People generally have always felt that an auto-threading projector would be unreliable, scratch film, etc. But really, can it damage film as bad as the average untrained projectionist?
We were talking about endless platters in another topic. While they are not the greatest thing to happen to film, one reason people bought them is because they would like to reduce labor.
Auto-threading would do much the same; there would be a trade-off in that there are more parts to break, but it would reduce training for operators and help prevent damaged film and refunds (because of mis-threads.)
I'm not really wild about auto-threading projectors, but with the large percentage of poorly trained operators out there, I think that it may be an idea that might actually make sense today. Of course, some digital readers would have to be threaded by themselves (unless basement readers were used.) But, still, it would help.
If Bell and Howell could make a 16mm auto-thread projector stand up to junior high-school kids, surely someone could make one for 35mm use.
That's my great idea for the day...
No... couldn't cost $100,000! But, I can easily see it adding $500 to the cost of a regular projector at first; then going down if the idea caught on. If theater owners knew that (for $500 extra) there would be almost no training required to thread a projector, they might go for it. That's about the cost of two damaged reels. Of course, many give no training now, so maybe not!
Bell & Howell did it in 1968 with all mechanical parts and without significantly changing their existing (basic projector) design. Today, with micro-processors, optical sensors, etc. being cheap and polyester film for durablity, couldn't it work?
Oh, well; I'll shut up now...!
PS: Brad, you're looking very young these days!
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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
35mm is the "Professional format", please lets keep that way!
All kidding aside, I think the answer is yes. But few will acknowledge it. Reminds me of the quote from Dracula; "The vampire's strength is in that no one will believe in him..."
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Richard, I am surprised that you havn't figured out that I am really Joe Redifer(you can tell by my nose). Brad is Evans and Joe, yes Joe is John Walsh. John Pytlak is in reality is Mark Gulbrandson who is Will Kutler. Groucho Marks would be delighted if he could join us but he is sitting on your shoulder, to write a critique on how you will accomplish automatic threading. Oh! yes we are all Gordon Mcloud and we are all Canadians. God save the Queen.
Bob, How did you figure out that Brad is really me?
About the automatic threading ... Several of you have mentioned how bad the Bell and Howell Autoload machines can damage film. I can definitely agree with that. From September 1980 to May 1982, I took those projectors to classrooms before school and set them up for the teachers. I really enjoyed doing it, since we'd have an average of two per day. At Cedartown Junior High, we had two Autoloads and one slot load, all Bell and Howell. In the two years I worked with those machines, the slot load only jammed ONCE! The autoloads jammed quite frequently (once per week or two). When an autoload machine threaded improperly, it often would damage a foot or two of film by the time we'd realize it wasn't threading correctly and get it turned off.
When I threaded the autoloads, I always liked to open the door so I could see the film move through the mechanism. Most people didn't do that and faithfully waited for the film to come out the back of the machine. The first time I ever took a projector to a classroom to set it up for a teacher, I put the machine in autoload position, turned the machine on, fed the film, watched the projector grab it and pull it through, and waited for the film to come out the back, And waited, and waited. I turned the machine off and put it in reverse and it pulled it in further. Opening the door, I found about 2 or 3 feet of film wrapped around one of the wheels in there. The librarian and I had to partially disassemble the mechanism to get that out. It unnerved me and I never trusted autoloads again. I had been 12 years old for a month. At least my worst experience operating a projector myself with a projector was my first one.
Just think of the mishaps that would occur if autoload 35mm projectors were developed. I could see a machine tangling several feet of film in the mechanism, creating a mess that nobody in the theatre would have the technical skill to undo. It would be a disaster. Unless 35mm autoloads could be developed to be much less problematic than the 16mm autoloads I worked with in 1980-1982, I'd say forget it. I saw many jams and malfunctions with autoloads from 1974-1980 as well, watching teachers operate the machines. I'd say at least 10 percent of the films shown on autoloads had problems threading the first time, or did not play properly for some reason. Some of the state department's films got damaged so frequently that no leader was left and the first few seconds or minutes of the film would be gone. I don't think the movie studios would want this happening to their release prints.
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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site
Anyhow, guess what I have to work with....ya, thats right....a 16mm Bell and Howell Auto Shredder. It has either a 250 or 500 watt Marc lamp--brain dump, I forgot! Anyhow, one cannot open the combo lens holder and film trap without also opening the lamphouse door! Dangerous! Also, it is a bitch if you have to either thread or unthread this machine manually. I generally have to remove the exciter lamp cover in order to get the film off the drum--to prevent film damage! It is also almost impossible to completely clean the film path and clean the sound optics if necessary! Great engineering design! !
It's easy to find them.
http://listings.ebay.com/aw/plistings/list/category1477/index.html
This is where most of the old 'school' films (and many other 16mm titles) that survived the dumpsters of the world usually end up.
You can usually buy them in lots of several.
Aaron
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BTW does ANYONE know what actually HAPPENED to all those films at the schools?
All our films came from the State of Georgia Educational Film Library. Films were available for teachers to borrow throughout the school year. I saw many of the films multiple times during my 1st through 8th drade years (1974-1982). The 1981-1982 school year was the last year for these films being available in the state of Georgia. Some of the films popped up on videotape and I've seen some of the old films on the NASA channel, but they seem to have mostly disappeared. Most of them were very old and many of the facts in them are probably terribly dated, since most of them were made in the 50s and 60s. The geography ones about specific countries might be very interesting for historical purposes, as well as the science ones about the solar system and such (let's see what they didn't know back then ).
The library that had the films probably got rid of them in favor of videotapes of more modern science shows. Most places don't want to store a bunch of stuff that hasn't been used in 19 years, so I wouldn't be surprised if the films weren't eventually "excessed" and either sold very cheaply or discarded.
I admit that I always missed the films after they weren't used any more. I enjoyed the days (at least once a week) where we'd have a class where we could just relax and watch a film. It was an easy class for the students and an entire easy day for the teacher. IN 7th and 8th grade, I also enjoyed being pulled out of class to go and fix a projector that was messing up.
Oh, on the Weird Al Yankovic live concert DVD, there are two "educational film" videos that poke fun at all of those films that were shown in schools back then. They're hilarious and I highly recommend picking up that DVD just to have those. Some of my friends have seen both of them several times and still love them and request them when they come over.
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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site
Regarding auto threading of 35mm - I think issues like getting the film to self thread in-frame every time, and the ability to un-thread the machine without tearing up any film would make the mechanism overly complicated and prone to failure. Heck, half the fun of running film is threading the projector!
--Chris
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Autoload 35mm. Never. Autoload platters. Never. For such a devil to work, it has to be kept up. That's why many gripe over the B & H units in schools. They were operated most of the time by untrained individuals which made life hard on the machine. They were hardly ever cleaned, some cases seldom used.
You're right. I'd say every teacher in all the schools operated these machines in Cedartown, Ga. I saw teachers do all kinds of things when the machines would act up. There was the time that the film broke and the art teacher spliced the film together with scotch tape (an ugly wad of scotch tape). She wondered if it would go through. It did, but if it hadn't, it would have been bad. Some people would open the door and try anything if the machine was acting up.
Also keep in mind that funding for schools has always been poor in many areas. Projectors were only serviced when they developed serious problems (for all practical purposes, became inoperable). The machines were cleaned once per school year. I'm amazed that our school's projectors worked as well as they did, but several teachers that taught there that formerly taught at the high school told us that our projectors worked much better than the high school ones.
The most frequent problem we had was films jumping in the gate while running. Many films were in bad shape and would do this. Everyone learned that stopping the machine, running the film backwards for a few seconds, and then going back to forward would make it stop. Every teacher and student knew this and would do it when film started jumping. This probably wasn't too good for the film. The "System restorer" lever on autoloads and the "loop reset" on slot load machines seemed to do no good.
I'd say very few Bell and Howell machines in schools are "maintained" until they became unusable.
If autoload projectors or continuous loop systems are put in movie theatres, the same thing will happen in the booth. Since nobody with any skill will [supposedly] be required anymore, there will be nobody at the theatre who knows how to care for the machines, and they'll make a service call if one ever becomes unusable. This means that many machines will not be running at their best due to lack of attention and maintenance.
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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site