Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Rejecting prints damaged in shipment...?

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Posted by Joe Schmidt (Member # 822) on 05-22-2001, 04:29 PM:

In a recent post on another subject, Bill Hooper wrote in connection with From Here to Eternity:

“That was a nightmare show when I ran it a few years ago. A very nice new print, but the shipping case had apparently popped open en route, the reels fell out, the evil black plastic shipping reel shattered, & whoever dropped it just jammed it - broken plastic reel pieces, film, & all - back into the case.

The sharp broken reel fragments & jamming did a number on the spooled print. The last reel had at least TWO breaks in the edge per layer around the reel for about 90% of its length. No perforation/edge-fixing tape, & 18 hours until the show, one show only, & it had to run on a platter. I spent forever sticking a little piece of splicing tape over the edge at each crack, & perforating it in the splicer.

When the last reel all ran through the projector without breaking going around a corner, I felt like I was ready for a drink & tranquilizer dart.

There is a real nice print of “From Here To Eternity” out there somewhere, with a bazillion little bits of splicing tape along its edges. I guess if I’d used a CineBug, I would have needed 2,000 ft. of tape.”

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In a case like this I believe it is better to advise “boss” that the last reel cannot be run due to the damage in shipping plus the equipment [single-proj. platter system] and let him cancel the show or try to get a replacement last reel sent emergency.

Years ago labels on shipping cans carried the message “USELESS IF DELAYED” meaning that if the film didn’t arrive until three days after the engagement it would simply have to be sent back.

These days when you receive anything that’s damaged in transit you have to let the shipping company know immediately in order to make a claim. When film cans arrive, open them before the delivery truck leaves, and at least look to see if contents visually seem OK.

As to all this cheap plastic stuff prints worth thousands of $$$$ are shipped on these days, it’s another example of beady-eyed bean counters with bubble brains even smaller than those of bureaucrats making micro-management decisions. Or sometimes it’s the bubble-headed secretary of the week trying to make brownie points by saving pennies.

Some experiences of replacing new prints wrecked by inadequate shipping cases might convince distributors to go back to proper metal exchange reels and metal cans from Greenboig’s Village.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 05-22-2001, 09:47 PM:

As with everything today, the "personal touch" is getting done less and less, because labor is (usually) a company's single biggest expense.

While some people would like to reject a print, many times that's just not an option. If there has been a lot of advertising for a film, (and especially if it is a one-nighter) an operator might have a tough time convincing management. You might think it's unplayable, but the manager might think it's just good enough. Sometimes he may honestly believe that; sometimes it may be pressure from upper management.

Films are usually left at a theater when no one's there; so that can't be given even a cursory inspection. And most times they arrive on opening day, allowing too little time to obtain a replacement before show time.

Most every release is now shipped on plastic reels, so distributors have already demonstrated their preference, regardless of the cost of the prints they hold.

For an old film like, “From Here to Eternity” what else could be done? Where would another print come from? This is just an example of a dope ruining a “few of a kind print,” and everyone who gets it after will have to suffer. Also, shipping cases rarely accidentally open up; I would suspect the previous operator didn’t close it correctly, and/or wanted to get out at night, and did the damage. Which leads me to another point; I feel most of the film damage that happens is from poor operators, not from processing labs. Certainly, we have all seen really weird things come out of labs, but generally they do pretty well, especially considering they are doing runs of 5000 prints.

John Pylak suggested that when you have a bad print, complain to the exchange/distributor (more than the shipper), regardless if you can get a replacement reel. I think it’s a good idea; if the same theater is noted for ruining prints, the distributor might start to charge them, and that will get some action.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-22-2001, 10:06 PM:

John Walsh said: "Certainly, we have all seen really weird things come out of labs, but generally they do pretty well, especially considering they are doing runs of 5000 prints."

The general level of quality is even more impressive when you consider that the labs sometimes receive the final cut negative only a week or two before those thousands of prints have to be in theatres.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 05-23-2001, 01:23 AM:

quote:
In a case like this I believe it is better to advise “boss” that the last reel cannot be run due to the damage in shipping plus the equipment [single-proj. platter system] and let him cancel the show or try to get a replacement last reel sent emergency.

That's a luxury some luxurious first-run houses might be able to afford.

This was a 2,000 seat PAC, one show only, part of a series of films, only shown on weekends in the summer. Cancel the film, you lose the show: not just the money, you likely reduce the number of people that come to the next film shown. Attendance at a summer film series increases as folks get into the expectation & habit of going to the show. Cancelling one is absolutely to be avoided, especially since films are being more marginalized by the PAC's.

They cancelled one for a hurricane once, I thought they were being over-cautious. The next weekend was light.

I wonder if the economic situation will become tighter to return to a sort of situation that existed in the late 1970's & 1980's: when bus & trucks were generally expensive & harder to come by, & revival movies at the old houses were pretty much paying the bills.

Posted by Steve Anderson (Member # 364) on 05-23-2001, 12:28 PM:

John P.,
When you receieve the film negative to start the printing process, is it a copy or the original. What are the steps for printing a feature film.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-23-2001, 12:55 PM:

The person who splices together the cut negative, based on the decisions made by the film editor, is the "Negative Cutter".

The cut negative is usually mostly original negative, spliced together with duplicate negative containing the effects. The lab then makes an "answer print" to fine-tune the color "timing" and check the overall quality. A "master positive" is then made, often on a "wet printer" to eliminate any negative scratches. For release printing, "duplicate negatives" are made from this master positive, and may go to various labs throughout the world for the final release printing.

After sound mixing, the (usually digital) sound masters are recorded onto an optical sound negative that can have all four sound formats on it (analog, DTS, Dolby Digital, and Sony SDDS). The continuous contact printer used for release printing has a head for printing the picture negative, and separate controllable light sources for each track on the sound negative.

"Show Prints" or "EK Prints" are usually made from the original cut negative, rather than a duplicate negative. Duplicate negatives are used for most release prints because prints are often made by several labs for worldwide release, and to reduce the risk of damaging the original negative during printing.

The Kodak website has a wealth of information:
Kodak Information on Film Systems and Printing
Kodak Camera Films
Kodak Post-Production and Print Films

Also, check out the Association of Cinema and Video Laboratories ACVL Handbook:
http://www.acvl.org/manual.htm

Here is a link to information about the printers used by many labs:
http://www.rti-us.com/bhp/

An excellent introduction to lab procedures is the book "Motion Picture Film Processing" by Dominic Case, Focal Press Media Manuals, ISBN 0-240-51243-X, TR88.2.C37, 778.5'32

Here is a link to a website that has a glossary of all the credits in a typical movie, including the "negative cutter" and "color timer":
http://tms.ecol.net/movies/whoplain.htm

Posted by Steve Anderson (Member # 364) on 05-23-2001, 01:46 PM:

Thanks John!
Great Information!!!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-25-2001, 06:32 PM:

There are many times I'd just love to "reject" a print, but don't have the option.

1. The print didn't arrive until Friday, so I can't pre-screen it.

2. The print arrived Thursday, and if I do get to pre-screen it Thursday nite and find problems, the replacement can't be shipped until Friday, meaning it won't arrive until Monday. We're usually a one-week town, but I will still, if necessary break down a print to put on a replacement for those remaining days if the damage is severe.

3. If I do request replacements, as often as not I'm told "There are no spare prints available."

4. If I receive a replacement, quite often it's in worse shape (or the same shape) as the print I got.

You know what the biggest problem in the film world is? The people out there who need to be reading the advice and procedures here on film-tech, aren't! Most of the people here already know the proper procedures, or are willing/trying to learn. It's these idiots who don't care that cause most of the problems!

(Rant mode off)

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-25-2001, 10:16 PM:

Mike said: "You know what the biggest problem in the film world is? The people out there who need to be reading the advice and procedures here on film-tech, aren't!"

Part of the solution is to spread the word about Film-Tech! Even if some of the "higher ups" don't want to bother, keep telling everyone else in the industry about Film-Tech as a great place to LEARN and SHARE solutions to problems. Even if the VP of Projection doesn't participate, hopefully enough of the district managers, field service engineers, managers, film delivery folks, other projectionists, etc. will, and be more understanding of problems.

Brad also says that there ARE quite a few "lurkers" in high positions who read Film-Tech regularly, and I also know of some personally. Even if they are afraid to register and participate, what we say here may get to the right person who can make a difference.