This is topic Filmguard Questions in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Keith Peticolas (Member # 971) on 08-20-2001, 05:23 PM:
Brad, you a god. Filmguard is the best thing since motion pictures were invented. Here is my problem. I run six projectors and only have one Kelmar cleaner. What would be the best way to protect all my prints with Fg. Buying more cleaners is not possible at this time. So far, I have tried to hit the prints as they come in but in some cases I'll have 2 or more prints opening and not enough time to protect all of them. I guess I need to know the recommended minimum times you would treat a new print? Once again thanks for giving us a great tool in the projectionist's arsenal. If you are ever in Alaska I will buy you the best seafood dinner you have ever had. You rock!------------------
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 08-20-2001, 06:30 PM:
The best way to cycle a cleaner using FG (on a 6-plex or less)is to run it all day on one machine, then the following day, reload the media and place it on the next machine, and so on. For places with more than 6 screens you would have to change the unit out after each film has had a couple passes thru the cleaner.In most cases we run the cleaner on all new prints (assuming they are in the big house) and do touch-up treatments as needed on the smaller houses.
Aaron
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-20-2001, 08:00 PM:
I would recommend basically what Aaron said. An example senario for a 6 plex with 2 new prints opening on Friday:***load up new media pads and saturate them***
Fri...brand new print #1
***change to new media pads (save Friday's pads) and saturate them***
Sat...brand new print #2
***keep same media pads from Saturday, but re-saturate them***
Sun...print #3
***keep same media pads from Saturday, but re-saturate them***
Mon...print #4
***load up media pads from Friday and re-saturate them***
Tue...print #5
***keep same media pads from Friday, but re-saturate them***
Wed...print #6
Thu...use the cleaner for any touch-ups you feel necessary (or put it on a film that is expected to play for a long time). Be sure to throw away all media pads used that week and start fresh every Friday.
This way you can hit all of your prints for a full day's worth of running all week long with only using 2 sets of media pads. That'll last you an entire month on one box and one bottle of FilmGuard should be enough for everything in a month's span as well.
Another tip...If you are buying Film-Tech brand media pads, our new ones (as of the last few months now) are being loaded to the maximum the cleaning machines can handle and cutting them in half will double the effective number of "rolls" you will get in a box.
Final note...If you are having shedding problems on the 2nd new print that will not get cleaned until Saturday, take a cloth and spray some FilmGuard on it fairly generously and with the platter spinning at a good speed, wipe the top of the print slowly starting from the outer edge and wiping toward the center. Run the first show "soundtrack upside down" from normal practice and repeat for the other side. This trick won't actually clean your print, but it will stop most of the shedding and cut most of the static.
Glad you like it.
Posted by Keith Peticolas (Member # 971) on 08-24-2001, 05:28 PM:
Thanks for the tips guys. Very handy.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 08-24-2001, 06:29 PM:
When I was running the projector at the college theatre, I would put clean pads on for the final test screening of a print and reuse them for the (one or two) go-shows. The next week I would use those pads to clean the next print by speed winding it on the platter right after the build. If the pads were still reasonably clean I'd keep them on for the first test screening. (I'd often have to repair crappy splices and soundtrack thumps, etc. -- KPF prints, Y'Know!) Then, when the print was repaired to my satisfaction I'd give it one more screening with clean pads.
Then I'd repeat the process for the next week's movie. Except for emulsion scratches, I could get near-perfect presentation out of a crappy Kit Parker print! (Anybody who's had a KPF print will know that they can look like they've been dragged through the parking lot. That's saying a lot for the powers of FilmGuard right there! 
)
Posted by Bob Peticolas (Member # 328) on 09-01-2001, 05:17 PM:
A question - would Film Guard be worth the trouble for a small house that runs one new feature a week with nine to twelve showings only?We run one show daily, three on Sunday, and sometimes a late showing on Friday and/or Saturday nights if it's a very popular film.
If we ran the first showing through a cleaner with Film Guard, would the film stay in good shape throughout it's run? We have PTR rollers which are cleaned daily, would the Film Guard treatment replace the PTR system?
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-01-2001, 08:02 PM:
Yes it would definitely help, but since FG is designed to "ideally" be used for a week at a time without having to change pads or re-saturate the cleaning media, you mine as well get the benefit by letting it run on every show....and yes, you would not need the PTRs.
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-01-2001, 08:18 PM:
Bob P.:The situation you describe is almost exactly the same as mine here, except we only run one show on Sunday.
We have been using FG for about 4 months and it works great. Another believer here!
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 09-02-2001, 02:31 AM:
If you are running Filmguard, you can sell your PTR's. You'll never use them again. Mine have however made themselves very useful as paper weights.------------------
"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage' - Indiana Jones.
Posted by Bob Peticolas (Member # 328) on 09-02-2001, 03:23 PM:
OK, thanks for the answers. Now, the next question: Where can I find pictures of the Kelmar cleaner in use? I can find lots of publicity photos of the hardware (with Film Guard bottles in front of it) but no pictures of a cleaner actually in use with film going through it.I checked the "manuals" section here but just found line drawings that don't really tell the story. Before I go out and spend $600+ on something I want to be sure that I can mount it and use it.
Does anyone have any closeups of the cleaner mounted and running film through it?
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-02-2001, 04:03 PM:
What make of projector and platter are you running?
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 09-02-2001, 07:33 PM:
There are some in 'threading 101'. I thought the same way you do. I'm running Kinoton FP30's and Kinoton platters...believe me, if I can get the cleaner to work in THAT scenario, it can be done on anything.------------------
"There's so much I don't know about Astro-Physics...wish I'd read that book by that wheel chair guy" Homer Simpson
Posted by Bob Peticolas (Member # 328) on 09-03-2001, 11:03 AM:
I'm running a SPECO platter system into a Brenkert projector. The platters are on the operator side of the projector. I have the PTR rollers mounted on the top of the platter tower to clean the film as it leaves the tower.
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 09-03-2001, 02:19 PM:
>>I'm running a SPECO platter system into a Brenkert projector.<<Then it should be easy to add the Kelmar cleaner. The cleaner comes with a projector bracket that will mount perfectly atop the Brenkert (or on top of any digital/mag penthouse readers you might have).The top reel arm/platter hardware mounts on top of the bracket. You might have to radically alter your top guidance pulley to accomodate running the machine with or without the cleaner (in many cases the angles change slightly between 'cleaner on' and 'cleaner off'). If you want to add this to the platter, you will likely have to drill and tap your platter tree and get a platter bracket from Kelmar. (the only platters that come factory ready for this cleaner are the Christie AW3/MW3's). Good luck!
And yes, Throw away the PTRs, They are not compatible with FG and the FG solution may actually destroy the PTR surfaces. (you will never want to use a set of PTRs again anyways after using FG!)
Aaron
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-03-2001, 05:15 PM:
Some Brenkerts had a thick changeover support bracket that will require a tall set of spacers to put a film cleaner on top.For those that want to see a film cleaner projector mounted, check out the South Branch Cinema 6 photos in the gallery.
Steve
------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-03-2001, 05:54 PM:
Here is a pic of the film cleaner in action on top of a Simplex XL. The platter (Potts) is behind the camera, much like you have said yours is set up. 
The rest of the pics are in the warehouse, under Mercyhurst College.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-03-2001, 06:20 PM:
And here's an ideal place to store your rewinder core when you have the cleaner mounted on the platter. 
Unfortunately, just standing the core there makes it very easily tipped over if you aren't careful. However, using a spare "shoulder, media takeup shaft PN#7508260" and a 1 1/4 inch bolt with "fine threads" will get you this handy dandy solution. (Core moved to the left for a visual comparison in this picture.) 
Partial due credit goes to Joe Redifer on this.
Posted by John Schulien (Member # 215) on 09-04-2001, 12:19 PM:
About two months ago, I brought out some films from my 16mm collection for a backyard screening. Two films -- a lab mint mylar cartoon, and a treasured 1966 IBTech original. Both had been previously treated with Filmguard.So as I was setting up the projector, I had everything sitting out on a table. I wanted to clear some room, so I picked up a sled that was sitting on a shelf overhead ...
... which turned out to be filled with rainwater, which went cascading down onto the film. Talk about a sinking feeling! Disaster!
I grabbed the film and shook the loose water off. I did notice that it was beaded up on the film, not soaking in. -- it wasn't penetrating. Ok ... time to act fast ... I ran inside with the films and mounted the first wet reel on the rewinds. I sprayed about three shots of filmguard on each side of the reel, then ran the slippery, over-lubricated film back and forth through the rewinds, passing the film through a folded cotton t-shirt as I went to take off both water droplets and excess filmguard. I did this for all four reels.
When I was done, I screened the films, and there was no, repeat NO water damage evident. Without the filmguard, both films would have certainly been destroyed on the spot. I was just amazed. Not only does the filmguard coating protect against dirt and scratches, but it appears to be an extremely effective waterproofing agent.
The bottle paid for itself right then and there!
Posted by Bob Peticolas (Member # 328) on 09-08-2001, 12:42 PM:
Guys, Thanks for the pictures (and the testimonials). As soon as I can, I'm going to get Filmguard.
Posted by Keith Peticolas (Member # 971) on 09-16-2001, 10:01 PM:
Dad, I told you, Film Guard rocks! Except for the smell.
k
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 09-16-2001, 10:49 PM:
The smell (more like a strong 'fragrance') is worth putting up with. Just don't enhale too long and if you are cleaning manually, try and do it in a ventilated area or keep a desk fan blowing nearby.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-16-2001, 10:55 PM:
Oh, I don't know. I think FilmGuard smells rather good. Not in a "this smells nice" way but in a "functional" way. The smell kind of goes along with its function. It smells "clean", which is what it does... clean the film.Another one of my favorite chemical smells is Hoppe's #9 gun cleaner. It's one of those smells I grew up with. Again, when I smell it I am reminded of what it does. It cleans and lubricates guns. There's also a kind of nostalgia that is recalled when I smell it because it reminds me of the times when I was sitting on the floor with my father after comming home from a hunting trip.
Finally, I actually prefer the smell to be somewhat strong or "repulsive". It helps people who may not have as much experience with these kinds of chemicals remember that they aren't trifling with some kind of "toy".
Posted by Keith Peticolas (Member # 971) on 09-17-2001, 12:02 AM:
Good points, Gents. But tell it to my wife who complains about having to smell it on my clothes and hands. Seriously, F.G. is great and worth the smell.
k
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-17-2001, 02:24 AM:
Don't get any on your clothes and wash what little amount you get on your hands after you are done messing with it. Either that or divorce your wife. Both solutions are simple.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-17-2001, 02:31 AM:
yeah - I finally recognized the smell of Film-Guard. It smells like the sweeping compound the janitor used when I was in grade school back in the '40's. Being an old die-hard, I am not totally sold on that stuff. I am using it on a trial basis. Time will tell, but the above testimonials seem to be very promising.
Paul
Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 09-17-2001, 04:26 PM:
I don't mind the smell, I think it's fairly pleasant. When my wife complains about the lube oil smell I bring home from the machine shop, I tell her "It smells like...victory!"...I mean,..."money!" (My dad used to work at the pulp mill in north Everett and used to say the same thing) Paul I bet you like FG it's great stuff------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/
Posted by Keith Peticolas (Member # 971) on 09-17-2001, 08:30 PM:
Hmm, a divorce or a shower. Wonder if I get a free bottle if I leave my wife. Paul, you will learn the true power of FG and become a true believer!
k
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-17-2001, 08:57 PM:
We'll see. So far the results are good. Nobody commented on the "long term effects" of that stuff. That seems to ba an issue with the users of that stuff.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 09-28-2001, 06:47 AM:
So Paul, how's the tests going?BTW...the fragrance of FilmGuard sure beats the hell outa that toxic stench that comes from the folks at FilmTreat in L.A.
Peeeew!
I told the booker the other day I'd prefer crapped out 2nd hand prints so long as they were untreated by that smelly, stinky coating crap they put on it.
He thought I was kidding until I convinced him otherwise...
This week we opened with sneaks of America's Sweethearts and they are 2nd hand but he's sent me an untreated print.
Guess what? After one run...she's looking brand spankin' new.
As Mr. Tinkles says in Cats and Dogs...
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
------------------
Dr. Hibbert: Homer, this is your physician, Dr. Julius Hibbert. Can you tell us what it's like in there?
Homer: Um...did anyone see the movie "Tron"?
Hibbert: No.
Lisa: No.
Marge: No.
Bart: No.
Patty: No.
Ned: No.
Selma: No.
Frink: No.
Lovejoy: No.
Chief Wiggum: Yes. Er...I mean no.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-28-2001, 12:02 PM:
I ordered a bottle last week. It is back ordered. Seems the guys who make the bottles to put the stuff in can't get their act in one box. That's Tennessee for ya! A bunch of toothless "Hicks" Gotta wait another week to a week and a half to get it now. 
Paul
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-28-2001, 01:41 PM:
Paul - Where did you order from? We got a bottle from GTS recently. (Mark G.)
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-28-2001, 05:09 PM:
Mike, I ordered it through my jobber. I would probably guess Mark had his in stock. Paul
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-28-2001, 08:43 PM:
Many dealers try to keep it in stock...there recently has been a huge backorder though. I think we have a bottle or two left with another case coming soon.Steve
------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"