Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Victoria 5 Curved Gate

This is topic Victoria 5 Curved Gate in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002343

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-02-2001, 12:24 PM:

I was very impressed with the new Curved gate assembly for the Victoria5. Rock steady image
and it appears to be relativly gentle on the film as well
Any other feed back yet

Posted by Brent Otte (Member # 865) on 06-02-2001, 02:44 PM:

any pics?

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 06-02-2001, 06:15 PM:

Can it be retro-fitted to older, existing V5's?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-02-2001, 07:49 PM:

Yes it will fit but a dremel tool is needed to grind down the back casting.
The apperture changer is a motor now that mounts in the back so if you use the single pulse to the turret to flipflop it some relays will have to be added

Posted by Jonathan Haglund (Member # 807) on 06-03-2001, 03:19 AM:

How do I get one (five, actually)???
Gimmie phone numbers, part numbers, anything. I must have these! Oh the shaking is so bad...

-Jonathan

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 06-03-2001, 10:03 AM:

Sorry; another question I should have asked eariler.... Can these new gates also be fitted to V9's?

Thanks for the pictures, BTW!

What lever does what? I'm guessing the bottom (round) knob is film tension; the center lever is to open/close the gate.

I can't figure out what that smaller, flat lever is at the top, next to the knurled screw for the laterial guide rollers.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-03-2001, 10:52 AM:

It snaps the gate shut
Jonathan contact your dealer or our company Entertainment Equip. Corp 1800 448 1656 we can supply them (shamless plug)

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-03-2001, 11:36 AM:

Shameless plug Gordon

..........
We received the first unit at the first of the year for testing on a 68 foot wide screen with beautiful results. We have 15 more being installed during this month. Cinemeccanica will continue to manufacture the older pocket straight gate for customers who prefer it. The factory had been talking about this for years and finally released it.
The gate is easy to clean by removing the black screwnut on the upper alinement rail (visible in photo #2 nest to the "N") and pushing fully down on the opening lever. Our concern was losing the screwnut in a dark booth but it will not impair operation if it is not replaced.
The tension knob is variable without click stops to fine tune the steadyness vs film wear issues.
Sorry for the long post...but I am doing paperwork in my office to prepare a crew for a job-site and Film-Tech is usually on somewhere on one of our workstations........
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc.
tvpmiami.com
Cinemeccanica since 1976

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-03-2001, 12:17 PM:

I love the odd shameless plug now and then
We tested it on a very old V5 on a 40' screen and was very impressed
Also I must thank Richard who provided me with the photos since the ones I took got erased in the digital camera.
On the Vic 4 and Vic9 issue I don't think it will work since the apperture changer requires access right through the head through the gear compartment where a small motor is mounted. But then nothing is impossible

Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 06-24-2001, 11:34 PM:

I got to see these gates in operation in a new ten-plex this weekend. IMHO they are well worth the money. Unfortunately, there was no time to run RP-40 to do side-by-side comparisons, but,as Gord says, the picture steadiness was amazing!

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 06-26-2001, 06:19 AM:

Gordon,

We trialled a very early prototype 2 years ago (still on my shelf in the office) and found it promising. The unit is not as easy to thread as the straight gate, but any improvement in jitter and weave from Cinemeccanica is greatly appreciated. We'll have our first all curved gate multi open in a few months, I'll let you know how it goes on giant screens with huge light behind it.

David Kilderry

Posted by Jack Johnston (Member # 887) on 08-01-2001, 12:54 PM:

Gentlemen...thank you for the positive comments. The curved gate (part number D10329) may be retrofitted to any V5 in the field (sorry, will not fit the 9's or 4's) and, as was noted by the venerable Mr. Richard Fowler, has been implemented into our current manufacture. It cannot be used with a single lens turret. Higher wattage systems do require H2O cooling pipes, part number #D09293. You may obtain price & availability from your local cinema supply dealer. Thanx again for your support and with it we will continue to make a good thing better!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-01-2001, 01:09 PM:

Jack --- welcome to Film-Tech! Nice to have another equipment supplier "on board" with useful help and good advice. Give my regards to Vittore Nicelli.

Cinemeccanica article

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-01-2001, 04:30 PM:

Interesting article I particularly liked the last line
" hear people selling electronic cinema equipment saying that a lot of money will be saved by not
making prints, and that may be true, but they never seem to mention how much money will be spent on
set up and maintenance. It seems like when you really look at it, nobody will save any-thing at all."
Personally I don't think there will be any saveing but actually higher costs all around

Posted by Vernon Cramer (Member # 1181) on 01-27-2004, 08:26 PM:

Although this topic is somewhat old, we finally installed a curved gate on one of our Victoria 9s and the results are so remarkable I wanted to encourage anyone else with a Vic 5 or 9 that the curved gate is well worth the money. Everything we've run through it is virtually rock-steady on the screen, even with the tension set at the lowest setting. Ran our SMPTE focus loop and you had to look very closely to detect any movement at all.

Although it was noted somewhere else on this thread that the gate will not fit a Victoria 9, the curved gate assembly will actually fit if the projector has the newer two-lens turret (some minor grinding on the projector housing is required before the assembly will line up properly with the holes on the projector head). Unfortunately, the older three-lens turrets do not have enough clearance for the curved gate assembly.

If you have a Vic 9, 5, or even a 4 and have the newer two-lens turret but are using the old-style gate, the curved gate will make a world of difference in what you see on the screen and is well worth the investment.

Threading the newer gate is significantly different but after a threading a couple of test loops a few times I was getting quite comfortable with it. You also do have to watch the size of the top loop with the new gate when threading. However, these inconveniences are very, very minor when compared with the benefit of gaining an incredibly stable of the image on screen.

For all you Cinemeccanica fans with Vic 5s or 9s (and probably 4s) the curved gate is a must. I recommend it highly.

Posted by Jamie Sanson (Member # 1161) on 01-29-2004, 05:24 AM:

Hi Gordon I have just installed a new vic 5 with the curved gate and like you were very impressed with it's performance of the picture and the film. It is good to see that projection equipment manufactures are still working on there machines to make them better for all of us. Just a pic of the new vic 5 in action.

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 01-29-2004, 02:54 PM:

We invested in the new curved gate for Vic 5 a couple of
months ago. The picture quality is indeed better.

However, I noticed dirt getting stuck real hard on the
tension bands at the point where the film enters the gate.
I wondered what caused this, and when taking a very close
look I found out that the tension bands was lifting from
the upper part of the gate, with all preassure focused on
the point where the film enters.

So, tightening the bands until the film stops shaking isn´t
enough. You have to look through a magnifying glass to see
when the bands are tight to the gate all the way up. At least
to me it seems to be something wrong with the construction. Anyone else who have noticed this?

Thomas

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-29-2004, 02:56 PM:

Have noticed hard wax build up if the gate runs hot and needs to be kept cleaned off
or use filmguard and have no dirt in the first place [Big Grin]

Posted by Dave Callaghan (Member # 1544) on 01-31-2004, 02:53 AM:

John, when I clicked on the link for Cinemeccanica Article, the Kodak website stated that that page does not exist. The page was indicated to be:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/june99/nicelli.shtml

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-02-2004, 08:26 AM:

A .pdf copy of the article is here on Film-Tech:

http://www.film-tech.com/manuals/H5051.pdf (see page 9)

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 05-16-2004, 03:46 PM:

The new curved gate for the Vic 5 was a dissapointment.
I´ve used it for about 8 months. The locking mechanism
doesn´t work as it should. It´s either too tight or too loose,
no way to make it lock in the exact position.

The metal tension bands has been changed twice during these
8 months. The rounded knobs that presses on the bands above
the gate, makes them twist slightly inwards causing bad focus
on the sides of the image.

Also, cleaning the bands properly are almost impossible without
taking the whole gate off the projector.

I have now put the straight gates back (the long versions).
There´s no noticeable differens as for focus and steadiness.

Last week I heard in Denmark several theaters have put their
straight gates back, since they´ve had nothing but trouble
with the curved one.

Too bad, since this was a good intention. Perhaps it should
have stayed just a little longer on the drawing board?

Thomas

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-16-2004, 07:31 PM:

All the curved ones put in over here are still in place and in the theatres I deal with there is no complaints other than the tendancy to get a lot of buildup. Some have been 2 years on the first set of bands and one pair is in a film lab and they are still happy with it

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-16-2004, 09:58 PM:

I still can't understand WHY anyone would ever put in a VIC 5 to begin with..... Indeed they designed the curved runner wrong.... Shoulda been curved on its length, not its lateral dimension.

Mark

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 05-17-2004, 01:30 AM:

Lot of controversing comments here I see.
Here in Cyprus we have had excellent results with a few upgrades to some cinemas to install the curved gate. No more Shakemeccanica!! picture is frightening rock steady. It does built up though as Gordon has mentioned a lot. After each show, especially if the print is new, the projectionist has to clean the gate before rethreading very very well.
D.

Posted by Jamie Sanson (Member # 1161) on 05-17-2004, 02:13 AM:

All gates should be clean after every show it's just the meccanica's required a little more than some. But still a very good projector never the less. [thumbsup]

Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 05-18-2004, 09:09 PM:

Not a fan of the Vic 5. Kinoton leaves them behind as I have used both types of projectors and if was building a cinema Kinoton would be my choice.Anyone know what the new Vic 8s are like are they better than the Vic 5s?

[Cool]

Steve

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 08-01-2004, 04:09 PM:

If it can be of any use to anyone, this
is what I´ve done to "improve" the curved
gate:

First I took off the pushers above
the gate (I can´t understand what they´re
doing there in the first place), turned the
tension adjustment knob in half-way-position,
laced a loop of film in the machine, and
then tightened the bands with the adjustment
screew above the gate until the film stopped
shaking. For my two machines they ended up
with different angles. That´s what I call
precision made parts!

To prevent the annoying hard wax build up on
the hot tension bands, I added self adhesive
velvet bands on them. Isolates the film from
the hot metal bands - no more wax build up.
And makes the film run a little smoother.

It´s better, but I still think it´s a no-good
construction. Cinemeccanica should be able to
do better than this.

I too am curious to know if the Vic 8 still
gives a better image over the Vic 5 with the
curved gate?

Thomas

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-01-2004, 05:03 PM:

I would hardly consider the VIC 8's trap to be curved. Bent would be more like it. Its straight at an angle for the upper third and then bends and is straight to the bottom 2/3's. We have two VIC 8's still running that I service and the picture is generally excellent. They have 3kw lamps behind them. Interestingly both VIC 8's are fed film from 23 year old Norelco platters that have yet to be worked on.

Mark @ CLACO