This is topic Dolby isn't playing very nice... in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Heyward Garner (Member # 722) on 06-22-2001, 02:17 AM:
Dammit if I can't track anything better than a FOUR on my print og Atlantis on opening day. Same with Evoloution. Same with Swordfish. I know this question has probably been asked in this forum somewhere before, but that's a whole lot of info to sift through at 3:00 in the morning. Obvious soloutions: clean soundheads. Check. Clean prints. Check. Properly adjusted voltage on Dolby 700 penthouse. Check. So please, help me! Though I know it is possible, I have never EVER seen anything lower than a 2 on my units. And new prints tracking 4s, MOSTLY 5s, and an occasional 6 to F dropout, is just not cool... I don't know what else to do exception being a swiss army knife and a roll of duct tape!
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-22-2001, 02:23 AM:
I think you need for your tech to crack out his laptop and scope and perform a complete alignment on the reader. Is this the only SRD system you have in the theater, or do you have more?
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-22-2001, 03:10 AM:
I have a Dolby basement reader in a Christie projector. The theatre called me up when Atlantis opened, saying that it was dropping out.I hooked it up to DRAS and checked it out. Turns out the reader was a bit out of alignment but the print was also marginal quality.
Once I got it going good I left the thing hooked up when the movie started.
The test film got a score of 65-70 on the focus reading. (The best this machine has ever gotten.)
When the trailers started the focus went down to 50-60. Still not bad for this machine. The error reading was between 4 and 5.
When the featre started the focus went down to 40-45. The error reading went up to 5 and 6. When a splice would go through it would be on the verge of dropping out.
Judging by that I'd say that the print was marginal quality. That's what I put in my report anyway. I guess what you just said validates my report. (Unless there's something ELSE.
)
Posted by Heyward Garner (Member # 722) on 06-23-2001, 01:21 AM:
I have four CP 500 processors, and all four equipped with Cat. 700 penthouses. All of them seem to follow a trend, and it's almost like it's happened overnight. I was tracking 3-4s and then BAM. All four units are not working well. Go figure. I guess that's just their way of saying they don't like me very much. Our tech should be here within the month (July) and he will be well informed before he even makes it to town. Randy, I can't say too much about print quality because I lack the equipment to test such things. The picture on the aforementioned films is fantastic (thanks, Film Gaurd!). I can only assume that the problem lies within the readers because today both Dr. Dolittle and Fast & Furious were tracking bad numbers as well. Brand new prints. Look great. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-23-2001, 03:18 AM:
Like I said, the focus reading went way down when the feature started. The test film read great.
Also, when I set the test film so the azimuth read zero, the feature read -2. If I set the feature to read zero, the test film read +2. That's why I said it's got to be the print.The first thing I always do when I get a report of problems with a Dolby unit is check the LED levels. Since you don't have LEDs in yours that's not the case. BUT the lamps in yours could be getting old. When's the last time they were checked or replaced? That's a quick and easy way to find out what the problem is. If you replace the lamp and there's no change, you haven't done any harm. You have even done your tech a favor by eliminating an easy problem.
Another thing you could check is the cleanliness of your optics. You are probably pretty scrupulous about this but it couln't hurt to get a Q-Tip and give it a whirl.
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-23-2001, 03:02 PM:
It seems to me like the SR*D track on "Atlantis" was not printed very well. It would also stand to reason that there must be a good amount of digital to analog dropouts occuring with SDDS tracks on this print as well. This problem is one of the main reasons why I like DTS so much. The system is very simple and very reliable.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-23-2001, 03:23 PM:
Randy, what are you using as your test film? I've found the Dolby loops to be of varying quality.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-23-2001, 03:43 PM:
Dolby Tone, Cat 69T. Vintage 5/00.What I've been doing is taking a piece of brand new film and running it through several Dolby Readers and finding the average readings I get. Then I take a fine-tip SharpieŽ marker and write those numbers on the strip of film. When I do an alignment I can look at the numbers I get and know whether I've gotten it as good as it can be.
That piece of film will be used ONLY for Dolby alignments until I think it's getting too worn out, at which time I'll use it for something else and get a fresh piece for Dolby.
Sometimes I think I ought to use the Pink Noise film. It might have something to do with the background color of the film. (Red light & green film, y'know.) I just think Dolby ought to make a special test film on clear base just for Dolby reader alignment.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-23-2001, 03:57 PM:
I find I get the best results by splicing together several trailers printed at Deluxe Hollywood, as they print the best SRD tracks, and noting the "average" readings...then I select the one from the roll that is most "average" of them all and cut it up into tons of loops for alignment purposes. I am frequently able to achieve error readings of 0-3 consistently ever since I started aligning the readers with loops like this. (Also make sure to make those loops BIG!)When I align using the Dolby tone and p/n loops, the errors generally sit between 3-5 on regular prints.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-23-2001, 05:26 PM:
Hey! If nothing else, it certainly would be cheaper! And you know how cheap companies can be these days. 
I'm certainly going to give it a try. I have one Dolby System that just doesn't seem to want to behave itself. (Christie basement & DA-20 )
I do the base alignment with the scope, moving the "cell" in and out to get the highest output. There is just this one spot where it'll read right. If I move it just a fraction of a milimeter either way I lose it. Instead of getting a nice smooth trace with little ripples across the top I get these huge "mountain peaks". When I do get a good trace it'll work but the magnification reading on DRAS reads 108%. It seems to me that the "zone" should be bigger, allowing me to adjust the magnification to between 99% and 101%. Once I get that part set up I can get the rest of the alignments right but I never get above 70 on the focus. Other units I work on get readings that are consistently in the high 80's.
I have put on the O-ring sound drum, new bearings and the new lens. I fiddled around with flanged rollers on both top and bottom lateral guides. There is a new LED and a new regulator. I have changed all the belts and cleaned all the crud off the grears and pulleys. The best readings I can get are in the 4-6 range. Some of my other machines are running at 4 and below. This one's just got me totally peeved off.
At this point I'm willing to try just about anything.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-23-2001, 05:50 PM:
I always got the best results from a Christie basement reader at magnification of 101-102%. Have you checked your bearings? (Thread a film up a couple of perforations too loose in the soundhead and see if that bulge sits steady or is contantly changing.) That plays an incredible amount in respect to tracking. Also, beware that threading the soundhead even 1 perforation differently can have an effect on the reading. Don't forget to check the led intensity too (don't just put the power supply in and forget it). If this projector is in a large house with a high wattage lamp, double check the blower fan below the exciter box to make sure it isn't introducing a shake to the entire machine (just disconnect it to test). I'm sure there's more, but I don't have one of those machines in front of me right now to jog my memory.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-24-2001, 03:34 AM:
New bearings were installed when the O-Ring drum was installed. Also new bearings in the guide rollers. LED intensity was set right after the new LED and regulator were installed.Now I didn't think about the fan or the wattage of the lamp. It IS a large lamp (6K). What about the lamp heating the film? I didn't consider that. Next time I go take a crack at it I'll be sure to disconnect that fan. (Is it really all that necessary, even on a big lamp like that?)
The problem is when I do that first, basic alignment. You move the "cell" around till you get the best picture on the scope. I can get a good light output but when I do it's at 108% mag. If I try to move the cell closer to get a smaller picture I lose the light. The trace on the scope just collapses into nothingness.
Now here's the kicker! I was just at that theatre this evening. Prints are all moved around and there's a print of Fast & Furious in there now. The readout on the DA-20 is showing an average of 3 to 4 with occasional spikes as far as 2 and 5.
At this point I'm just going to leave well enough alone. I know I'll be just falling asleep one night and it'll hit me... AHA!!!
Posted by Tom Kroening (Member # 201) on 06-24-2001, 08:36 PM:
Ahh, our fast and furious is tracking about the same. Not over 5 though. Is that software to adjust the penthouse reader freely available?
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-24-2001, 10:29 PM:
The software, DRAS (Dolby Reader Alignment Software), is available from this site in the manual/download section.DRAS is only a "readout" program. It will show you how the system is performing but there is no way to make adjustments with it. Those adjustments need to be done by tweeking the reader itself. Furthermore I wouldn't dare make adjustments to a reader with DRAS alone. I have been shown that there are times when the software will say one thing and the scope will say another. I have been told, on no uncertain terms, to trust the SCOPE first. Once you have the system set up and running by using the scope, DRAS can be used as a quick check to tell you how things are holding out between "full" alignments.
In one sentence... Use DRAS as an indicator, not an adjustment tool.
If you have the CP-500 software, beware, you can make adjustments to the system and you WILL F*** things up if you aren't careful. If I came into a theatre to "fix" a CP-500 that wasn't working right and I found that somebody had been hooking up a computer to it and had messed up the parameters, you can bet heads would roll!
Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 06-25-2001, 01:10 AM:
OK, I think I'm missing something here. What is this "O-ring drum" you're all talking about and does it apply to Simplex sound-heads?
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-25-2001, 01:42 AM:
Nope. O-Rings are purely a Christie thing.Somebody decided that the reason they were having such a hard time getting a fix on the Dolby track was that the film was slipping on the sound drum. In order to "fix" that they cut a groove around the inboard edge (circumference) of the drum and inserted a rubber O-Ring in the slot. The idea is to give the drum more traction.
But, Hey! I just do what the boss tells me to do...
Posted by Heyward Garner (Member # 722) on 07-08-2001, 11:52 PM:
Hmmmmmmmm... So I should call my tech and have him order new lamps for me, so he has one less thing to mess with...? They aren't but 2 years old. However if that is enough time to make them go "THPthpthphtp" then okie dokie. The voltage is properly adjusted, I don't believe that to be the problem. The bearings... I prepped the soundheads a little "off" of my norm, both more loosely and more tightly, with worse results than I have with my "normal" operation. =( No fun. My tech should be in within the month, so we shall see what goes...
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-09-2001, 07:03 AM:
Your lamps in a cat700 are 2 years old? If so, order and change them out with new lamps...then call your tech if that dosen't clear things up for you. Odds are it will.
Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 07-09-2001, 06:38 PM:
Although a bulb might look fine and read in bewteen the proper operating voltage, If you compare and old bulb to a brand new one youll notice that the reflective coating breaks down or subdues and softens over time. Changing a fresh bulb at least once a year is recommended. Changing them twice a year before summer and xmas break followed by a good A and B chain is preferred
Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 07-09-2001, 06:51 PM:
More to add........the biggest problem that ive come across with DD are light issues. I never second guessed the age of my halogen lamps...i just changed them cause that eliminates a horrible culprit when a-chaining. also those horrible horrible horrible component engineering<sorry guys> basement readers with the "light pipe" that bends into almost a ninety degree angle.......grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!! I recommend chaning those light pipes out every two years. they tarnish and blacken over time making, again, light an issue!!! when i saw the DUAL LED models <C.E. and Kelmar> I yelled Eureka!!!!!!!!! THE LORDeth set me free!!! Now i only find that on the new CAT-701 penthouse readers the actual bracket that holds the LED is sometimes slightly loose and moves ever soo slightly as to throw you achain off. A concious projectionist, however, can help prevent it. It almost seems like the bracket is glued on somehow and not well secured or attached. RORY