This is topic Burned Frames in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 09-18-2001, 04:56 PM:
This will seem like an odd request, but do any of you have burned frames that you have cut out of prints? I have collected a few that I have had to remove over the years, and I looking to shoot some macro photographs of the burned frames. I think they make for interesting imagery. I can't really offer any money, but I would pay postage both ways if anyone can help me out. Thanks,Joe Beres
Madison, WI
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-18-2001, 05:07 PM:
I get burned frames a lot at my old crappy-ass theatre. 
I will try to rember to save them for you.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-18-2001, 05:38 PM:
Just take a trailer and run it, stopping the projector motor wherever you want a burned frame. Make sure to find something deserving though, like Mummy Returns.
Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 09-18-2001, 05:42 PM:
Thanks, Brad. Eventually, I think I will end up doing exactly that, but I like the idea of using frames "killed in action" if they can be found.
Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 09-18-2001, 07:48 PM:
Or perhaps . . . Freddy Got Fingered . . . 
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-18-2001, 08:50 PM:
For record, I like Tom Green.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-18-2001, 09:24 PM:
Why?
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-18-2001, 11:32 PM:
Make yourself a loop of film and get it running. Then stop the motor and let the projector coast down. When it slows down enough to burn the film, take your hand and keep spinning the flywheel. Not only will you be able to make more frames, you'll be able to "regulate" the amount of burn on the frames by how fast you spin the wheel.Also, it's a good way to help insure you don't burn the shutter.
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-19-2001, 10:56 AM:
Randy said: "Then stop the motor and let the projector coast down. When it slows down enough to burn the film, take your hand and keep spinning the flywheel. Not only will you be able to make more frames, you'll be able to "regulate" the amount of burn on the frames by how fast you spin the wheel."Some older projectors may still have a centrifugal fire shutter, which automatically closed if the projector slowed down (required in the days of flammable nitrate film). So you may also need to hold that shutter open if you want to burn some frames. Dark scenes will burn faster than light scenes, since they absorb more energy. If you are publicly displaying these images as artwork or selling them, don't forget that the images are usually copyrighted.
------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-19-2001, 01:53 PM:
I like Tom Green because he's funny in a stupid way. But it's supposed to be like that.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-19-2001, 02:27 PM:
Well, Tom Green certainly doesn't have the ability nor talent to be anything else.
Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 02-26-2002, 06:20 PM:
Frames "killed in action"? Why not?Any "Oscar Bait" release from Miramax will do.
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 02-26-2002, 06:59 PM:
Tom Green 
I feel sorry for his parents and some of the crap he reportedly pulled on them, like the slut mobile. If that scum was my kid, god forbid, I would literally have beaten the out of him long ago, a frontal lobotomy and permanent institution in a psych hospital would not be a bad idea, either!About burned frames and letting motors coast down....some of the soundheads like the Simplex SH1000 and RCA units had a flywheel with a break. Remove the brake. Using the brake does nothing but put extra stress/wear on the entire projection gear train and could cause damage!
Posted by Paul Harnden (Member # 1034) on 02-26-2002, 07:46 PM:
I had some burned frames from "Emperor's New Groove" which were BIA. I put some scotch tape around them for preservation, but lost them a while later.....
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-26-2002, 07:58 PM:
What projectors _don't_ have fire shutters? All the Simplexes and Centurys that I've seen do. I don't remember about V5s at the moment...
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-26-2002, 09:25 PM:
Fire shutters are an option on Simplex and Century for theatre projectors (standard on studio projectors) nowadays. I remember when they got omitted...they polled the dealers and said: "Price increase or omit the fire shutter" Well they decided to omit with the add option (-x3 on the order codes)...most have forgotten they exisited now! I believe the following year a price increase happened! How to set the Simplex fire shutter is something that baffles most technicians. It is actually quite cleaver and and be set to work perfectly without fear of it dropping into the picture but most techs don't get that there are about 5 points on the whole mechanism to be set for it to be reliable. Euro projectors have normally had the changeover dowser do dual duty. Most Euro projectors have the douser held open electrically, if the the motor stops, the douser is let go. Even the AAII had this feature with it's centrifugal switch in the upper base.
Steve
------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-26-2002, 09:53 PM:
A lot of the new simplexs don't have a fire shutter
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-27-2002, 07:59 PM:
All of the Westar's (Century) that are in my care have the centrifugal fire dowser. I just recently had to realign something like five of them (dropping into picture) because the last guy maintaining these machines didn't really know what he was doing. There's all sorts of oddities to correct.------------------
And, hey! Let's be careful out there.
~Manny.
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 02-28-2002, 09:11 AM:
I've had the fire shutter on my Simplex XL engage and drop down to block the light path to the gate. The problem is, I can't get it to reset and go back into it's normal position. Is there a trick to this or what?------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Nashville, Tennessee
(Drive-In Theatre - Start-Up)
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-28-2002, 12:00 PM:
Well...Not sure about the Simplex, but on the Century there is a set-screw that aligns the fire dowser to the shaft. Like just about any other screw, these can vibrate loose over time.------------------
And, hey! Let's be careful out there.
~Manny.
Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 02-28-2002, 10:57 PM:
Barry:
As already mentioned, there are several things that can mess up the fire shutter operation.
Adjustment is done in stages. First check the shutter assembly itself. The pivot points tend to wear, so the shutter might be sloppy on its pivot or the linkage might be sloppy.
Now check the actuating lever is free. Pry the governor open and check the arm travels freely.
The first setting is the governor clearance, via an eccentric adjuster on the oily side near the pivot. The arm should be above the governor pin just a bit when the governor is fully retracted (full proj speed). This eliminates wear on the pin or arm when the machine is at full speed. Too much clearance and the lever won't travel enough.
The 3 screws holding the operating side lever on the pivot pin have to be snug.
The lever travel and position is roughly set by turning the pivot shaft after loosening the setscrews in the back lever body.
Final adjustment is via the tiny adjusting plate on the gate end of the actuating lever. The shutter should cover the aperture when down, and clear the light cone when open.
The trip arm unit (a wire loop thingy that covers the upper loop) is almost undoubtedly been removed. It is for nitrate film safety and is a pontless annoyance in "safety film only" booths. If it is there and not a problem leave it, if it is the culprit take it out. completely.
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-01-2002, 11:14 AM:
And when Dave says completely....take out the operating shaft the wire-bail inserts into. It depends on the weight of the wire-bail to keep it in the non-tripped position. Once removed, I have found in some instances that the shaft rotated and was always on the verge of dropping the fire shutter.Steve
------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 03-01-2002, 12:44 PM:
One of the favourite problems on the Westar fire shutter is the small plastic (tufnol??) pin on the weighted end of the fire shutter, this pin is in constant contact with the Watt-Governor assembly, it needs to be lightly greased occasionally, if not greased it wears, leaving a 'flat', which can make the fire-shutter jerky and sometimes jam altogether. Fortunately if it's worn you can usually turn it 90 degrees and get it working properly, remembering to grease the thing!
Another thing I've seen with a Westrex mech was a fire shutter that always seemed to leak light. I adjusted the weights, cleaned and lubed the mech, turned the pin, and finally took the whole shutter out for a look-see, guess what I found? Some dumbass had left the lamp on the back of the fire-shutter for, well quite some time, and burned a hole in the poor thing.
Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 03-01-2002, 03:01 PM:
Time to get this thread back on topic.Burned frames? Why not? Do it with any Miramax "Oscar Bait" picture (The English Patient, Shakespeare in Love, Life is Beautiful, The Cider House Rules, Chocolat, In the Bedroom). Better yet, do it on "Ghetto Tuesday" in a dollar house equipped with a Smart-Mod IIC pumping out rap music.
Hey, for 50 cents you can't go wrong. 
Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 03-01-2002, 07:40 PM:
If your Simplex is not equipped with a fire shutter,remove the governor from the vertical shaft & install a shaft collar in place.
This is what I did with my Simplex 1014.