This is topic Westrex R9 mag penthouse in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 09-16-2001, 02:49 PM:
whats the word on these? I have one and thinking about turning it into a DTS reader. My only concern being the high tension used to keep the flyweels spinning. Perf damage could result, but then again these were designed to run on acetate stock.What do you think?
Josh
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-16-2001, 03:27 PM:
I guess the first question is why not just use the DTS reader as is?
The R9 is a very stable mag penthouse it is also the only one other than the motiograph that will sync ona century without adapter plates
On the DTS issue I used to mount the reader in many simplex and motio penthouses in theatres that had too much slack forming in the payout of there platters causing a speed fluctuation across the dts reader that caused drop outs
the newer firmware didn't require it 
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 09-16-2001, 03:50 PM:
DTS readers dont look as cool as the old penthouses do. besides that, the mag heads in mine are shot and I dont want to go hunting for a new one.Josh
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-16-2001, 04:01 PM:
You will end up loosing the door and cutting the front off
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 09-16-2001, 04:44 PM:
Not if you build the reader's guts from scratchJosh
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-16-2001, 04:46 PM:
you do like to reinvent the wheel 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-17-2001, 01:58 AM:
Josh, just keep up your dreams and ambitions. From time to time, the "wheel" has to be not only re-invented, but modified. Remember in 1900, some idiot said, "All that can be invented or made better has already been done".
HAH!!!! Now we have automatic toilet flushers in the theaters that "inspect" the user as he or she gets up off the seat. Then the toilet flushes.
Electronics might be getting too personal... We have two such devices in our new tri-plex, and already, some lady was complaining about one of those devices. 
(I am not kidding)
Paul
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-17-2001, 02:20 AM:
Paul,I went into the facility at a rest stop in Switzerland one time while on a trip from Belgium to Italy. When I finished, I turned around and looked for the flusher. I couldn't find it and I must have stood there for five minutes with a stupid look on my face. It wasn't until I saw a guy in the stall next to me step on this tiny little button embedded in the floor that I figured out how to flush.
It was kind of embarrassing, not knowing how to do something so simple as flushing the crapper!
I hear the facilities in Japan can be even worse!
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-17-2001, 02:48 AM:
Randy, when I was in Japan in 1962, the natives simply "watered" the side of a building, or used a Binjo Ditch. (spelling may be wrong.)Seen it! But didn't do it.
I have heard of some of our young sailors getting drunk on their butt and falling face first into those ditches. Not the most tastiest thing to think about.
Also, that tiny button may have been a frog. (kinda like stepping on a plumb that goes "Pbpthbpthbthp!")
Paul
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 09-17-2001, 03:37 AM:
Paul: We had the Binju ditches all over the place in Korea as well. What lovely odors emanating from them during the summer... 
Randy: We have the floor button flushers in our Clearlake Cinemas, both for the toilets and the urinals... Pretty cool.
Aaron
Posted by John Anastasio (Member # 607) on 09-17-2001, 04:57 AM:
Bravo for you, Josh. I wish that some of my students were as amitious as you are. As long as you have a light source (like an LED) and something to focus it with that will only read through the timecode marks onto a solar cell that's sensitive to the frequency of the source, it should output the code properly. I don't see why an IR LED wouldn't work. The hard part is going to be getting the optics just right so that the spot is the right size and in the proper location...and bright enough. Watch out, Kelmar!
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-17-2001, 07:28 AM:
John said: "I don't see why an IR LED wouldn't work."A red LED would be a better choice. Film dyes are relatively transparent to infrared energy, and the DTS timecode track is at the edge of the area that is now "applicated" in the lab to redevelop silver in the analog soundtrack. When cyan dye analog soundtracks are implemented, there will be no silver to modulate infrared light, and a red LED will be required.
------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
Posted by John Anastasio (Member # 607) on 09-17-2001, 04:27 PM:
John's absolutely right, of course. One of the new high intensity red LED's would be perfect, and they're dirt cheap. You'll need to run it off a really well-filtered power supply, but considering the amount of current an LED uses, that should be simple to build. You could even take a tap off your exciter supply.
Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 09-17-2001, 06:36 PM:
Just for the record, the term is "benjo." The chinese character (the Japanese use the same characters) pronounced "ben" can mean either "excrement" or "convenient" depending on context; "jo" means "place." So, you do your business in a "convenient place." Yes we still have benjo ditches out in the sticks, but city slickers now all have flushing ceramics. But most are the asian "squat" style--much more hygenic once one gets used to it. You only find the "sit down" style in places where westerners are expected.
Pedantically yours,
Paul
SMPTE Hollywood Section
"Otaku wa tsurai yo!" <-- Bad Japanese pun. So sue me.
It's tough being a fan.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-17-2001, 08:49 PM:
John Anastasio, I think Josh can probably make that work.John Pytlak, Yes, red LED's are the way to go for the reasons you cited.
Paul Mayer - thanks for the info on Benjo Ditches. All I wanted to know in one neat little paragraph.
Paul
Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 09-18-2001, 08:28 PM:
Josh,Sorry, it won't work. You must use a DTS reader to read DTS timecode.
Karen at DTS
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 09-18-2001, 08:48 PM:
Karen...I think Josh wants to take the electronics and optics from the DTS reader and retrofit them into the mag head, which with the proper alignment procedures is quite possible.
Aaron
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-18-2001, 08:56 PM:
Aaron, I think so, too. Josh, let's re-invent the wheel.
Posted by Jon Bartow (Member # 241) on 09-19-2001, 07:23 AM:
Re-inventing the wheel is fine, but if you plan on using this thing in a comercial theater you could get in trouble with US Patent Law.
Just be careful.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-19-2001, 12:20 PM:
Copying is one thing and then re-selling it under a different name will definately get someone in trouble. Re-designing is another. Just like Simplex and Century. Just like Potts Platters and Christie Platters. Just like QSC and BGW. Just like Dolby Labs and Ultra-stereo.
Thanks for the warning, though. But for what we do as a project, I don't think there is any worry. Things are done like this to expand our knowledge base, and nothing more at this time.
Paul
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-19-2001, 10:10 PM:
Now, that kid from North Dakota and I are going to re-invent the wheel. It may take some time, but we are going to do it.
Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 09-24-2001, 12:39 PM:
Josh,It is best to use the DTS reader and not retrofit the projector.
The optics is the hardest thing to correctly calibrate and takes a lto of time to get right. You must use the circuitry in the reader to "condition" the timecode (calibrating voltage, amplitude, and filtering out noise).
The other part of the equation is the offset. DTS must have a minimum of 16 frames (ahead of the picture aperture) in order to correctly playback DTS digital soundtrack. Otherwise, you compromise the seamless editing feature of the DTS system.
Karen at DTS