Being a 4 screen with 4 independent proj rooms, we have to move prints about quite a lot, so we had to move Pearl Harbor from 3 to 4 tonight and you all know how big that is. Anyway we have a few different procedures for moving prints, just depends what we think is necessary. So me and my mate are taking it easy with the print, were almost at number 4 when, (insert approriate sound effect here) the 'woody' pops out of print, and we are left standing with 3 hours of film just kind of hanging off our arms. Ok imagine you lift a film off the platter and stand it vertical, yeah?, now pull out the take up ring, with about 3 reels of the feature - yep, thats what happened! Thats not so bad with a short enough film like say a 6 reeler or something, but Pearl Harbour? Comes in at 3 hours +. I'll add that this happened about 10mins before the film was due to start. One thing i should add is that the first 3 reels were saved and presentable, ie we could show the first 3 reels, but the rest of the film was lying in a heap on the foyer floor. Do you think we made it? What would you do?
 

I'd thread and run the first 3 in one room, and use the time to clean up the rest and run it in another or on a different platter. Then again, with Pearl Harbour, I might clip out the final reel, run than and call it a night.

Mark, please give the name of the jerk circuit that was fired for dropping Ben Hur (soon to be screened on TCM). Other potential employees need to be forewarned.

-hogan
 

The major secrets to salvaging a print that has been dropped are:

#1 Separate the reels at the changes first! Do NOT just go cutting here and there or you will end up with one hell of a tangled mess on your hands. Save any large obvious loops of film and get them back onto a reel using the MUT by pulling the film through the brain so the platter can feed the film rather than using the drill and core trick. This keeps the film from getting scratched and cinch marked if you hold the film between your fingers as it winds onto the reel.

#2 When you absolutely HAVE to cut the film, find a camera change and cut 2 perforations out of frame. Yes you read that right, find the frameline of a camera cut and cut it with a pair of scissors exactly 2 perforation holes to either side. That INSURES you get the film back together in the proper order, allows you the ease of a pair of scissors amidst the spaghetti (as opposed to a splicer), coupled with the accuracy of a good overlap splice (see "splicing tips" on this site) and the loss of only one frame (which "most" of the time will not be noticeable at a camera cut. The odds are definitely on your side here.) If the film is cut randomly in the middle of a shot, the splice WILL show no matter what. Following this trick will in most circumstances make the splice invisible, especially if the film is playing in digital sound.

#3 Once you get the film wound back onto reels and/or cores, make sure that each roll is "heads up".

#4 Find the first roll and start loading it back onto the platter (or preferably build this back onto large reels and then rewind and load to the platter via the MUT when you are finished). When you reach the end of that first roll, look at the 2 perfs of the last frame on the roll and match it to what is obviously the matching next roll. Keep doing this until you finish the film.

#5 Curse a bit and properly time that platter. Beer is optional.

Hogan, how long did that mess take you to pick up? If the film was never taken up by the platter and the projector just kept dumping it onto the floor like you described (in another thread), there is a quick way to get the ENTIRE thing up off of the floor without scratching (or extremely minimal at worst) and all in ONE PIECE. How? Simple. Pull your MUT over to the platter and plug it in. Get your biggest reel you have and put it on the MUT. Now (with the projector stopped, duh) cut the film 2 perfs off of a camera cut as it exits the projector...but DO NOT DROP THE FILM! Take that last foot of film and secure it to the large reel on the MUT. Now set the MUT for break-down and turn it on while you hold your hand up high in the air (the film passing through your fingers). The film will unwind from the top of the pile in exactly the reverse manner of which it piled onto the floor originally. When you are done, load that reel onto the platter and re-join the film where you cut it to the end of the film on the platter and finish the show. I've picked up 4 reels of film before in this manner and it took less than 10 minutes to do. The print didn't have a scratch! (Thankfully it was a carpeted booth.)

Have to disagree with you on this one. It is a necessity.
 

Likewise, if your platter tends to "fling" prints, follow the timing and "platter tweeking" procedures outlined by Brad. But I tend to lean toward also properly restraining the roll to keep it from shifting, rather than a simple tail tuck:
Platter Patter

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

*The film that is tucked underneath the roll is not flat and has a bulge in it that catches on the payout.

*Some platters like SPECO that have the supports below the deck can not be tucked except directly over one of those supports. This is because the platter deck sags between the supports and the tuck will not be firmly secured under the weight of the print.

*Some theaters place a strip of masking tape on the last few feet of film. This is very bad practice, for the masking tape makes the tail end of the film stiff and will want to straighten out and become untucked during the show. If masking tape is used to label a print, it should always be placed at least 5 feet from the absolute tail of the print.

*Extra tail leader should always be added, no exceptions. Using only the lab tail leader will scratch up the last bit of the feature which is very unprofessional. Also, when attaching extra tail leader, try and order acetate base clear. This allows the lab's printed tail leader to be viewed through the clear and acetate base stock tucks extremely well and will hold it's shape better than polyester base.

*If performing an inward tuck (soundtrack toward the center on a soundtrack up wind), do not pull the film tight on the tuck. This can cause the film to "straighten out" and the tuck will come loose.

*If performing an outward tuck (soundtrack toward the edge of the platter on a soundtrack up wind), make sure to pull the film tight. The outboard edge sprockets should never actually disappear from view under the roll when tucking like this.

*And the big ones...time the platters properly and eliminate static!

Using tucks as explained above is just as simple as tucking the tail and forgetting about it. I've ran prints to within 2 inches of the edge of the platters with only a tuck to secure it and it'll run just fine and dandy. If however a tuck scares the daylights out of someone, the Bevan-Poo is my next choice. (Review online here)
 

I think that we have already established that the Christie clamps do nothing but scratch up platter decks!

I do not have any experience with them, but the Goldberg reel seems like a good idea?!

If two people are moving a print, make sure you are prepared. Make sure that the booth doors are propped open in case there are moves between booths. Make sure that platter decks are cleared of payout heads, clamping devices etc., etc.

Another thing to consider. Platter timing can determine how tight the take-up is --the security of the center ring.

Be careful of how you carry that print! If it is not carried evenly, you can chance scratches from the print rubbing against itself.

Yes, I too have experienced a dropped print. One solution that I found that works is to put a reel on the rewind bench (Kelmar in my case), detach reels at there splices, and carefully rewind the reels on the bench as if you were putting trailers back onto a spool.

I definately agree that the best and safest way to move prints is to break them down onto 6000s. However, this is not always practical. My old theater was told by the home office what prints were to be shown on what screen. They usually did not tell us until the a.m.--about 1 to 1 1/2 hrs prior to showtimes. Determining factors included box-office revenues, promos etc, etc--info that could not be ascertained until the a.m. A real pisser if you have 5-10 moves!

And when making moves--be sure not to do it with some dumbass who attempts to answer his/her cell-phone while carring the print!

I will also make the arguement that this is why clean/buffed tiled floors are better than carpet--don't have to worry about carpet
lint etc! And if you are worried about scratches from a tiled floor, then you can always lay the film on a clean trashbag--or something else to protect it.

And use Film-Guard to clean that dropped print! Although that AWSHIT may look disasterous, Film-Guard can perform wonders!

Now, ther are ways for a single person to carry a small print. I am not comfortable with this, and do not do it. Never move a print by yourself. If I was alone, then I would find a competitent floor person to assist me, and we would take it slow and easy. I would do a step by step briefing with that person, and watch him/her like a hawk! Since we were a 20 plex, we had platters every few steps. So if I expected something was not right, the the print would go onto the nearest deck where the potential problem was corrected prior to continuing the move. I refused to move a print by myself!

Extra tail leader seems like a good idea, but I ran prints without them with no problems.

As far as the masking tape for I.D. purposes. I use it all the time with no problems. But I perfer the tape that some distributors put on the prints because it does not leave any residue like regular masking tape. --What is that stuff-Mylar? The only problem that I have had with tape is sometimes the ends will want to peel up and can get cought in the film path--so I check it during each thread-up. Also, if you do use I.D. tape--be careful on how you apply it. Dont have wrinkles, and not over sprocket holes!

Film Guard ,aluminum rollers ,proper grounding and platter timing eliminate static. As I said before, I like the platter hula-hoops but not the suction cups. Tuck if you must, but I do not like it. Personal preference, I guess.

What make of film Platter do you use?.
I bet it was the Philips/Kinoton.

On just about any platter system I have ever seen, platter timing does NOT make a difference in how tight the film winds. The tension against the film provided by the swing arm/accumulator/dancer whether by spring tension (Christie/Kinoton/Neumade) or gravity (CFS/Strong/Potts) is what is going to determine how the print winds.

>>Film Guard ,aluminum rollers ,proper grounding and platter timing eliminate static.<<

Platter timing *eliminates* static?? This is news to me. Correct platter timing *will* keep a print from becoming a Frisbee if there is a stickiness problem, be it sticky splices or static cling, but has absolutely no bearing on stopping static electricity.

Aaron

 

1. Jerry, we are quite aware of the 'woody' reference - at the time we named them, "Toy Story" was making the rounds but we quite liked the double entendre too!

2. In a typical day we have to move at least 4-5 prints. Were a small 4-screen and we can have up to 12 films to screen a day, so do the math, a lot of print shifting go's on, and to do stuff like winding off into more managable sizes isn't just impractical, its insane. theres no way i'd get anything done, so we have to move prits whole. We have been working this way for the last 6 years so to only have two 'collapses' is ok statitistics.

3. We DID save the screening (i'm quite proud of this!), but credit HAS to go to whole team, as i was in favour of binning the show at the start. What we did was start the show as normal with the three saved reels. This gave us about an hour to salvage the rest of the print. So we had about 7 or so reels lying in a pile to sort out. What we did was requistion some work space and methodically cut the film into sections. It's hard to explain in words, and i wish someone had a camera so i could show you all, but hey in that situation that was the last thing on my mind. If you ever find ourselve in that postition though, i have a great tip - if you have to cut the film put masking tape over your intended cut, and either side write a letter, i.e A---(cut)----A , then when you get to putting your print back together, its so much easier than trying to marry frames to frames. This is the procedure i came up with the first time this happened to me, and i think it saved our bacon last night.

so in the end we showed in 3 parts - 1. Rescued part that was ok - 2. middle part that we salvaged - 3. end salvaged part

So upshot was Film started on time, audience had to wait for about 1 minute as we spliced on part2, and also again as we did part3.

So downtime was about 3 minutes in all - Not Bad!

maximum respect to the team that was involved in this. I have been in the business for 7 years, seen everything, and usually i'm the one that says 'NO, i can fix this!" but when i saw that print i voted that we bin the show. I never thought we could pull it off, and respect is due to Neil, Jamie and Lindsay

Nice work guys
 

And no, platter timing has no effect on how tight the print winds.
 

If your print is severely tangled, this won't work, but otherwise it worked well for us.
 

It's only for one run of the film, but I suppose it will still cause excess strain on the print.
 

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/
 

Aaron

 

So I thought I'd post BOTH sides of the story here and let you guys and gals decide how A theatres management should handle this sort of case. Note: In the original posts that I did not mention any names either. I will let the employee of this chain reveal who he and the chain are himself.....

The reply from the fired employee was received today in my e-mail. I had foreworded Sean's mail to him after reading it last night. I thought it fair that both sides of the story be known from each operators perspective...Geez, I feel like Rush Limbaugh here!
Mark Gulbrandsen
SLC, UT

Last Night's e-mail.....

Dear Mr. Gulbrandsen,
I am a member of the booth management here at Jordan Commons Megaplex
17. I have read your posting in the forum regarding the "Ben-Hur"
incident. I will have you know that you have been misinformed about this
whole thing. First of all, Kelsey was already under fire with us before
this occured. He was suspect of scratching several prints (oddly enough,
after firing him, the print scratching stopped). He also cut up leader
tapes??!! Now, down to the incident. I had myself AND yet one MORE
projectionist in addition to Kelsey himself. He never tried to call for
assistance. He ends up dropping it 20 minutes before showtime, and calls
no one to inform them, instead choosing to make an attempt to cover it
all up. Of course, this 16 reel monster is a disaster that would (and
did) take hours of cleanup and repair. Meanwhile, the projectionist on
the other end of the building responsibly realizes that showtime for Ben
Hur was approaching fast. Wondering why Kelsey had not yet called, he
went down to offer assistance with the print movement. He opens the
door, and BAAM!!! What a sight to see! Platter covers all over the
print spread nastily all over the booth floor. This is when I was called
to attention, and I, Yes I, had to spend hours of MY time to repair the
problems cause by HIS stupidity.

So....... Please dont trash anyone publicly on film tech when you dont
have both sides of the story. Thank You!

The Fired Employees response....

What topic is he referring to on film-tech? I haven't been reading it for
the past 2 weeks or so.

I think that it is easy to place blame for a lot of problems on the person
who gets the boot after they are gone. You terminate one person, and it
gives everyone else a wake up call by setting an example of them.

scratches - there were movies that were scratched prior to my employment
there, in particular a print of Toy Story 2 was in terrible shape. There
are 2 instances that I know of that I mis-threaded the failsafes, and
possibly scratched the prints, on one of them I had the opportunity to
watch it for a short time and didn't notice any scratches at that point.
the other incident I did not see myself but was informed of by Paul that it
happened and he had fixed it already. I did not get to see the print after
that incident either. as I recall, everyone there during my last week had
one-on-one time with paul for a shift to make sure that everyone was
threading correctly, as the scratched prints had not been linked to just any
one projectionist's shift. As I said before the print of Toy Story was
scratched prior to my employment.

cutting up leaders - I did not make up or tear down any prints. During my
employment at the Reel theater in Magna I made up threading leaders which
involved using outdated unused trailers and a 2' section of leader at the
startup point to thread in frame with, that envolved cutting leaders. but
as for this practice at Jordan Commons, I do not specifically recall doing
this, however I did not have any reason to as I was not envolved with print
make up.

The Ben Hur incident.
Sunday December 26, 1999.

I am going to just explain this, and I am not trying to put any blame on
anyone other than myself. I am trying to explain the circumstances.

My shift that day was from open until 7 or 8pm. I got my schedule for the
screens that I would be in charge of that day and started on it. shortly
after 1 the print of pokemon was supposed to be moved from the platter that
ben hur was going to be played on later to another screen. I moved that
print alone without any need for assistance. However, I had never moved
prints on platters before and realize now that even moving a 5 reel movie
like Pokemon I should have asked for assistance. Having read Brad's then
recent page on how to move very large prints such as the Green Mile easily,
I felt confident that I could move ben hur as well.
the platter that Ben Hur was made up on was running Sleepy Hollow at the
time and was only a 30, maybe 50 foot sitance between platters (projectors
were back to back) when the time came that I had time to move it, I started
doing so, and made it all but the last 5-10 feet before any problems
started. the print started funneling and I laid it down on the floor at
that point. I want to make this clear that I did not try to cover it up,
and that I immediately called Sean (if I recall correctly, I believe that it
was Sean working the north end booths) on the radio for help. I wanted
to start trying to put it back together immediately, but Sean wanted to wait
for Paul to get there and have him decide what to do. Myself, Sean, Paul
and someone else who I don't remember put the print back together in 2
hours. (2 hours working on it. I believe it took around 45 minutes before
Paul showed up)
During the time that we were putting Ben Hur back together I had other shows
scheduled to start. being a nervous wreck at that point I did not pay the
attention that was necessary and apparently started the print of Galaxy
Quest mis-threaded. This is the incident that I do not have personal
confirmation on, I was just told about it by Paul after he fixed it. I was
not given the chance to see what I had done, I was just told to go home
until I had been contacted by Paul or Dick Cornell.

It was a very bad day-after-Christmas.

Take it as you wish, but that's the full truth to the best of my knowledge.
Now you have both sides of the story.

Kelsey

Use the recommended devices. I have seen this stupid "Tuck" thing snag some convolutions near the end of of the show.

There is lots of ways you can prevent your print from winding up on the floor.

Paul

Paul, and just what would the "recommended devices" be? Come visit me and I will prove to you the Christie platter cannot be beat along with a proper tail tuck.

There are stickum devices that can be purchased through theater supply dealers. They do work very well to keep the tail from throwing, but they should be taller. A gust of wind from an A/C vent, power supply blower, or a gassy operator could dislodge the last convolution. If the platter timing and P/O heads are not too far out of kilter, they will usually keep the convolutions concentric.

I have used preview rolls taped "inside-out" with masking tape to keep prints from throwing on the CFS platters, Potts Platters, Strong Platters and other platters as well. When I ran Shindler's List on a Strong platter, I was able to mount the entire print on one platter disk. The final convolution was about 1 inch from the platter edge, and I used a bunch of inside-out masking taped preview cores to keep the print on the platter. Even a "Tuck" would not have worked.

I have also seen some Christie platters go ape shit and toss the print on the floor. Just recently, I had a Strong platter go so damn goofy that I had to use a bunch of 1 inch plastic boxes to keep the print from shifting. Once those prints shift, well, it is a disaster waiting and looking for a place to happen.

In Mindrot, North Dakota, (City name from the complements of a friend of mine on FT who lives in North Dakota) an AW3 went completely horse shit because someone left a screw out of a light module. When the roof hatch was open, and the sunlight hit the platter just right, the platter "took off". A hoola hoop would have saved the day several times for that projectionist. NO tuck would have stopped that one..

In Milwaukee, Wisconsin, an AW2 went completely snake shit and became so spuratic in operation that the platter was in danger of throwing the print. Nobody could fix it. Just turned out there was a bad circuit breaker in the power panel that was allowing intermittant power to the platter. That was a rollercoaster ride for the film.

But the best one is the hoola hoop. There is no way in hell a platter will toss a print on the floor, even if the motor racked "full on" to 180RPM or better unless the inertia of the off-balance print was strong enough to tip the platter over.

Also, I have had some platters puke in the middle of the show where I had to use the MUT to power up a run-away pay-out head, and in some cases, the take-up. After some frantic placements of hocky pucks to keep the print on the platter, I have shown several operators how to use the MUT to keep the show on the screen, and on occassion, I have shown some operators how to use the MUT when the variac failed. Some operators were so amazed that they would scratch their butt and say, "Jeeze, I would have never thought of that."

In short, most thrown prints are caused by an electrical or mechanical malfunction, as well as some doofis threading it up wrong.

Yes, Christie platters and some others run very smooth, and won't cause any real problems. But when they do, a print tuck may not work.

These are just a few......Innovation works!
********************************************************************
Brad said:

"And no, platter timing has no effect on how tight the print winds."
*********************************************************************
Brad is 100% correct in that statement.

Paul