Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Dolby/DTS/SDDS/THX sound trailers

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Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 08-11-2001, 07:09 AM:

I am refering those 30 second snipes that play infront of a movie. I basically wanted to know if everyone out there plays them and why? I am in favour of them because most importantly they let audience members like us know what sound formatt is being used? I started this topic as all of my local cinemas dont frequently bother to show them? For instance the cinema in the Museum of film here is equiped with Dolby digital / DTS and SDDS and i have only once seen a dolby logo in front of a film. I assume everything is played in Dolby digital.

Also i recently saw Rush hour 2 in a auditorium equiped with both Dolby Digital and DTS. The presentation was definately digital sound but there was no sound snipe so which sound system was used?? I tend to prefer the sound of DTS so if i knew that this cinema used DTS when possible I would go there often, but with no sound logo I assume Dolby Digital is being used so I attend a Dolby Digital only cinema which cost less to travel to.

what do you guys think?

------------------
------------------
Michael Brown
Bradford Student Cinema
www.Bradfordstudentcinema.co.uk
"Do you snorkle?
No, I get nervous when brightly coloured fish stare at me face to face."

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 08-11-2001, 08:51 AM:

While IO personally like them, I discourage staff from putting them on. If a THX trailer/snipe is on a feature, then that feature is moved to a non-THX house, they forget to remove the trailer. Generally, we don't have enough staff to do this. It's a little thing to do, but there are already too many "little things" to keep up with.

Since it is sort of like advertising for ourselves, it would be nice to show off our sound system. However, by *not* running them, I feel the patron is not "out" of anything, or getting screwed somehow.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-11-2001, 11:34 AM:

We don't show them much at the multiplex, either, also because prints move around too much. At a certain 5-plex, we have three DTS houses (two mounted in the rack, one in a rolling cart), one SDDS house (rolling cart), and one SR-D house. Only one house is THX certified. Since prints tend to move at least once a week, chances are very good that the wrong trailer would end up playing in the wrong house, which I would personally consider to be worse than not showing the sound trailer at all. Also, the question arises of what to do when a print is interlocked in multiple houses with different sound formats.
If I am running a print only once for a screening or something, I will always add the sound trailer(s) because I personally like them, but it's not really practical, unfortunately, to expect that the proper trailers will be run for every show in a multiplex that is essentially management-run for most of the week.
If the entire complex had only one digital format in all houses and/or if the booth were staffed full-time with competent employees who cared about such things, I would, of course, feel differently.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 08-11-2001, 02:09 PM:

Like Scott and the others, they are great for single screen houses but way too much trouble to deal with in a modern plex where prints move from house to house sometimes within the course of a day... Now if all the screens had the same digital format it wouldnt be such a bother

Also, IMO, the digital snipes do tend to get old after awhile (especially the DTS Flying Disc, Dolby City, and SDDS 'Current Affair' triangle) and not having the option of getting them replaced or updated free (Dolby and THX are the exceptions to this rule) sucks.

Aaron

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-11-2001, 05:55 PM:

We run the DTS Sonic Landscape trailer with almost every show. We only have one screen so it's easy to keep track of

Occasionally for fun I'll pull out the old flying disks logo and use that....kids seem to like it. But the best thing would be some NEW logos.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-11-2001, 06:52 PM:

Although the original Dolby Train really impressed me (it was so surreal and sounded phenomenal) I haven't been impressed by many digital logos since. I was impressed by the flying disc DTS the very first time I saw it, but not as impressed as I was at the Dolby train. The SDDS logos have never really been impressive, except for the phenomenal deep bass in the first one. It rattled the ports every time (remember, Ian?) I usually like the THX logos the first time I see them (except for Moo Cow, which I do not like) but they get old pretty quick.

I guess it is not as bad for the audience since they don't need to sit through them as often as I do. But with 56 ads and 30 trailers on the front of each film nowadays, plus the policy, it would seem annoying to have a digital logo that has to be sat through as well. Especially when the policy is over a minute long like UA's Blade Runner 2 ODDyssey.

Posted by Mathias Andersson (Member # 169) on 08-11-2001, 06:54 PM:

We have a single screen house and always show a THX trailer followed by a digital format trailer. Sometimes I put the good old (and somewhat scratchy) Dolby Train or Dolby City in front of a movie and there are always reactions from the audience. It's a bit nostalgic to see that old Dolby Stereo Digital logo...

// Mathias

Posted by Steven Pickles (Member # 785) on 08-12-2001, 02:49 AM:

I like the digital snipes in front of a picture. Its just something else to watch and the sound is awesome on some of them... I wasn't too impressed with the new Dolby Aurora trailer tho. Might be because I don't have SRD-EX installed, who knows? Does Dolby or DTS send out free replacement trailers to theatres with their equipment or do they charge? I'd like to get a few new ones because we've run the others ragged.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 08-12-2001, 03:32 AM:

>>Does Dolby or DTS send out free replacement trailers to theatres with their equipment or do they charge?<<

Dolby and THX (if you are certified of course) send out replacement trailer sets for the asking (usually 1 flat/1 scope of a particular type per screen).

DTS sometimes charges (I believe around $30 per screen for a set of four, 2 flat/2 scope) and sometimes throws a few free ones your way, especially if you are a good customer

Sony charges like $50 each or some other ridiculously high price for their trailers, that's the main reason I never bothered with getting the new style SDDS logos.

Aaron

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 08-12-2001, 07:44 AM:

Yes, It is indeed a problem if the cinema is a multiplex with different sound systems and thx/non-thx houses. I have seen a thx snipe in a non-thx auditorium and a dolby ex snipe in an non-ex dolby audiotorium. My opinion is that if your have a multiplex with indentical sound systems in each screen or more significatly a single screen theatre with 2 more more digital systems , then snipes should be played.

Woahhhhhhhh I'm an expert film handler now

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 08-13-2001, 05:04 AM:

This is somewhat disappointing to hear what goes on, or rather doesn't go on the front of features. I supervise a circuit of several hundred screens and we go to great lengths to ensure our patrons know they are about to hear the film in one of the 3 digital formats or in one of our THX houses.

DTS and SDDS logos have come to us free of charge, Dolby supplies initial batches with each processor installation and THX supply new logos upon each re-certification. I want our patrons to know that we have more digital equipped houses than any of our competitors, which is indeed the case. Our policy for 4 years has been one of 100% digital in every new location we build.

In case you are wondering, yes I was working as a projectionist in the last 8 years and have certainly had to remove digital or THX logos from prints as they move houses. I can not even guarantee that on a rare occaison that an inappropriate digital logo has been run, but to me this is far outweighed by the thrill the audience has after seeing the full SDDS logo or Dolby Digital Train followed by THX Tex. The ooohhhs and aaahhhs from the audience always give me a thrill and are all part of the presentation the big theatre screens and big theatre sound can deliver.

The cost of new logos is a small price to pay to tell the audience what they are getting in our theatres.

After all, the audience IS listening.

David Kilderry

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-13-2001, 10:53 AM:

David Kilderry said: "...the thrill the audience has after seeing the full SDDS logo or Dolby Digital Train followed by THX Tex. The ooohhhs and aaahhhs from the audience always give me a thrill and are all part of the presentation the big theatre screens and big theatre sound can deliver... After all, the audience IS listening."

I agree that showing the proper sound trailers with digital sound is all part of "SHOWMANSHIP" that is too often a victim of the cost-cutting mentality in today's multiplex. If there isn't enough time to change out the trailer if the print is moved, shouldn't there be?

As a poor compromise, how practical would it be to put the sound trailers at the head of the roll, and bypass them if the print is not in a digital house?

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Christopher K. Williams (Member # 418) on 08-14-2001, 01:55 AM:

My theater is an 11 screen with 5 SRD/SDDS houses, 5 SRD/DTS, and one with all 3. And YES, we run sound trailers before every show. We change out sound trailers Thursday night or Friday morning for prints moving to houses with a different format, and it's never really been a big deal. In fact, I thought most theaters operated this way!

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-14-2001, 02:52 AM:

I agree with John P - they add a touch of showmanship and are one of the many little ways in which going to the cinema is different from staying at home and watching a video.

My main problem is with the cost of these things. When I was a projectionist I never used DTS or SDDS and so couldn't comment there, but Dolby only give one set away (with the new processor), and when they were worn out you had to buy replacements at around UKP30 per trailer. Because the trailers were constantly being edited in and out of bullshit reels they tended to wear out really quite quickly, and of course once the digital sound starts dropping out they're useless anyway.

The bottom line is that these trailers are an advertisement for a commercial product, and whilst they can also be impressive to listen to (which is why cinemas show them) then at the very least they should be supplied free of charge. After all, for every other kind of commercial the advertiser pays the cinema, not the other way round.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 08-14-2001, 03:32 AM:

I still think it'd be funny if audiences started singing along with the "Aurora" trailer- "Ahhhhh, ahhhh, AHHHHHHHHHHH!"
And is it just me, or did they put in the sound of some kids laughing at the beginning of that DTS piano trailer?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-14-2001, 06:27 PM:

There is a point where the sound of children laughing can be heard on the DTS "Sonic Landscape" trailer, but I hear that closer to the end of the clip as the piano key slide and bass swell suddenly builds up. I guess it seems like it is at the beginning since the clip is so decidedly short.

Speaking of subtleties, does anybody recall that different version of the Dolby Digital "Train" trailer (when it was still Dolby Stereo Digital)? This one had some kind of mystical flute intro with a deep bass whirr down as the clicks in the four corners of the auditorium hit. I wish this one was on my DD Demo DVD instead of the regular clip. I don't think that version (at least the audio portion of it anyway) is available anymore. I thought it sounded more interesting than the more straight forward sounding version that sometimes gets played in Dolby Digital movie theaters. The train wheels jarring forward is still great on either version.

I think my favorite trailer out of all the THX, DD, DTS and SDDS snipes is still the THX Cimarron trailer. That one just looks so cool.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-14-2001, 08:25 PM:

Could we possibly reduce the "Clear Fields" button down to one pixel?

The first version of the Dolby Train (at least the first version that I saw) was fairly long and said "Dolby Stereo Digital". It had 5 "clanks" in the beginning that cycled through left, center, right, right surround, and left surround, in that order. The newer, shorter version just says "Dolby Digital" and the mix is, to be blunt, extremely wimpy in comparison. It only has 3 or 4 "clanks" in the beginning (only one surround clank). The longer "Dolby Stereo Digital" version also had a much better bass mix and the whole thing was kind of surreal.

You can't have long logos these days with all of the other crap that plays before the feature, so I can understand why they shortened it. But still, it's as if some one took the original train, cut it up and then wiped their ass with it and rereleased it. They should have just retired the train in my opinion (which doesn't count)

Click here to download a stereo MP3 of the original train. Unfortunately I didn't include the surrounds in this mix when I recorded it from a DA10. It was recorded a very long time ago.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-14-2001, 10:01 PM:

Joe, that is NOT the original version of the Train logo. That is the second version, which I was very annoyed to find that Dolby had changed. The original version has the speaker pings over near-silence, doesn't have that cheezy whistle and was more "beefed up" (for lack of a better term). I never liked this version (that you posted here). IMHO the sound mix on this shouldn't get loud until the first CHUG of the steam engine, which this version (posted above) does not. It's just loud all the way through. I want Dolby to bring back the ORIGINAL one! The reasoning I was told it was discontinued was that it was damaging speakers. Oh well, people should've built better systems.

While we're discussing new tracks for logo trailers, perhaps Mr.Costas can tell us when the original mix for the THX Cimarron will be re-released? Again, the original mix was fantastic, but the new one (found on the SRD versions and "most" 35mm SR prints) is lacking. (Somewhere I have a recording of the original version of this.) They are completely different and I got the same reasoning behind the change...too many people built sound systems that couldn't handle the track.

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 08-15-2001, 01:25 AM:

Too often, I think, people forget how much really goes into the soundtrack of a film. (Someone once said that it was two-thirds of the experience) The whole movie is going to showcase actors & camera work, and that will be obvious to the audience. But I've heard audiences in my 18 plex say, "Oh! They must have surround sound!" after a flyby or explosion in a movie. HAVE surround sound? How much money did we throw into THX "certified" equipment and soundproof auditoriums to just HAVE surround sound?

People (in my experience) are only conscious of digital movie sound on 3 occasions:
1. It's playing too loud
2. It's not playing at all
3. There's a snipe before the movie
-Sometimes, too, when there's something wrong with the sound, but only when it's major distortion or continual digital data dropouts.

Even when we put up DTS and Dolby posters near the auditorium doors, very few people noticed. It's only when we make note of the sound during the film by identifying Dolby, DTS, etc. with snipes that they notice & (maybe) appreciate what they're hearing.

My favorite is still Tex. Yes, it's kind of obnoxious & childish, but whenever I see it, it makes me wish that guy could fix more of the problems that infest the projection business.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-15-2001, 02:51 AM:

I knew you were going to say that, Brad.

But it is the original version that I ever heard (like I said - the first version that I ever saw). There probably was a version that I never heard. But the one I posted (bad recording) beats the hell outta the shorter version that is available now (the one available for download in videos section).

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-15-2001, 03:14 AM:

I knew you were going to say that you knew that I was going to say that, Joe, but I had to say it anyway, as you well know.

Personally, I prefer the mix that is out right now over the one that you posted above. There are more dynamics in the current mix, but it is definitey too short and nowhere near as good as "the" original mix.

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 08-15-2001, 09:23 AM:

Is the version of the DD snipe that is on the Chasing Amy Criterion laserdisc the original "train" snipe?

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-15-2001, 05:30 PM:

I don't know. Post it. Wasn't Chasing Amy mono or very close to it?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-15-2001, 06:56 PM:

I wonder if Yamaha Pianos underwrote the cost of the dTS Sonic Landscape trailer?

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 08-15-2001, 10:22 PM:

Chasing Amy was SRD & SDDS. The snipe seems close to the original Train, but I've only seen one version of the Train snipe.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-18-2001, 03:12 PM:

As far as I know, for DVD and Laserdisc, there has only been one version of the Dolby Digital train trailer made (with the Dolby Digital logo instead of "Dolby Stereo Digital"). It is a slightly shorter trailer than previous versions. It should be noted that there are different 384kb/s and 448kb/s encodings of this trailer. My copy of "DVD Spectacular" has a 384k version, whereas the DD Demo DVD has it upped to 448kb/s --and it sounds a little better. But I do agree that the volume of this clip is not as "loud" as past DD train trailers. I recall a DD Train trailer on the front of "The Lion King" (at the glorious-but-gone Northpark #1) scaring the crap out of some kiddies and making them cry. Heh heh.

I heard the one with the whistle and extra intro music for the first time at the Casa Linda 4 theater in Dallas back in 1995. I had previously "Dolby Stereo Digital" trailers where the metallic clicks were done over near silence. The one I saw on the front of "The Lion King" in 1994 is one example. Another is when I saw "The Program" back in 1993 at Cinemark's Hollywood USA theater in Garland. This was on a then-THX certified screen with Dolby Digital. Pretty forgettable movie though, outside of the controversial scene where the jocks lay down in the middle of the highway to let cars buzz right by them (some stupid frat boys got killed in real life copying the scene and Buena Vista cut it out of home video versions).

Speaking of different mixes, the Tex THX trailers have been mentioned here and there. I like the "Tex 2: Moo Can" clip, but I have heard different mixes for this one. A .VOB file I downloaded of the theatrical trailer sounded kind of wimpy, unlike the first "Tex" trailer. The same wimpy sound mix is found on the limited edition THX trailers DVD that Dell sends out with its THX-certified PCs. But on the "Toy Story" Ultimate Toy Box, "Tex 2: Moo Can" rocks! I mean that one really packs a punch and has much more engaging surrounds. My guess is that they remixed this trailer with Surround EX in mind and then beefed up the bass while they were at it.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-18-2001, 03:23 PM:

Bobby,

Yes that Dolby Train logo you heard in front of Lion King at GCC Northpark was indeed the GOOD and ORIGINAL one that Dolby no longer makes. As you pointed out, the big tip offs to this particular mix were having the speakers pinged over near silence and the logo "Dolby Stereo Digital" at the end.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-18-2001, 05:48 PM:

THX Certified PCs? What the hell? I want THX to come and certify my toilet. It is a bit too echoey right now and I feel that the levels could be more balanced when I let one fly.

If I had the $$$, I'm sure they'd do it.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-19-2001, 01:01 AM:

Dell's THX PC thing is basically just a promotional thing for THX I guess. You get a few little goodies such as a nice looking mouse pad (that does not work with my optical mouse) and the little THX trailers DVDs, which has "Broadway," "Grand," "Tex" and "Tex 2: Moo Can" along with some THX Optimode stuff. Of those trailers, "Grand" definitely has the most aggressive and system challenging mix. I mean it is damned loud at the end.

This program certainly doesn't mean a computer system is going to sound as good as a commercial movie theater or even a good home theater system for that matter. THX and Dell made a deal and in their "THX PC" program, a computer has to have a minimum level of hardware standards (certain size monitor/video card, CPU, memory level, etc.), but one of the central things to that is the computer one of the computer speaker systems THX has certified for PCs. In Dell's case, the Altec Lansing ADA-885 system is what they sell. Its nice for a little Dolby Digital speaker setup. But as far as "THX certified" computer speakers go, Klipsch makes a better setup (although theirs has no Dolby Digital decoder built in).

Just like I don't think THX Digital Mastering has anything to do with Home THX or the very separate Professional THX program for commercial theaters, this THX PC thing is a very different department as well. The only thing they all have in common is the THX brand name. I suppose for this THX PC program to get taken more seriously it would have to be opened up to more computer vendors than just Dell. And for things to be properly "certified" the computer software situation would have to be addressed. Everything from basic applications to operating systems need to be overhauled desperately.

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 08-19-2001, 01:22 AM:

Don't forget that THX used to cerify VHS tapes. I find it hard to believe that THX was actually doing something in the Film to Tape transfer that could really make these tapes superior to others.
It's all in the name, it really is.

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 08-19-2001, 05:44 AM:

I have seen the dolby trailers on this site and the dts trailers on their site, is there any more websites where different trailers can be downloaded. Such as THX and Sony trailers. I would be interested in quicktime video/avi or Wav/mp3 sound files.

Posted by Mathias Andersson (Member # 169) on 08-19-2001, 07:21 AM:

I have actually made a little collection for our cinema at http://www.rodakvarn.se/teknik/index_ljudformat.html . It's in Swedish, but you'll figure it out...

// Mathias

Posted by Phillip Jackson (Member # 489) on 08-21-2001, 06:36 AM:

Was there a Trailer made for CDS??

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-22-2001, 11:39 PM:

Yes, there was a CDS trailer made, but I never saw it on any of the few CDS shows I watched in New York City, nor Atlanta either at the "Terminator 2" engagement in that Cineplex Odeon --I forget if it was Lenox Square or what.

Anyway, I recall reading an article about CDS in one of the film trade magazines back in 1990 when the system was getting its 35mm format up and ready to run. The guys at Optical Radiation Corp talked about test audiences in L.A. cheering the CDS ad when it played. Might have been a cheezy ad for never getting to see it. But then New York theaters were never good about showing snipes. The only ones I ever saw was the THX Cimarron trailer on the front of "Thelma and Louise" at the newly opened Loews Village VII in 1991 (and they even played a Dolby SR snipe too! --just some orchestra music playing with SR "switching on" and scrolling up a big white Dolby SR logo).

Has anyone here ever seen the THX "Wings" trailer? My understanding is that it is similar to "Broadway" except the graphics on screen are not nearly as good.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-22-2001, 11:54 PM:

Not only are the graphics not very good on the Wings trailer, but the audio track was overmodulated on it as well. It's basically the same thing as the Broadway logo, except it has a couple of screens saying something like "for the past 35 years motion picture sound systems have not changed..."

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 02-19-2002, 06:16 PM:

The AMC Hamilton in New Jersey no longer uses SDDS snipes. This was the case the last 3 times I saw SDDS titles in that megaplex (The Man Who Wasn't There, How High, Gosford Park).

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-19-2002, 08:55 PM:

The last time I saw an SDDS snipe anywhere was the "Volcano" trailer on the front of "The Matrix" back in 1999 when AMC's Quail Springs Mall 24 was still a new multiplex in Oklahoma City. That's the only time I've ever seen that trailer. I didn't ever get to see the ocean one SDDS reportedly released in the late 1990s.

Now, not only do they not play any format snipes, but I think they are still using the same AMC theater logo snipes they got supplied back in late 1998 when the place first opened. At least those clips look beaten to hell enough to be 3 or 4 years old. Oh, and it is funny to listen to SDDS fail through digital and 1/2 quality digital down to analog back and forth in rapid fire fashion on those things.

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 02-20-2002, 12:35 AM:

I remember some sort of SDDS " Jungle " trailer. It played before " Thin Red Line "

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-20-2002, 06:33 AM:

Bobby Henderson said: "At least those clips look beaten to hell enough to be 3 or 4 years old. Oh, and it is funny to listen to SDDS fail through digital and 1/2 quality digital down to analog back and forth in rapid fire fashion on those things."

That's not funny, that's sad. Those worn out clips should be retired. Does anyone from the theatre actually LISTEN to what they are playing, to check presentation quality?

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 585-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 585-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 02-20-2002, 05:40 PM:

I like to put a DOolby Logo on most film I play, but in the THX screen I normaly only put a THX logo, depending on the film it can be TEX, broadway, broadway 2000 or TEX 2 MOO. I know it doesn't tell the audience which digital system it is, we only have SRD and there is a Plastic sign outside so that should give them a clue.
As mentioned in other replies, yes the logos do get dirty from been used so much, but I can afford to buy new ones in my budget and it gives the audience a change by getting a different kind. SO I have the choice of any of the Dolby logo's from MANCINI to AURORA.
Its also a nice introduction to the film after a lens change stop too.
Darren
CITY SCREEN YORK

Posted by Rob Jones (Member # 902) on 02-20-2002, 06:12 PM:

We don't have THX (and without knocking our building down and starting over probably never will have!), but I am tempted to get the Simpsons THX trailer printed up onto 35mm somehow just for the comedy value

Of course it would have to be saved just for special occasions.

We just got in replacement Aurora and Rain trailers from Jack Roe for about £30 each - in the states do Dolby give these away for the asking or is it get your credit card out time?

Darren - you still play Mancini?? I've now hidden ours in the hope that people put Temple on instead for those SR moments - makes me cringe whenever I see that playing over here at the uni! Having said that I still like to put on the scratchy old christmas trailer just before we break up for summer.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-20-2002, 07:50 PM:

Darren,

If you don't want to place two format trailers on a film (one for THX and one for Dolby Digital) then just get some copies of the THX Cimarron trailer. They come in two varieties, Dolby SR and Dolby SR*D. The SR*D version starts out with a tagline "Dolby Digital sound in a THX Theatre". The Cimarron trailer is still my favorite out of all the THX clips. I wish some DVDs featured it instead of the getting-very-boring THX Broadway clip that almost always gets used.

Posted by Michael Swarbrick (Member # 1108) on 02-20-2002, 08:03 PM:

At my cinema we always play the Digital logos. I'm really tired of Dolby's Train, so I put in Aurora whenever I can or City (love that chopper!). I tried DTS Sonic Landscape with Vanilla Sky, but it didn't sound as good as it does in my living room. On the rare occasions we play a film in SDDS in the big screen, we always use Quest. We don't care if it is 1 1/2 minutes long, it rules!

I saw the SDDS Underwater snipe for the first time today at another cinema, didn't like it really. The annoying thing was that I think SDDS was at reference level, but Dolby Digital sounded like it was well below reference level, and SDDS dropped out 2 or 3 times during the movie. Even the civilians could tell the difference in volume!

What made it even worse was the movie (Monsters, Inc.) was only released two weeks ago! It shouldn't be dropping out already should it?! I really hate multiplexes.

------------------
Michael Swarbrick
Projectionist, Empire Leicester Square

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 02-20-2002, 09:18 PM:

Dolby Mancini Trailer?

how old is that? and what are the details on it??

Posted by Rob Jones (Member # 902) on 02-21-2002, 12:38 PM:

I believe its called "Mancini Fanfare" - its a long helicopter shot over some bit of countryside somewhere, with, what I can only assume is music by Mancini playing in the background, with a Dolby Stereo caption "Making Movies Sound Better" if I remember right.

I don't know when it was made but I'm guessing it must be 80's - I've also seen another Dolby Stereo one with a shot in space where the Dolby Stereo logo comes swooping in to the centre of the screen, accompanied by quite possibily the cheesiest music snipe ever to hit the big screen. I'm guessing that one's also late 70's - early 80's. Suprisingly, Jack Roe in the UK still sell it, and the Picture House in Keighley where I have previously worked still uses it.

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 02-21-2002, 02:29 PM:

Was this to advertise SR or A?

Posted by Rob Jones (Member # 902) on 02-21-2002, 03:56 PM:

Mancini - I believe thats SR
The whooshy one - I presume from its age its A but I'm not 100% on either.

Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 02-26-2002, 11:35 AM:

Rob, yes I have a couple of Dolby Manicin's but never play them as I hate them!!! They are both SRD and were bought in 1999.
Temple is a nasty one, whats with the 'Coo's ' at the end!?? They could of put a bit of colour in it too!

I'll have to Nag THX to get the other logos that i dont have yet. The Cavalcade is quite a nice one to use. Tex i agree is childish, but the only one that demonstartes the split surrounds well. I like it anyway!! And its playing right now with Oceans Eleven.

Darren

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-26-2002, 02:11 PM:

I'm still surprised the THX Broadway was released in mutiple digital formats and yet carries a mono surround channel. With digital sound, and especially EX and SDDS-8, the intro part of the "deep note" could have made it's way from the left, slowly through each stage channel to the right, passing the right surrounds, EX surrounds, left surround and then when it made it's way back to the screen left channel could've picked up there to do it's main "blast".

Someone call Gary Rydstrom.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-26-2002, 05:32 PM:

Typically, I only use the audio logo snipes for special occasions – a big movie (not necessarily a loud one) or else one that shows off the system nicely.

Projection is one of the most violent things you can do to film. There's just no way I would risk damaging one of my audio snipes for something silly like SUPER TROOPERS or something as plain-sounding as A WALK TO REMEMBER.

I'm just returning to cinema installation & maintenance after taking some time off and I am realizing that I'm behind-the-times. I didn't know about the Dolby "Aurora" trailer or the new SDDS ones, either. My last encounter with SDDS was in 1997 when I was working for AMC. We only had flat/scope versions of the same trailer to work with. Nobody uses that system down here, so I've fallen out-of-touch with Sony's system.

THX is just out-of-control with crazy variety. I love it! Makes me wanna get certified. Am I certifiable? haha.

How many DTS versions are there now?

I'm waiting for my annual provision of Dolby trailers to arrive. DTS is sending some new ones, too.

AFAIK, the "Mancini" trailer is a special order item – I was told (about two years back) that I would have to buy that one if I wanted it.

------------------
And, hey! Let's be careful out there.

~Manny.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-26-2002, 05:40 PM:

I know what you mean about the Dolby "Temple" trailer. I swear that those "cooing" sounds are pigeons! Aren't pigeons "rats with wings"? I don't associate pigeons with anything positive, so I'm not a big fan of the "Temple" trailer.

Favorite Dolby Digital trailer so far is "Train."

"Egypt" is lovely for mellow movies...or if you're doing a revival of STARGATE.

"Rain" was a disappointment. "Canyon" is murky looking.

"City" is cruel-and-unusual punishment (lots of high-end) but it's the one I tend to use on loud, action-oriented movies.

------------------
And, hey! Let's be careful out there.

~Manny.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 02-26-2002, 07:16 PM:

>>How many DTS versions are there now?<<

Only two. 'Flying Disc' and 'Sonic Landscape'

-Aaron

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 02-26-2002, 08:33 PM:

I don't remember the title of the first digital-sound movie I saw, but I sure do remember the Dolby "Train" trailer. It was awesome! This was at Moyer's West 11th Movieland in Eugene, in a *real* THX-certified auditorium that was a GREAT place to see a movie. Alas, it's now closed...

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-27-2002, 10:53 AM:

First time hearing Dolby Stereo: PLATOON (1986) at the AMC Omni 10 Theatres in Miami.

First time seeing a movie with my glasses on was in 1991 when I went to see THE DOORS at the AMC Omni 10. Another first for me at that theatre...and another Oliver Stone movie. Just a coincidence.

BTW, that AMC was eventually closed down. Not enough screens, I guess?

Can you imagine how strange I felt realizing that for most of my movie-watching life I was seeing them out-of-focus?

I heard my first Dolby Digital feature in December, 1992. The movie was BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA at the Mann's Chinese in Los Angeles. They used the "Train" trailer and (I think) the "Cimarron" THX logo.

I heard my first DTS in 1993 when JURASSIC PARK was released. I flew over to Miami and saw it in a GCC auditorium with THX certification. A great presentation.

As for SDDS I can't recall when/where because working at AMC's Old Pasadena 8 Theatres has made it all a blur.

------------------
And, hey! Let's be careful out there.

~Manny.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 02-27-2002, 08:03 PM:

Dolby Digital in 1992???

I always thought the digital time line was CDS>DTS>Dolby Digital>SDDS.

It may have been a CDS print perhaps?

-Aaron

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-27-2002, 08:16 PM:

Nope, SRD was out before DTS came around.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-27-2002, 08:20 PM:

Dolby Digital was introduced in 1992 with BATMAN RETURNS.

True, it wasn't publicly rolled-out with that movie, but it certainly existed in 1992.

DTS debuted the following year with JURASSIC PARK.

------------------
And, hey! Let's be careful out there.

~Manny.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 02-27-2002, 08:26 PM:

Weren't SR-D soundtracks printed on some general-release movies for test purposes even earlier than 1992? For some reason I'm thinking the very first movie in circulation with SR-D was a Star Trek film, maybe ST6? The point was to put an SR-D film into general circulation, then retrieve it after its normal theatrical run so Dolby Labs could analyze how well the SR-D data held up in the "real world" after hundreds of plays. (It wasn't being played in digital though -- this was kind of a dry run)

------------------
- dave
Look at this! His chin strap has been cut!

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 02-28-2002, 12:58 AM:

I too have read reports stating the Star Trek : The Undiscovered Country released in 1991 was the FIRST release to include Dolby Digital. It was released into the mainstream in the Summer 1992 with the release of Batman Returns.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-28-2002, 01:53 AM:

STAR TREK VI may indeed have been the first test, but BATMAN RETURNS was definitely *not* the mainstream rollout. It is often cited as the first test release of Dolby Digital.

Maybe it is true that the resiliency of the code was being tested and not the actual playback devices.

I will try to get the official story from Dolby because this is something I'd really like to know for sure.

Maybe I'll turn it into a trivia slide!

------------------
And, hey! Let's be careful out there.

~Manny.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-28-2002, 02:08 AM:

If anyone finds a Dolby rep who knows the specifics on this, ask how many test prints were made. I think I would have noticed the SRD track in between the sprockets when I built up that movie.

Also, was there anything on the tracks? Did it carry a full 6 channel SRD signal, or was it just dead silence, or what?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-28-2002, 07:35 PM:

"Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country" was the first film to feature a test print featuring a Dolby Digital audio track. Unadvertised test screenings happened in Los Angeles. "Newsies" (released in the Spring of 1992) was another Dolby Digital test film. "Batman Returns" in the Summer of 1992 was the first official release. The debut of Dolby Digital happened some 16 months after Dolby's initial press release to hype the impending debut of Dolby Digital.

The announcement was critically well-timed to steal some thunder from the "official" roll out of Optical Radiation Corp's 35mm version of Cinema Digital Sound with "The Doors". It is widely disputed that "Edward Scissorhands" actually had the first 35mm CDS print, reportedly run at the GCC Avco in Los Angeles. The Ziegfeld Theater in New York had the only other CDS print, a 70mm verison.

DTS debuted on nearly 800 screens with "Jurassic Park" (which would seem to be some kind of a record in terms of size for a new sound format's debut). SDDS was debuted in 1993 as well with "The Last Action Hero" on screens in New York and Los Angeles. But after that screening, most SDDS showcases happened only in one AMC theater in Los Angeles and a theater in Tokyo. It took until the fall of 1994 for SDDS to come out of "test phase" and actually sell systems to movie theaters. I think that coincided with AMC's announcement to promise to equip all screens with SDDS.

Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 03-02-2002, 03:46 PM:

Bobby, do you have a good contact at THX who i can get in touch with to get some new THX logos, I'll have to get them sent to the U.K mind you. But it would be nice to have some other kinds. When we ask through our normal route, we just get sent the boring Broadway and TEX which we already have!
Cheers
Darren

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-03-2002, 03:29 AM:

I wish I had a good contact at THX. If so, I would be able to get one of Lucasfilm's fellows to come out to Altus Air Force Base and record the authentic sounds of a C5 Galaxy cargo jet doing a fly by for a future "THX Happens" snipe (a play off of "It Happened One Night" to keep with the Oscar winning films play for titles). Never in motion picture history has the sound of a C5 Galaxy ever been recorded faithfully. There is no other plane sound remotely close to that of a C5. Only a new C-17 gets in the neighborhood (and they have those at Altus AFB as well).

Ted Costas, a participant in this forum, is probably the best I could manage for THX contacts.

I do sympathize with the problem on getting good snipes. While I think the "Tex" trailers are kind of fun, the joke they provide gets kind of old after awhile. "Cavalcade" is kind of cool, but I cannot get past the fact that it is derivative of the "T2" DVD THX trailer. I hate "Broadway 2000" since it has no "oomph" to it and the regular "Broadway" trailer has just gotten to be too boring.

My favorite THX trailers continue to be "Grand" (which is great for a DTS equipped THX auditorium) or "Cimmaron" (which is perfect for a Dolby Digital equipped theater). Those are the only two I would be ordering if I had a choice.

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 03-03-2002, 09:48 AM:

In rec.arts.movies.tech Theo Gluck said "The NEWSIES Dolby Digital test was at The El Capitan Theater in Hollywood."