This is topic SHISTIE Projectors in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 06-30-2001, 05:00 AM:
Deal All,
I am wondering why do more and more cineplexes keep on upgrading their equipment to the magnificent SHISTIE projectors (CHRISTIE). I mean. What is the good thing about them (if there is anything good about them). My boss in his new Cineplex is determined to install CHRISTIE projectors. Why not choose something more reliable like KINOTON?
Just asking
Demetris Thoupis
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 06-30-2001, 09:58 AM:
I would guess that cost is an issue. Kinetones are a well-made projector, but is more expensive. And when you are doing a, say, a 18 screen multiplex, it's that extra cost - times 18.If you think you can get him to change his mind, perhaps you can go back through past postings, (at Film-Tech) copy and print out comments regarding both projectors.
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 06-30-2001, 11:48 AM:
Keep in mind that many big companies hire professional buyers who ususally know very little about the product they are buying. All they see is the up front $$ cost, w/o considering long term product reliability and replacement parts cost. I was told that Century Theaters was in some type of exclusive contract w/ Christie, and recently renewed this contract. Basically, Christie undercuts the prices of their competitors and sells the console,projector and platter as a package. I tried to find out what this "package" costs, but was not successful. Christie also has a better customer relations/tech support department which I believe Strong lacks. I think that Christie will actually come to the "site" to install equipment. Sometimes I question just how good their tech departments are, but lord knows they need them with the P-35GPS being as !@#$% as it is! Actually, I think that the AW-3 and SLC consols are decent, but could use some quality improvements. Christie makes their profit by overcharging for replacement parts, but those may not cost you anything depending on your warranty. Example, look at how much they charged for those douser blades that warped all the time, and the replacement cost. However, I guess that they are expermenting w/ other materials to help minimize/eliminate this warping. I also understand that Christie is more willing than their competition to listen to customer complaints/suggestions and impliment design changes. I have also been told that the P-35GPS is an easier machine for unexperienced 'projectionists" to operate and conduct minor repairs on.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-30-2001, 12:07 PM:
Kinoton is usually very competative now in price with the PK60 machines and they are far more durable and idiot proof to run than most
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-30-2001, 12:33 PM:
Christie projectors are very particular, but once you work on them a bit, they become very friendly. I've been having less and less complaints from them as Christie has been making upgrades based upon customer feedback. Pulleys, basement readers, gate bands, dousers, etc...all of which and more Christie has been making improvements to. With digital cinema so prominent on the horizon, they could pretty much just dump all R&D on the projectors, but they are not doing that.
Posted by Mike Judge (Member # 558) on 06-30-2001, 03:16 PM:
Will, I had a Strong tech come to town for my theatre's opening, and we're only a 12 screen. I've never had a problem dealing with them, and I've actually been quite pleased when I've had to deal with them, which isn't that often thank god!
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 06-30-2001, 04:41 PM:
Well,
This is the second cineplex my boss is opening in Cyprus and since he installed Christie projectors in the first, he will continue install Christie projectors because of the great VALUE they have!YEAH RIGHT. Anyway. Personally I find Christie a nightmare to thread. Also they are suppose to be maintenance free while they are the most maintenance needed machines in the market. Their lamphouse is good though and their platters are considered the best in the platter. TOO BAD they can't improve their projectors to the maximum. I always prefer my Cinemeccanica VICTORIA 5 projector 
See ya all
Demetris Thoupis
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-30-2001, 07:02 PM:
The Kinoton PK60 is extremely price competitive over here in the states. I just quoted a job with them. Overall, as far as I'm concerned there is no other projector any longer other than the Kinoton that I would install new.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by David Whitbeck (Member # 894) on 06-30-2001, 07:08 PM:
So then what's the verdict? My little 2-plex uses Strong platters and Simplex 35s. I like the 35s but they are due for some maintenance, leaky bastards. Our new owner seems to be fond of Christie and we are on the verge of expansion so I would like to know the way to go.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-30-2001, 07:35 PM:
Simple tell the owner to look at the european options suchas Kinton Cinemecanica and Ernamann
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-30-2001, 11:15 PM:
Hey! Don't knock those Christie projectors!I just bought a new car with a sizeable downpayment and I expect to be able to make DOUBLE payments on it.
All of this is thanks to Christie projectors!
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-30-2001, 11:25 PM:
If you currently have Simplexes and like them....stay with them. It is that simple. The current Simplexs coming out of Strong are doing quite well for us. They have addressed the leaking situation even more in recent years. Personally, I have never had any real grief with Simplexes leaking oil...they seep a little but so what? If it stays off the film, it doesn't bother me. I'll take seeping projectors any day over belt breaking ones! The Simplex is a rather low cost projector to keep running too. Steve
------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 07-01-2001, 05:30 AM:
There Are only two brands one cinema should consider installing. KINOTON is the first and Cinemeccanica is the second. Anything else is a waste of money. Forget Christie. You need hours and hours of dedication in the maintenance. Of course these projectors are much cheaper and you GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. That is the reason why they should be renamed to SHISTIE projectors!
Demetris Thoupis
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-01-2001, 08:35 AM:
Actually here in the states the Kinoton PK60 and Christie are priced almost the same. This is even with basement digital and 2 lens turrett. The PK60 is unparralled for picture steadiness...the Christie is not even on the map in that department yet.
As far as Simplex's go, replace the main drive shaft seal and the rear gaskets and that should take care of the leaking. When replacing the shaft seal its best to get the whole shaft seal kit from your dealer as sometimes the seal has worn a groove into the outer diameter of the drive gear and the new seal will just be chewed up in a short time. Get the new molded rubber door gasket from Strong. Forget the older medical tubing gaskets that are glued in place! Simplex's are great machines. My #2 choice.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-01-2001, 03:42 PM:
You've got to be kidding...A Shakameccanica over a Simplex or a Century, for that matter? I'll take a Simplex over just about anything. My results with new PR-1014s this year have been nothing short of outstanding with picture steadiness that would rival the best of European offerings. The Kinoton PK-60 and FP-30 series are indeed outstanding but certainly not the only choice. If you like Century, then great results can be had from them too. Steve
------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-01-2001, 08:27 PM:
As always, I'll put in a good word for Simplex X-Ls and Century SAs and JJs (and Cs!). They may not be the best possible choice, but they're certainly far from the worst. Both are easy to thread and maintain and, at least in the US, parts are (relatively) cheap and easy to get. Personally, I am very partial to the Century design.
With so many great projectors on the market (Simplex, Century, Kinoton, etc.), it really blows my mind that anyone would waste money on Christie machines.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-01-2001, 09:16 PM:
Well considering that the original post is from europe I would say all things considered economically I would ujest a eruopean machine just because of the ease of importing parts within the european community
Posted by David Whitbeck (Member # 894) on 07-01-2001, 10:16 PM:
The only machine I've ever used is a Simplex and the worst thing we've had happen with them is one of the pulleys going bad (if you don't count the intermittent going out.) Still, I must say that I do like them quite a bit.
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 07-01-2001, 11:45 PM:
The best machines are: Norelco AAII (DP70), Simplex XL/1015/1050/Millennium,et al., all Centurys except the H/HH, Brenkert 40,60,80,100... Boy it would be great if someone bought the Brenkert tooling and patants and began producing modern-style Brenkerts based on the original mechanicals.... -Aaron
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 07-02-2001, 01:42 AM:
Speaking of projectors,
Has anyone ever heard a brand called MICROTECHNICA?? Does anyone know any background about these projectors. Also I've often heard that the English CALLEE or KALLEE or whatever were considered good projectors. Also. JOE. What's your opinion on the whole CHRISTIE matter?
Demetris Thoupis
Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 07-02-2001, 03:13 AM:
OH NO! now youre gonna get joe started on christie ;-)
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-02-2001, 03:25 AM:
Like I said somewhere else, Christie has made several improvements to their projectors, all of which I have not yet seen. So it would be unfair to judge them at this moment. The improvements that they have made, however, sound very promising.If Christie's projector turns out to be a real kick ass machine when all is said and done, then my review will have to be updated.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-02-2001, 12:54 PM:
The Micro I think makes a portable called Microcine and probably is the same company that made the technirama machine back in the 50's
Kalee is a british firm that in conjunction with Gaumont made the most monstoruos projector the GK21
It is a machine you either like or dislike but it was ahead of its time
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-02-2001, 12:58 PM:
As far as Simplex leak problems, overfilling also causes leakage. I have seen these machines run w/o any leakage problems!A story about my Simplex E-7. When I got this machine, it had been in storage for some time and was FILTHY! However, it was running when it was pulled from the theater. I figured that all it would need was a good cleaning and reassembly, as it was very smmoth in operation when turned over by hand. After I disassembled it, I was amazed at how a machine w/ sooo many worn out parts could work so well! A real tribute to the designers, engineers, machinists of yesteryear! Heaven help you if God forbid just 1 little thing should crap out on a Christie!
One neat little thing that I have noticed with the Christie Ultramittent is a "snapping" sound that it makes, as if the gate/ trap band tension was too tight. Our "tech" said that this was normal for a Christie. Anyone else notice this problem?
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-02-2001, 01:14 PM:
I have had this problem on at least 3 Ultramittents. We had to replace them because they were so loud that they could be heard in the auditorium. I'm not sure if Christie has done any work on the Ultramittent design since then.
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 07-02-2001, 01:16 PM:
I'll second Aaron's statement about the Brenkert's. Mine are built like a tank, have a great picture, but the lack of readily availalble parts makes me lean toward my Simplex XL. ------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Nashville, Tennessee
(Drive-In Theatre - Start-Up)
Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 07-02-2001, 01:46 PM:
As you can see from his latest post. Joe "Nose" what he is talking about.
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-02-2001, 02:55 PM:
All I will say about Christie is this.How long has the motion picture been around? So generally speaking, with over a century of experience, it is generally known what works, and what does not work. Generally speaking, projectors have been doing the same thing the same way for years! With todays R and D and CAD capabilities, there is no excuse to produce and market something as bad as the P-35GPS! Also consider that the equipment can be simulated and tested on computer before it is ever produced. Yes, Christie has made attempts to improve the machine, but there is no excuse why these problems should not have been addressed during the design stage! As a machinist and engineering student, I would be embarrassed to admitt having a hand in the design/construction of this machine!
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-02-2001, 05:43 PM:
I like to make this metaphor about projectors:Most projectors are built with contruction techniques similar to a brick and steel building. They depend on the strength of the materials used to hold each component in place. It works on the sheer brute strength of the materials used.
The Christie projector is built like the Skydome. It depends on the principle of "tensegrity". The push/pull forces of each component are balanced against all the other components to hold them in place.
It's a "push" philosophy versus a "pull" pholosophy. I think it's a potentially good design but, like the Skydome that collapsed under the weight of a few feet of snow because of a failure of just one of its supporting cables, the Christie projector can seem to literally fall apart if just one part of it is even slightly out of adjustment. Therefore, the operator/technician of a Christie has to really be on the ball when it comes to taking care of it. In certain circumstances, it requires an "about-face" when thinking about repair/maintanence philosophies. I have found that this is where most of my difficulties lie when trying to figure out how to solve a problem.
All this having been said, I think the design of a Christie projector is generally sound. It's just the execution of that design leaves a lot to be desired. Some people have mentioned the use of aluminum pulleys, for example. I don't know where they got that idea. I wouldn't have done that if I was building a projector. Just about every time I am presented with a new problem about a Christie I seem to ask, "Why the heck did they do THAT?"
I get the impression that Christie had a good design for their projector but it somehow fell apart when they tried to bring it to market. Perhaps they tried to rush things too much? I agree that they have begun to solve a lot of their problems but that leaves the owners of "older" equipment in the position of having to go back and fix all of these problems by installing various and sundry "upgrade kits". That's time consuming and it can also get pretty darned expensive when you have several hundred of them to "upgrade". I always get the feeling that I'm being used as a guinea pig when it comes to using Christie projectors because I am always being told to upgrade this part or readjust that part according to their "new" specs.
Maybe later on, Christie will get all the bugs worked out of their equipment but for now, I'll take a 50 year old Simplex or Century over a brand new Christie any day.
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-02-2001, 05:55 PM:
RandyHERE HERE!! Tis Great to have some 
on hand when working on a Christie! Helps prevent a sledge-hammer-fest! "Der machin is caputen, grabben mit der fingerpoken!"
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-02-2001, 07:40 PM:
Will said:
"Hell, even Christie admits that it is an inferior product."I am curious as to who at Christie you are quoting?
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-02-2001, 07:42 PM:
Will,You need to print this out and post it on the wall right above your Christie projectors! Actually, you should post it on the wall even if they aren't Christies!
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-02-2001, 08:03 PM:
I am quoting P-35GPS-the name (it has to stand for something !)Thanks for the whole Gremanic Quote! When I was going to college to study aviation maintenance, our professors kept warning us about properly using equipment! We were specifically warned about the proper use of test benches. We had a paticular incident with gyros! We were repeatidly told and warned to only run-up gyros on test benches and not on shop air lest they overspin and explode! Well, sure enough, two dipshits used the shop air to run one up. It overspun and exploded like a shrapnel bomb-killed one and amputated the other's hand! So, besides stepped up warnings, our professors posted that message all over the place!
And yes, I do not like the P35GPS!
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-02-2001, 08:10 PM:
Will, If you do not like a particular product that Christie or any other equipment manufacturer makes (for example, the projector), then feel free to express your comments. If you DO like a product out there, then please also feel free to express your comments. However, in the future please refrain from wording your posts to be misleading as you did by implying that the Christie representatives believe their projectors are an "inferior product".
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-02-2001, 08:19 PM:
I apologize if you found that comment inapproperiate. That portion of my post has been deleted.
Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 07-02-2001, 08:38 PM:
Here is my 10 cents worth,even though I have never used a christie and only seen pics of them I find these comments interesting.Here in oz there are several in use most at Hoyts I believe.The reports from collegus here is that they have no probs with them,and even Some techs say that they are fine.I would like to use one to make my own decision,Im only going on what ive been told. One of our company plexs has then so perhapes I might get the chance on day.All projectors have faults even my Kinoton FP 50Ds.Steve 
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 07-03-2001, 03:15 AM:
The only faults I find with Kinoton is first the control panel, which is located in front of the projector and not on the side and secondly the fact that most of the setting up has to be done through PC e.g. intermittent e.t.c. But no serious problems with those projectors. Installed them at the new RIO cinemas in Limassol here in Cyprus and planning in offering Photos in the pictures section. Just hang on guys.
Demetris Thoupis