see the point of threading UP.. I have threaded DOWN for 13 years now... My leader never touches the floor. Using Strong platters, I go from payout- bypass the projector- to the take up (T/U platter switch is off, btw) then go back and thread the projector. After checking all loop sizes/framing window/etc, I go back to turn the take up platter on to pull final tension on the 'dancer arm'. All the while, I have my hand slightly on the platter in the event the dancer hangs and the platter doesn't stop. I can either stop it by hand until the switch can be cut off, or I can disengage the motor. I can't remember that ever happening, but if it did, I'd be ready...

YMMV,

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The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 05-25-2001, 05:04 AM:

HAHAHA
This is the part where the CHANGEOVER projectionist has the benefit. He can thread either upwards or downwards (most prefer the downwards procedure). Anyway. Threading upwards is kind of difficult (practice always makes it better). But. I don't see any reason why anyone suggests threading UP. It is mere fact that threading DOWN is much easier. Any reasonable projectionist can take good care of the film not touching the dirty floor and COME ON GUYS. How many of you actually CLEAN your rollers every single day and how many of you wipe your platters every single show. Let's be real. Instead of catching the dirt from the ground you get to catch it via your projection equipment. Unfortunately people don't pay much attention and neglet cleaning their projectors every now and then. That destroys the print and we are left with an extremely scratcfull (what a WORD!!) film. Anyway. Changeover is the best

You take the film from the up spool and your thread it to the down spool. No need to touch the floor or anything. See ya
Demetris Thoupis

"FOR STRENGTH AND HONOUR"

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-25-2001, 06:51 AM:

Threading down is only easier if that is the way you learned to do it.

You don't need to clean the rollers often if they never really get dirty in the first place.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-25-2001, 08:34 AM:

Jason,
Does any part of the leader hit the floor when you are threading the actual projector head? To keep it from hitting the floor, you must be securing the film in some manner. That's really all that is important.

Demetris,
Yes, threading UP is much, much quicker than threading down if you learned that way or have the ability and/or desire to change your ways. (I say "ability" because some people just never can seem to get the hang of it, no matter how hard they try once they have learned how to thread top to bottom. Of course those are also the same people who care enough to make damn well sure that the leader never comes into contact with the floor, so it is never an issue. ) The trick is turning the intermittent to a certain point in it's travel (not just the dead spot), then actually framing on the holdback sprocket, and working your way up from there. When you have reached the top, all of your loops are perfectly set. 10 seconds is plenty to thread a typical 35mm projector when done in this fashion...and that is not sacrificing "in frame" threading or exacting loop sizes either. Just a couple of days ago Ethan was visiting me in a booth and decided to secretly time me. He said I had threaded the entire platter and projector in under 30 seconds counting from the point I finished rewinding the media cleaner up until the timer was set. I didn't even know he was timing me, but I originally learned to thread down and after forcing myself for a week to thread "up" (to get past the aggravation of the awkwardness) I can now thread much faster than I ever could when threading from top to bottom. The people I train have usually never touched a piece of film before and they just don't know any different. To fully understand, you will just have to force yourself to do it for a few weeks until you get good at it. Then you will understand why it is a more efficient way to thread. Rarelly do I ever have to reopen a pad roller to resize a loop, for they are perfect the first time (which also saves wear on the arms).

Posted by Bill Langfield (Member # 818) on 05-25-2001, 11:09 AM:

I agree with Jason.

Every location I work at loops the leader
through projector rollers (top/bottom).

Then lace top to bottom.

Sometimes the film (leader)MAY touch
the floor, but floor should be clean.

There seems ongoing thought that bio floors
are DIRTY, I fail to understand that.
They should be mopped/vacuumed every night.

At the very least get one of those $2 static
mops and pass it over the the whole projection room, paying attentiomn to where the film might come close to the ground.

Film is a dust/lint magnet.
Remove the dust before the film finds it.

Bill.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-25-2001, 12:51 PM:

Bill Langfield said: "Film is a dust/lint magnet."

That was true before the introduction of Kodak's VISION Color Print film, which has a transparent conductive backing layer that greatly reduce the static charge that can attract and hold dirt to film. If you have an old triacetate or polyester print made before about 1998, compare it to a new print on Kodak VISION Color Print film. Quickly pull a piece of the film through your fingers to try to put a static charge on the film, and then hold it near cigarette ashes or dust. The old film will attract the dirt, much like the old static demo of putting a plastic comb through your hair and attracting things to it. The Kodak VISION color print film will not hold a static charge, and stays much cleaner.

Regardless, I do agree it is always good practice to keep any film away from dirty surfaces. Many threading leaders are "dust magnets" since they are NOT made on the new Kodak VISION stock.

Posted by George Roher (Member # 91) on 05-25-2001, 11:56 PM:

I learned to thread top down originally but switched to bottom-top threading. It was difficult and awkward at first, but after a while it got really easy. I can't thread in 10 seconds like Brad, but I can thread "up" as fast as I can thread "down". I only thread down now if I'm running reel to reel.

Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 05-26-2001, 05:02 AM:

Now, Im not trying to advocate letting the leader hit the floor or say that its not important here, but Ive always wondered...if you use filmguard would it matter since the film is constantly being cleaned?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-26-2001, 06:58 AM:

To answer your question briefly, yes. If the leader is coming into contact with the floor on every threadup there will be dirt accumulation no matter what form of cleaner is being used and it will wear out for practical use as leader prematurely.

Posted by Kyle Connolly (Member # 827) on 05-28-2001, 12:09 PM:

I have a problem. I worked over the weekend, and I tried threading bottom - top. It went well, and it doesn't take as long as i thought. The only problem is, i've talked to 2 of the 3 guys I work with, and they don't want to thread it that way. So, even if I were to continue to thread it up, it wouldn't matter. I tried to convince them, but they just won't (one of them has been a projectionist for 35 years). Does anybody have any suggestions?

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-28-2001, 12:20 PM:

As long as the threading leader doesn't come in contact with a dirty floor, it doesn't matter whether you thread bottom-to-top or top-to-bottom. But if their method puts film on the floor, challenge them to do it a better way! Or insist that the floor be damp mopped to pick up all dirt before they thread each show.

If you work in a theatre having enough screens to have multiple projectionists on duty at one time, organize two "teams", each with half the screens, and see which team can maintain the best presentation, including the cleanest pictures and best sound.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-28-2001, 12:23 PM:

Let's see what the options are...

#1 Just terminate them. (The preferred solution if you have the power, for you do not need people hard set in their ways like this in your booth.)

#2 See if they will thread following one of the acceptable alternatives. (IE: clamp the film with a clothespin before threading to keep the leader off of the floor, or place the film into the holdback sprocket before threading.)

#3 Give up and live with having a poor trailer presentation. Dirt WILL happen with this sort of threading.

This is precisely why I prefer to get some 16 year old kid who has never had a job a day in his life to replace projectionists. They don't have any bad habits to break, you don't have to listen to the "but I've done it this way for over two centuries and my presentation is wonderful" crap and not ever having a job before, they will do the job exactly as you tell them without thinking that they are having to do "too much work". Just as your projectionist was trained to dump the leader onto the floor with the mentality that it does not matter, these kids will leave the job one day with the mentality that film was not meant to be ran on the floor and will always be better projectionists for it.