Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: New THX Trailer... It's out there...

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Posted by Ted Costas (Member # 473) on 07-02-2001, 06:05 PM:

What do you all think?

Yes, it's short. Yes, it's made by the same guy that did the T2 DVD Trailer.

Let me know some feedback, and I'll let you know some of the extras we put into it. Aw, heck with that. I'll tell you now. Every trailer is an Original Negative Print. We saved a generation by out-putting several Original Negatives, then we printed off them directly. No IPs, no INs, just original Negatives and their prints. Hope you all like it.

Yours,
Ted Costas
Manager, THX Theatre Alignment Program

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-03-2001, 06:06 AM:

Ted said: "Every trailer is an Original Negative Print. We saved a generation by out-putting several Original Negatives, then we printed off them directly. No IPs, no INs, just original Negatives and their prints. Hope you all like it."

In effect, these trailers are from a "digital intermediate". For now, it's a more costly way of making the printing negatives, but it eliminates several stages of printing, and should greatly improve steadiness because it never would involve printing a short pitch master positive to a short pitch duplicate negative, which can cause printer slippage. Recording a >2K digital image directly onto a short pitch printing negative and then contact printing it onto long pitch print film is capable of excellent quality:
Digital Intermediate

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 07-03-2001, 09:38 AM:

John, out of curiosity, why can't a gate with a flat plate with non-tapered sprockets be used to solve this problem? The original technology was designed when stepper motors were unheard of.

The second question that begs asking is "Will Kodak ever provide a process where the output can be a negative developed with the full range of a positive?" Digital output directly to a first generation print would eliminate that first negative. Digital can output with values reversed, eliminating the need for a reversal process for the film.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-03-2001, 10:21 AM:

Jerry asked:

"Out of curiosity, why can't a gate with a flat plate with non-tapered sprockets be used to solve this problem? The original technology was designed when stepper motors were unheard of."

The printing speed would still be much slower than a continuous contact printer, where the original and raw stock are wrapped around a 64-tooth sprocket, requiring a "short" pitch original and "long" pitch raw stock to minimize printer slippage. Step printers print a few frames per second, continuous contact printers print a few metres per second. Pulling the two films in contact through a straight gate has not caught on, probably because intimate contact was difficult to maintain.
Tutorial on Printing
Film Perforations and Printing

"The second question that begs asking is "Will Kodak ever provide a process where the output can be a negative developed with the full range of a positive?" Digital output directly to a first generation print would eliminate that first negative. Digital can output with values reversed, eliminating the need for a reversal process for the film."

Again, speed and throughput are the issues. Today's laser recorders still take seconds per frame:
ArriLaser Film Recorder
Kodak Cineon Lightning II Laser Film Recorder
Kodak CineSite Film Recording Services

Higher recording speeds and even greater resolution are likely. Recording directly onto print film would be , since print film is very sharp and almost grainless:
Kodak VISION Color Print Film Data

Look at the Modulation Transfer Curves (sharpness) and Diffuse RMS Granularity Curves (Graininess) of 2383.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-03-2001, 12:58 PM:

Allright Ted, no one else is responding, but you want honest responses so sit down 'cause here it comes.

Two beefs with the trailer. First beef:
The sound is still not on any dts discs that I have seen yet. That's bad, very bad. I assume this will be corrected shortly, though.

Second beef:
It is way too short! I don't want to ruin it for anyone who hasn't seen it yet, but it starts out with low thunderstorm rumbling that does a very good job of getting people's attention. After 10-15 seconds or so the sound morphs into the classic "deep note" tone that is familiar with the THX logos. There's only one problem...by the very instant the "deep note" becomes fully up to pitch, the audio is already fading out! A trailer that begins extremely promising and looks to be the best THX logo ever is ruined by forcing it to end early. The visuals are fantastic. The audio mix is fantastic. However, this trailer needs to be a good 15 seconds longer, and at least 10 of those seconds must be devoted to the "deep note" being substained at full intensity. That's what people want to hear and the way the audio fades out early on this one makes people (including myself) feel cheated.

So I am sad to report that I am no longer running the Cavalcades. I am back to the classic THX Broadway. I still get applauds from the Broadway as the Cavalcade is not as impressive with it's current length. Sorry, but the trailers need to be extended and shouldn't have that rushed feeling.

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 07-03-2001, 01:34 PM:

My favorite THX trailer is the one with the THX logo "breaking down" and the little robot coming in and "fixing it". The "Moo Can" one gets a lot of laughs, and I really like it too. I like all the THX trailers, but I feel that the THX trailers would be great if they were extended to approximately one minute lengths and had cute little story lines. Note that if this were done, the trailers would have to be changed very often to avoid a "Pepsi Girl" type of response.

I'm not being critical of the THX trailers here. I think the THX trailers are an opportunity for THX to get really creative and do some really neat, cool stuff. Think of it -- people might want to go see a movie solely to see "the cool new THX trailer". It's not far-fetched, since many people went to see "Wing Commander" to see the new Star Wars Episode I trailer!

It's good to see that you're still around, Ted!

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-03-2001, 02:39 PM:

Oh please no more "cutesy" logos!!! They are funny the first time and then they get really old and lame quickly.

And the obvious, no more "rushed" logos. The Broadway 2000 logo was like that too. It's so short, why even put it on?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 07-03-2001, 07:02 PM:

I saw the new "Cavalcade" trailer on the front of "A.I." --unfortunately, no digital sound on the DTS discs. It sounded pretty decent in Dolby SR though.

As for the visuals, the thunderstorm and globe thingy is fairly cool. But I thought the trailer finished up far too similar to the customized THX trailer on the "Terminator 2: Judgment Day" Ultimate Edition DVD. The same exact chrome morphing effect was reused on this new trailer. Same, slightly cheezy, sparkly blue border that resolves itself way too fast. Typographic design could have been better as well. Overall, I am just wishing the "Cavalcade" trailer had a more original concept overall rather than seeming like a re-hash of the "T2" trailer.

I made the suggestion sometime back that Lucasfilm THX should do a different trailer, like putting the audience under a C-5B Galaxy cargo jet as it takes off --for a jaw dropping fly-over surround effect. These things fly over my house on certain occaisions as they do touch and go approaches at Fort Sill. There is no other sound on the planet quite like a C-5. The engines give out an almost beautiful sounding scream at the top end, a really different turbine whirr through the mid-range and downright rib rattling bass on the bottom end. No movie I've seen with a C-5 featured has ever used the correct sound, they just use some standard jet noise. There's a bunch of C-5 Galaxy jets (along with C-17's that sound almost as impressive) stationed at Altus Air Force Base nearby. Anyway, that is one simple idea for a THX clip.

I liked the original look and straight-forward simplicity in design with regard to the "Cimarron" and "Grand" trailers. Those two clips remain my favorites to this day. The graphic design in those clips is superior to any of the other THX trailers. The raw viseral feel of those clips is also un-equaled. The tunnel of lights from "Cimarron" is just too cool (why isn't there a DTS track for this one on the discs??????). Furthermore, Lucasfilm THX needs to use the "Cimarron" and "Grand" trailers on occaision with their THX Digital Mastering DVD program. The "Broadway" trailer is just too overused. It is a nice clip but it is getting to be a bit boring.

Speaking of boring format trailer snipes, I am wondering when DTS is going to get on the ball and do some more trailers. The "Sonic Landscape" piano trailer is fine for a lot of dramas, but it damned sure did not have any place on the "Jurassic Park" DVD. It is also not all that great to slap the piano trailer on the front of an action movie, like "Final Fantasy" or "Planet of the Apes". The flying disc trailer is the only good one to use --if you have any good copies of it stored in your trailers cabinet. I would have figured DTS would have more trailers made by now, especially since their piano trailer now seems to be getting played more than any other on DVDs (think about all those Dolby/DTS dual 5.1 DVDs like "Gladiator" where DTS is the only one with a trailer and not Dolby Digital). Geez, even SDDS had more trailers made after that first one.

Posted by Christopher Duvall (Member # 284) on 07-03-2001, 07:18 PM:

Since some of you are putting your 2 cents on favorites...my favorite one is the Simpsons THX trailer. That one will never get old to me...

------------------
Chris Duvall
General Manager
Regal Cinemas Colonnade14
Las Vegas, NV

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-03-2001, 07:41 PM:

Do theatres have to order the trailer? The place where I've been filling in recently didn't get them. The most recent one we have is Broadway 2000.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-03-2001, 08:03 PM:

I believe that THX, Dolby, and DTS trailers are free-I may be wrong. At my old theater, we ran all sound format trailers. We finally quit running DTS and SRD because we were constantly moving prints between screens-each having a different sound system, and the never ending trailer changes became a pain in the wahoo! The only exception was SDDS. They did charge for their sound format trailers, and we quit running them when the ones we had had become worn out. Our theater did not want to spend the money on SDDS trailers

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 07-03-2001, 10:03 PM:

I'd love to comment on this, but the Marcus Theatre here (with 6 THX-approved screens) doesn't believe in showing either THX or sound system trailers. They advertise in the newspaper and have the THX logo on the theatre entrance, but no trailers.

I wish THX would do like Dolby did and put out a DVD with all of their trailers. Maybe the profits could go to George Lucas' Education Foundation.

Mark Lensenmayer

Posted by Heyward Garner (Member # 722) on 07-08-2001, 11:33 PM:

Ted, I think it's decent. Like everyone else, it begins with a VERY promising thunderstorm. The visuals are spectacular, but then it's over. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Needs to be longer. Need to expand on the THX sound. Expanding on the thunderstorm wouldn't be bad, either. =) That's pretty cool...

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-09-2001, 01:39 PM:

I wish DTS would come out with new trailers more often. One new trailer in 9 years is pitiful. And Will, to answer your comment above, no they are NOT free (at least, WE paid for ours!)

They SHOULD be free, though.

Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 07-09-2001, 06:34 PM:

Hi TED!!!!
I rather enjoyed the succinct yet effective trailer myself, simply cause its about time a new THX trailer came out <kinda like Episode 1..I was desperate for a STARWARS MOVIE> hehe j/k Good job on the trailer! I think the public will enjoy it despite comments above on its "short-falls" <editing and production critiques are counter productive and cross into challenging someone's "artistic expression">
I really think guys there at Lucasfilm made the trailer that way as to try to divert from the loud super action trailers as to keep in spirit with the sound levels being brought down with trailers and all. I think you guys were smart as to now you wont have as many people plugging their ears when they see the THX symbol on the screen and have MORE of a follwing. Its about showing the Quality of a THX theater and not its potential <100db+ blue note simpsons tooth shattering tone> I think some thought went into your trailer and contrary to "rush it out" critiques above I know for a FACT it wasn't a rushed job.

If you dont mind would you please explain the trailer situation as to availability, entitlement<who can get a THX trailer>,method for ordering trailers, important: how often one can receive trailers per "certified screen", wait/delivery time/backordered trailers <happened to me all the time when ordering them>, price, etc etc.

I've come to find out that getting THX trailers are an "ordeal" or tough for many G.M's, projectionists, technicians to request and many just dont know how. You don't know how many theaters I visited in the past that were THX certified and A. never showed a single THX trailer B. didn't know they "could" show THX trailers C. Didn't know "how" to get THX trailers or D. their exixting trailers were just so damaged and old <years recyling them> that it was embarassing to see them on screen. oooooooohh nothing like a four year old "Tex" trailer in scratchy, poppy, analog SR......too old it never thinks again of ever playing in digital. Then first thing an old used THX trailer does as it wears down over time is the Digital sound start to fail including time code <longer wear down period required of course for T.C> then the picture quality becomes "very" apparent as compared to the brand new weekend opener trailers and movie it was built up with. I mean it becomes very obvious when you see the brand new "Friday night opener" movie show the gleaming, liquid, colorful crystal clear trailers followed by the scratchy, poppy analog sound whilst seeing platter scratches and the like just raining down over poor TEX. My point is THX trailers should be handed out like "pez"!!! Some theaters manage to preserve their THX trailers and in good presentable condition but they are too far and in between. Keeping quality up is in everyone's best interest!!

Rory

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-09-2001, 06:40 PM:

Rory wrote:

quote:
I think some thought went into your trailer and contrary to "rush it out" critiques above I know for a FACT it wasn't a rushed job.

Rory, how do you know this for a FACT? Knowing something as fact requires some kind of first hand evidence or proof. Just curious.

Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 07-09-2001, 06:53 PM:

Joe Redifier!

Simply put........yes! I know first hand is all I can say.
Sorry I can't add more....would love to.

Rory

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-09-2001, 07:05 PM:

Rory,

Did I miss something in the thread? Where has someone said that the work on the trailer was "rushed"? All I remember reading was MY comment that says the ending of the trailer seems rushed to hurry up and not let it play on screen for too long (20 seconds or so). The only other thing I can think of in terms of a "rush job" would be that the sound is still not on any dts discs. I don't feel any sound logo should be released until it is being included on the discs. Please elaborate.

Posted by Ted Costas (Member # 473) on 07-12-2001, 07:22 PM:

Hey now!

Great comments. Let me answer a few questions. First, if you are a THX Certified Theatre, you should have received a new trailer, automatically. If not, darn it, call us and request one. We don't send out trailers as often as I'd like, but if you have a trailer that hasn't been treated with the "Film-Tech touch" of an expert film handler, call us and we'll send you a new one. We want our trailers to look and sound as good as you do. Our Policy: Each certified THX screen gets up to six trailers per year (per screen) for free. So call us if you need new ones. After that, as punishment for poor handling, we charge for any requests over six in a year.

Yeah, I wanted it longer to, Brad. I agree it needs another 15 seconds to be perfect. Unfortunately, as you can see, I don't get everything I want... But I must say, we have gotten requests from Exhibitors to shorten our trailers... so alas, "you can't please everybody." But Brad, it's a darn good 26 seconds. Give it another try. Short but sweet is how I put it.

Mark L., no promises here, but we may have a DVD with the Trailers in the near future... did I say no promises... good. Now don't get me in trouble.

And, the similarity to the T2 customized DVD Trailer... well, we liked it so much we asked the Director, Van Ling, who is a genius, by the way, if he would do a variation of that trailer for a Theatrical version.

Rushed. No, we took our time on this one. We even re-mixed it to "make sure" it fit under the TASA guidelines for volume level. Which it does. And DTS told me it would be on any disc after the 29th of June, so it should be on DTS discs by now (Right Noreen?).

Keep the comments coming.

THXfully Yours,
Ted Costas
Manager, THX Theatre Alignment Program

Posted by Paul Powers (Member # 332) on 07-31-2001, 06:25 AM:

Well We did put on the new logo right away. In fact we even had about 12 to 15 of the THX people out to the theatre to hear it that first night. They all seemed to like it but I did hear a couple of too short comments. I have not seen too much of a reaction from the audiances yet. So far the audiences seem to enjoy the tex broken logo trailer best.

Personaly I do like the new trailer. It has a feeling of building fury that is kind of exciting. I do feel that the finale climax is not quite fufilling to the build up though and I am left with the feeling of still wanting more.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-01-2001, 07:45 AM:

Paul said: "Well We did put on the new logo right away. In fact we even had about 12 to 15 of the THX people out to the theatre to hear it that first night."

With your theatre in George Lucas' back yard, you must feel like your presentation quality is constantly "under the microscope". At least help from the THX folks is just a few minutes away.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-05-2001, 10:11 AM:

So, we finally got the Cavalcade trailers, and I first ran it yesterday. I like it. The length is fine, especially when it is to be shown before a sound-format tag. I ran it with the SDDS "Jungle" trailer, which itself is almost too long, so I don't have any complaints about the length of the Cavalcade tag.

Cavalcade is more subtle than Broadway, but that's good for some films. I like the DTS "Sonic Landscape" tag specifically because it is subtle, yet effective.