Supposing there was a union where I live, what would be the advantages of working for them? I really love being a manager (I get to run shifts on the floor) as well as being a projectionist. Does that ever happen with union projectionists? I've just always been curious about how the projection union works, so I want to get all my questions answered. thx!
 

The Two Boots Pioneer Theater in the East Village (a twin) drew pickets when it opened last year as a non-union shop.

Sites I'm not quite sure of on union status are the arthouses: Lincoln Plaza (6 screens), Quad (4), Film Forum (3), Screening Room (twin), Paris (single). Can anyone working in NYC confirm this?

So lets say you're a union member. You love your job. (I love my job. Don't make much, but I don't really care. I'm happy. ) What if the union wants to picket for some reason. Do you continue to work?
 

In AZ, you cannot be management and be in a union.

In AZ, the demise of IATSE Projectionists started around 1978. There are quite a number of newspaper articles in the AZ Daily Star and Tucson Citizen about the demise of IATSE around Southern AZ. The demise and IATSE Union strikes were big news because Tucson was still really a small town back then--the picture show being one of the staples of entertainment! Most of the theaters were large one and two screen houses--most of which are either closed or have been converted to large multi-plexes.

Unfortunately the demise of IATSE was a nasty affair. Theater owners accused the Projectionists of featherbedding big time! I have spoken with some of the IATSE guys who said that in reality this was true. Theater owners also claimed that IATSE Projectionists were no longer needed because of automation and safety film--that no one was needed in the booth and that it only took 60sec to thread a machine.

When the IATSE Projectionists did strike and were finally laid off, there were reports of IATSE Projectionists vandalizing booths and equipment and having private security and police escort them from the booths and theaters.

I also heard reports about inner racial tension within the union.

The only (to my knowledge) IATSE projectionists working in AZ are the few guys at the DeAnza Drive In.

Because AZ is a Right To Work State--heaven help the person who wants to bring the union into work. The exceptions being government workers/contractors for the most part!

Also, I don't expect to get paid $20 an hour to thread a few machines, press start, and sit around the rest of the time. I want to be a real projectionst. The best I can. It sounds to me like some people have had bad impressions of union projectionists because they got away with doing very little. I don't know if that's the case, but that's not the way I would be.

So do any circuits have "real projectionists" that aren't union?
 

What you have to understand is what it was like when unions started. The average workday was 12 hours. The average workweek was 6 days. Sometimes, people were forced to work 'swing shifts,' in other words work 24 hours straight. Since government would take no regulatory action in these matters, workers had to organize to be able to negotiate better conditions-collective bargaining. Needless to say, the factory managers were not keen on this idea. Armed thugs and many times the police would come in and 'break a few skulls' with clubs to disperse picketers. Many times the national gaurd was even called out and fired upon the picketers. Death was not an uncommon thing on the picket lines. This was the struggle for workers rights in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

Now enter the projectionist union. I am not certain how and when it started, I'll let someone else fill in those details. Naturally early projectionists did not have to contend with 'swing shifts,' but I imagine the hours could be atrocious. To understand the working conditions, you must understand how film was shown back then. There were no platters, all movies were shown on a change over system. There were no xenon bulbs, light was provided by carbon rods that had to be changed after every reel. Most importantly, the film had a different chemical composistion than modern film. This film-Nitrate film to be exact-was highly combustable. If the projector stopped or jammed with the film in front of the light for just an instant it could burst into flames. Nitrate film is self-combusting, it does not need oxygen to burn since it gives off oxygen as a byproduct of combustion. This made any nitrate film fire very dangerous.

SO all those factors meant that the projectionist had to be in the booth all the time. Can you imagine being in a little box not much bigger than what was needed to fit in all the equipment for 10 hours with no air conditioning? Thus, the projectionist union.

For many years things were good in unionland. Running projectors back then was not an easy task. One had to be an expert in mechanical and electrical matters, being able to do repairs on a daily basis. And then something terrible happened, TV. When TV became big in the 50's, theatres saw their attendance drop by 50%. The golden age of movies was over. Thus began the 'decline.' I don't know too much about this and what I do know is second hand, but relations between owners and the union declined steadily. When automation and platters came about, it spelled doom for the union. When owners realized they could 'get by' paying a guy $3 an hour to do the job of a $20 an hour union guy, the union was dumped.

Who's fault the souring of relations and ultimate split was will depend on who you ask. I will not comment since I have no personal experience to relate and there are plenty of people here who do.
 

I assume that the issues with theatres getting fined for having non-union operators only exist in areas where there still is a projection union?
 

So if theatres signed contracts to have union-operated booths, they obviously wanted it that way for some reason, right? Why now do most of them not want that?
 

All that changed when platters and automation came about. Once unions could no longer threaten a strike without being replaced, well, that was the beginning of the end.
 

IATSE can be a an excellent way of insuring qualified technicians in the booth, excellent source for apprenticeship programs, insuring honest wages and benefits, etc.

On the other hand, IATSE members (and any union for that matter) must be willing to do an honest days work for these type of wages!

Century Theaters has a relatively new theater in Chicago. Now Century Theaters is definately anti union, but I did hear that they were going to try and negotiate with IATSE. IATSE refused to negotiate so Century gave up and went with non union projectionists. Anyone know/hear about this?

In my previous post, I forgot to add that IATSE did strike in Tucson in the late 1970s-early 1980's. Some walked off the job. The only reason some screens did not go dark was because 1 IATSE member left the Union and went to work directly for the theater company. He trained the nonunion kids, and the theaters were prepared for the union strike!
 

Instead of going back and forth on this thread, do you perhaps know of any place where I can read a really good thourough history of the industry?
 

But unfortunately it is not.
There is a LOT of overhead in theatres, much more so than other businesses.

------------------
--Sean McKinnon
Manager
Loews Cineplex Entertainment
Liberty Tree Mall 20
Danvers, Mass
www.enjoytheshow.com
 

So are you saying you agree with not having union operators?

After reading this thread, I am definitely starting to see both sides of the coin. Thanks, guys.

As to this industry, it is pathetic that there is no incentive for putting on a good presentation. Theatres can not make money by showing the movie...as such why should they put anything extra into showing it? Check any study and you will find that the bulk of the movie goers will go to the closest theatre playing the film they want to see, regardless of presentation quality. After deciding on the film, then such things as cup-holders and stadium seating (or not) are considered.

Overall presenatation just doesn't seem to be a measurable thing. Now that said, the theatre I work, the Uptown, seems to out gross all the theatres in the area on any given title despite not having any parking and not being close to the vast majority of it's patrons. It is a huge single screen house (another anomoly these days) and sloped floor on the lower level, stadium in the balcony. The only explanation for it doing so much better than the competition has to be attributed to perceived presenatation...that is...the huge Cinerama screen with curtains and digital sound...plus the atmosphere of going to an old showplace. Oh and as far as the theatre chain (LCE) goes, it is the only theatre that has full-time union operators for the entire day, every day. This theatre has never lost money, to the best of my knowledge. Why? It sure doesn't fit the mold of today's ideal cinema model. Today's theatres and business plans have landed all the big chains in bankruptcy. In fact, the only time when the movie industry was a thriving business that didn't compete for mediocraty is when this type of theatre was the norm. Again, the only thing it has going for it, really, is a perceived presentation by uneductated consumers (lets face it, most movie goers already think we run the films off of tape or DVD). They have no idea what it takes to put on a show.

The industry and the world in general would be a better place if there were fewer screens and those that were left were very high quality so that going out to the movies was something special to be looked forward too. To me, the idea of having a business where the main purpose (showing the movie) is perverted into selling the food as a means of survival is just plain stupid and inherently doomed. This is not all the exhibitor's fault but certainly partly theirs, from an historical standpoint. They will always offer to take a little less to get their product (look at the absurd agreements entered into when Star Wars EP 1 came out, what idiots). The studios are certainly not clear here either, they want too much so that the exhibitor can make a profit by just showing the movie nor do they insist on their product being shown and kept well....just think what would happen if exhibitors were held liable for the quality of the shows (and prints). So, in a sense, the studios could drive the quality of the cinema market.

I will end this little diatribe with...if you can't afford to have someone whose sole responsibility is to maintain the quality of the show (the PROJECTIONIST) then you really can't afford to be in business, the industry as a whole would be better off without your theatre. We need quality, not quantity. The union badge isn't a requirement but it sometimes helps or sometimes hurts. To anyone that thinks that what started the labor movement, unions, is now outdated...you are quite mistaken...as long as employers will try and get the most out of an employee while paying the least exists (that will be forever) unions will be needed to offset that situation...the key is to strike a balance...neither should be absolutely powerful.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

The breakup of exhibition and production was a primary factor in the lowering of standards... IF you hold that the unions of the time were the guardians of the standards, which I sometimes question. Until this, Paramount et al COULDN'T remove the union from the theatres without a backlash from the union personnel involved in production. If there was a single factor that allowed for the "busting" of the union, this breakup was it.

I've said it before, and I still believe it, the mega and multiplexes need to rent particular auditoriums *by the year* to the various distributors, and those auditoriums need to be clearly labeled with corporate logos. The only way the players in the industry will admit to any responsibility is if they have a responsibility from conception to presentation. Long term leases provide the theatre owner with a guaranteed income, and studios quickly have to adapt to providing quality product throughout the year to pay the rent, and insuring presentation quality at "their" auditoriums.

The problem of lower standards has less to do with the faults of any individual or group within the system than it does with the lack of an oversight or responsibility for the gestalt. Look at this simplified line:

Concept > Film stock > Production > Duplication > Distribution > Transport > Exhibition.

Each stage now represents a different company trying to suck out maximum profits from their share of the pie. Maximum profits inherently means that there is a balancing point of profits vs. quality. Unlike the publishing industry, where the major construction of the end product (book) has multiple complete paths to the consumer, movies must all pass through certain bottlenecks, which tends to homogenize the quality. I can pick up a book that is a poorly constructed romance paperback, or I can buy a high-end book that has stunning art and high quality paper and binding. If, OTOH, I look for a variation in movies, I get to see "Lawrence of Arabia" on the same spotted screen that showed "Freddie Got Fingered," while sitting in the same dirty seats, and having to deal with the same poor print inspection. The exhibition model is flawed, and it is a wonder that it held up as well as it did over the last fifty years.

Jerry, I don't agree with you here though I will agree that it was a factor in production losing interest in exhibition. Quality was high in yesteryear because it was simply expected by the public...remember what one got at the filling station? You got a car wash, oil checked tires checked...and gas pumped...now we all think we are so thrifty by pumping it ourselves (nevermind that in NJ they still pump your gas for the same prices as self-serve in other areas).

Look at our industry today...Redstone owns Paramount and National Amusements (aka Showcase and Multiplex cinemas)...I don't see them having the ultimate standard of presentation, not even for Paramount product...Sony had their fingers in Loews, Cineplex while owning Columbia and Tri-Star...there are still the studio connections.

Before we even get to the theatres...the quality of the prints are just god awful. They contact print the intermediate stage to ensure maximum image unsteadiness. The whole poorly thoughtout polyester thing is another presentation loser as it seems to have made both film slitting and perforating more difficult and less uniform (and don't get me started on the absolutely dumb cyan track thingy) It's like they dumb down the film before the public gets to see it. Ever seen an EK print? I recently did a premier with one EK print and one release print...the difference is more than night and day...it is quality and trash.

As to the unions...I put them in 4 categories of evolution in this industry...there was the charter members....these were the guys that had it rough...it was hazardous work (nitrate you know) and there were no rules...thus they formed local unions to protect themselves from abuse physically and monitarily. Then came the "sons"...these were the guys that came in around WW2 and made not only a career but a craft out of the job. These are those old-timers that had to deal with the past and the new widescreen processes...whose booths were impecable who legends, at least in our area, still live on.

Then came the "sons of the sons." This is the group that started to lose it all. Platters came in on this group, xenon came in on this group and the attitude of the operators changed...the sons of the sons had the attitude of entitlement. They didn't learn the craft from their fathers as much as the short cuts....in our area, there were many reports of being drunk or high in the booth (this group came in in the '60s)...having met or worked with many of these people, it wasn't just a rumor...heck they will tell you the stories themselves. By the way, I metion the operators as male since that was just about all there were...in fact, up until not too long ago in Local #224 gave a seniority preference to the "first born son of a member. Well how long does it take before a theatre owner asks...how can I afford to pay this high-priced idiot to watch a platter (or reel) spin around while drunk or high and generally break more equipment than they fix? I can certainly pay someone a whole lot less for this quality without all the grief...considering that the movie industry was going through some tough times in the '70s. Certainly, this is a generalization and there are/were fine craftspeople in this group but it doesn't take too many rotten apples to spoil the barrel for everyone.

The last group of union operators is the one we are in now...the ones that seemingly have little connection to the origins and are, at times, apologizing for the misdeeds of yesteryear. Their technical prowse is often below where it should be for no other reason that they really didn't have any master operator to mentor them. They are often suffering from living in a time where society doesn't understand that labor unions can be a good thing and support a laborer's grievence by not crossing a picket line. They also suffer from the fact that being a projectionist is not considered a career move anymore. The government doesn't help matters by shifting the power way over to management side.

I maintain that trade unionism is a necessary evil that can benefit all workers within a trade, even if all of the workers are not unionized. All the government has to do is maintain the rules between employers and unions.

Steve

PS...obviously the above opinions and observations are strictly my own and do not necessarily reflect the people I work and associate with.
 

Gas stations are an odd situation. Gas stations were a natural for self-service once the safety issues were substantially addressed. Most guys can figure out that a nozzle has to fit into a hole before good things can happen.

Restaurants are sometimes vertically integrated. We have a Burger King near us that is a company store, and the headquarters are not that far away. The service and cleanliness is much better than many of the franchise stores. It isn't always the case, but sometimes vertical integration does work, even in today's environment.

I agree in principle that there is a need for unions, but I have problems that neither companies nor unions seem to admit much responsibility to the customer, especially when under duress. It seems to me that in the inevitable squabbles between union and management, the odd man out is often the customer, who suffers disruption of services, taunts from crossing picket lines, poor quality or even sabotaged products, and surly attitudes by both management and union. In extreme cases, the government sometimes has to step in and operate as ombudsman for the customer and general public, which is not a particularly good situation for anyone. These are the hazards and pitfalls of our society. They aren't pretty , but I guess the system works better than the socialism of France and some other countries.

I still think that it takes someone with both an overview of the situation and the ability to make changes to make any line of production work to provide the best possible product.
 

I have seen one too many occasions where the most undesireable person is retained--or in a position of authority simply because of senority or an ability to kiss up to da bosses. High senority people tend to think that they are untouchable because of senority--and it has also been my experience that these type of people also get very lazy and detrimental to quality job performance because senority makes them untouchable! I have also seen the most incompetitent and stupid people get promoted simply because they know how to kiss-up!

I have had the pleasure of working with people who are anything but PC! The majority of these people have a high level of ethics and are very straight forward and blunt--but honest. Unfortunately, many of them have failed to be promoted simply because playing politics and kissing up is more important than competitence!

As far as IATSE is concerned: one common complaint that I have heard from theater owners revolves around print deliveries. Shipper drops prints off at the box office. IATSE projectionists would not go to box office to get prints. Instead they would wait for theater floor personnel to deliver prints to the booth door, and projectionists would crack open the booth door, grab prints and slam door in theater personnels faces! If floor personnel failed to bring prints to the booth door, then the print would not be built and would not open on its appointed day ie Friday--an this supposedly happened many times!
 

70mm print film weighs about 10 pounds per 1000 feet. So a three hour 70mm print running 112.5 feet per minute weighs about 200 pounds.

I agree that a 70mm print might FEEL like it weighs 1200 lbs.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

He told me the following. 4screens 8 shows a night 6 days a week. Sound broadcast over FM radio. Anything over 7hrs per night=overtime. Build ups and tear downs are seperate extra fees. Overtime projector maintenance is seperate fees. Gets paid for dry runs if necessary. Full benefits, medical/dental/glasses, and retirement.

I was responsible for 10 screens per day in a all THX all digital 20 plex running no less than 30 shows during a 6-8hr shift. I described my daily responsibilities in "Shit Hot Presentation".

The fact is that I was responsible for much much more than the IATSE guys, and my salary/benefits came no where near matching theirs! Keep in mind that I was a projectionist at this theater and that I never worked the floor! And ya, I know what it is like to schlepp prints around!

Personally, I feel that if a person is going to collect those type of wages, then they better be willing to be a team player and do a little extra to help out, and not hide behind what they will and will not do as per Union Contract. Ya, there were several times when I helped clean auditoriums between shows--if I could spare the time--because floor staff was short handed. And there were several times when floor staff helped me out schlepping and moving prints. One hand helps the other to make a successful presentation. I know that there are IATSE projectionists out there who are older guys who might have trouble lugging stuff around. So be polite and ask for help--hell, are they totally incapasatated? With these type of wages, the excuse of prints not being built because floor staff did not deliver to the booth is BS! Why can a IATSE guy not go downstairs, see if prints were delivered, and ask for help in getting them up to the booth?

 

I'm pretty sure the idea of operators not bringing prints up to the booth has faded. The same idea applied to auto-workers: "Some guy gets $20 an hour to mearly insert the cig lighter on the assembly line all day!" I'm sure it has happended, but I don't think this is the way unions currently want to operate. They know owners could choose not to renew contracts, and are interested in getting the dead wood out. Remember though, by law they can't just throw people out, and older guys willing to learn should be helped understanding new technology. So it will take some time.

On the other side of the coin; the company I work for recently opened a theater in Chicago, with union operators. After looking at some paperwork, I think they may actually save us money. We have to send service people constantly to fix simple little things in non-union booths because no one knows even simple mainteince. In Chicago , these guys are good; even the regular operators know how to hook up and use an R2 unit.

If you have a smaller multiplex, you could probably do without a union guy. But if you want consistant high quality in a large megaplex, you would almost *have* to ask for union help.
 

Do we really want to leave decisions such as the wages we are paid, the security of our jobs, the provisions for health care and pensions for our advanced years,solely in the hands of corporate executives?

Do we really believe that supply and demand work in our favor, and that employers will voluntarily pay high wages for skilled full-time employees, when they have the alternative of hiring part-time teenagers without benefits?

Are we willing to disenfranchise ourselves from sharing in the determination of our working conditions, qualifications, vacations, contractual benefits and opportunities for advancement?

Are we so taken in by the myth of "rugged individualism" that we see no need to band together as craft unionists to influence legislation on behalf of working men and women, using our rights and obligations as workers and citizens to provide for our families' futures?
 

I looked at mine, and I looked at Phil's...

Long story made short, I was licensed in 1981 and worked "permit" for 2 years in a carbon/changeover house before joining local 173 in 1983. Happiest day of my young life. Although I never did the full apprenticeship that many of my colleagues did, I always learned as much as I could -- thanks for everything Gord, Rick and Rick Jr....

When I saw the writing on the wall in 1996 and '97 I decided to try my hand at some other careers. Projection was clearly on the way out, and I'm pretty darned good with computers and electronics, so I ventured out and became a network administrator, finally taking a withdrawal card in December '99. I believed that unions in exhibition were a waste, un-necessary and had outlived their usefullness.

When I moved to New York City in 2000 I was secure in my "knowledge" that unions were the ruin of places like NYC, where an illiterate subway cleaner can make $30 an hour. I was skilled. I earned the knowledge necessary to make me enough money until I chose to retire early.

But a few funny--and not so funny--things happened on the way to that retirement party. I started to read Film-Tech and saw that the art of projection wasn't nearly as dead as I'd been led to believe. That union--and non-union--projectionists still had some love for their craft and it wasn't ALL 16-year-old popcorn shovelers and 20something grunge-loving-ADD-riddled punks from the "whatever" generation running shows. There were still some talented pros out there doing that job I'd given up for dead.

Things changed rather dramatically for workers in New York City since I moved here. First the dotcom bust, and then a certain sunny Tuesday morning last September. All of a sudden $60k network admin jobs didn't exist any more. 800+ resumes to tech firms yielded a handful of interviews and few part-time contracts. All the while, my union-employed wife smiled her little "I Told You So" smile.

And every time I went to the movies in those days of working outside the industry, I kept wanting to sneak upstairs and beg to thread up and run just one last show; to make up a print; to time a platter, replace a bulb, help with an A-chain or B-chain alignment. But no, it was my job to pay the money and watch the scratched/jittery/dirty show. At least until I built my THX 6.1 home theatre.

So now faced with an uncertain future in the neo-conservative world of the "rugged individualist,"--indeed the world of the Worldcoms and Enrons, my love of the job is pointing me back to the booth once more.

I hope to carry a card for Local 306 here in the City at some point, and to help re-live those grand days at the Kingsway and the Showcase; the relief list and the smell of popcorn wafting through the booth.

I don't know if Gerald's hope of us influencing legislation will ever come about again, at least outside of New York City...the rest of the country is so rabidly anti-union as to make that premise untennable politically. Perhaps the best we can hope for is to provide a service with *trained professionals* that employers will WANT to call upon and pay a fair wage for. Maybe, too, we'll seek out better training and opportunities for ourselves and try to co-operate with employers in making us more knowledgeable of current and new technologies.

If the unions fail to weed out the dead wood from their ranks; if they fail to learn, master and test themselves on the newest technologies; if they fail to show up on time; if they fail to do what's asked of them by the employers, then they will surely fail their employers and this craft will doom itself into oblivion. Is there a role for projectionists' unions today? Yes. Are the members serving that role? That's the question everyone must ask themselves.

------------------
Cheers,
PJ Dougherty

W2IRT
 

Bumping this thread up to the top in response to German's question about payment, and Brad's comments, in Film-Yak...

Gerard

Had mixed experieces with projectionist unions. In my native NZ, in the mid 1980s, we had a government in force who insisted that every worker was a member of a union. You could opt out on moral grounds but you still had to pay union fees to a charity (few did). To run a cinema you had to be a paid up member of the projectionist union, who insisted that (even in 1988 with full automation and platters) there was one operator per screen. In 1984 Mid City, a 4 plex fully automated and with one booth, opened with four operators on at a time - needless to say they got bored, pissed each other off and rather than look at realistic manning levels the union suggested that the cinema owner install a pool table (they did !).

The projectionist union also controlled the flim exchanges, so any house without paid up operators would mysteriously find their films arriving late or with a missing reel. On the positive side, the projectionist union was a driving force behind the two year mandatory training scheme, which required each operator to take formal courses in electrical practice, sound and film and projector maintainence. I look back on my training notes and have yet to see a more comprehensive training program - it was slow though - in theory you could work in the booth for a full year without ever lacing up a machine. I was fortunate - after 3 months I was allowed to clean the carbon dust from the Peerless'. (NZ was behind the times technically - carbon arcs and 2000' spools were the norm in even the 1980s - I guess the chains thought that there would be no advantage of platters when the "one man per screen" rule was in place). We installed the first platter in Auckland City in 1982, only to be met from a barrage of suspicion and criticism.

NZ is like anywhere else now - 12 screens and one kid runnign them.. Ho hum

 

As one who has had three surgical operations to correct hernias,
I am grateful that IATSE Local 306 rules relieved projectionists of the work of delivering film cans to and from the booths.

This task was usually performed by the theatre "porter", a robust
individual with stronger abdominal muscles who typically belonged to another union, complete with benefits, and often worked many years for the same theatre or chain. I remember with chagrin the day his employment ended, when the chain contracted a group of non-union Chinese of doubtful immigration status, whose brief tenure saw a replacement by a group from Mexico. The condition of the theatre did not benefit by any possible savings that may have accrued to the chain.

Unions struggle for the rights and benefits of their workers, who are addressed as "Brother Jones" or "Sister Brown" at meetings.
Membership typically requires citizenship and an age of maturity (21). The International Alliance of Theatrical and Stage Employees was formed as a craft union, but as the Americal Federation of Labor merged with the Congress of Industrial Organizations, the combined brotherhood has expanded to include skilled, semi-skilled, and "unskilled" unions of workers.

Theaters should be designed for the movement of prints as well as people, and managements should use personnel effectively to traffic films as efficiently as audiences. Dumbwaiters, block and tackle and hand-carry have been replaced by freight elevators in some modern theatres.
And floor staff, when composed of steady employees seeking to improve their wages, advancement opportunities and benefits, are free to form their own unions. The IATSE has expanded to include ground floor locals, and the drive continues.

Gerard

Reducing the number of operators from three to one at start-up sounds like a classic management speed-up technique used as punishment. In
a stronger legal environment you'd have a good case against management, but unless the Labor and Justice Departments provide support, managements in states where anti-union forces succeed, can deprive workers of their constitutional rights.

Gerard
 

The earliest organizers in America faced goon squads, depuity sheriffs
and even militias with tear gas and guns to achieve the right to organize, under the Bill of Rights freedom of assembly and right to petition for relief of grievances. They achieved the rights to organize and collectively bargain on contracts. But their supreme weapon was the right to withhold their labor via the strike. And the leaders risked beatings and jailings to achieve their goals.

Later generations took for granted the achievements of their elders and were unwilling to sacrifice to defend their gains. Some few leaders became corrupt and sold out their constituents, making deals with employers and politicians; others grew too soft to fight the growing strength of the opposition.

Any organization is only as good as its members and the leaders who grow from their ranks. I still belong to one honest, idealistic union still growing strong, completely democratic, in which I have participated for decades as chapter chairman, picket captain and Assembly delegate. I have also belonged to a union that was undemocratic, demogogic, and weak....among other unflattering aspects.
)
"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in the stars,
But in Ourselves, that we are underlings..."--W.S.

Gerard

Here in Seattle, the Union doesn't exactly have a whole lot of hold over the town due to the fact that there are so few jobs to begin with in theater chains that work with the Union. GC, Regal, Loews, and some of the indies in this town are all very anti-union in nature and love to employ manager-operators as you said.

The benefit of being in IATSE (YAHTZEE!) Here is that you'll always have somebody finding you jobs if you're high enough on the seniority list. Trouble is, it's nearly impossible to get on that list and even find one Union job to begin with, short of Festival and tech work. Landmark theatres here requires all manager operators to be Union guys. So it's just the same as what you described before, but with guaranteed benefits and retirement. Also, the projectionists merged with the stagehands for help in pickets and such.

The bottom line is that it would be nice if the union were recognized as much as it was when everybody was still on carbon arcs, but platters and automation have pretty much killed the whole operation. At the very least, I think it's nice that there are still options.

------------------
So if old projectionists don't die, what happens when new projectionists get old?
 

David

For example, years paying dues, special assessments, sick-fund contributions and pension fund and health plan contributions, etc, provide the union with an economic base that benefits
all members. The more paid in, the larger the benefits. That's why small locals have such a hard time providing benefits for their workers.

Besides economic seniority, there's the participation in elections, meetings, discussions, informational picketing, strike picketing (and sacrificing wages during the strike), often in freezing or sweltering weather. Many members over the years spent time representing their local at national meetings, participating in blood donation and other charitable drives, moving the union offices to new locations and doing carpentry and wiring gratis, marching in Labor Day celebrations and doing volunteer office work to supplement paid office staff.

So seniority applies not only to years of technical experience, but of contributions to the union and its strungth, which translates to benefits to its members.

------------------
Lewis Bohannon
"The Man Up-Stairs"
 

<<A Union sounds very attractive, but the company won't have it.>>

Of course not! Union is something fought for and won by sacrifice of workers, not a gift of management.

Only when management is convinced that a union shop is to its advantage, will it agree to work with a union. Managements have in the past have been so convinced, but newer generations of corporate execs have broken the old agreements, and through lock-outs have forced give-backs and refused to renew contracts.

Perhaps it's time for a renewal of the struggle, beginning with electing national and state administrations that favor workers over the profits of corporations, eliminating the abuses of "child labor" in the theatres, and enforcing the national labor lawa so flagrantly ignored at present?

 

However, the bulk of movie theattres are now regional, national and international. As such, the unions should have shifted away from the local concept and started to bargin at the national level. Back when there was an installed base of union shops, the IA should have gone to barganing in a national manner. I remember all too well some chains training a group of managers to bust the locals if there was a strike. If the entire chain was go into strike conditions at once, it would have been much tougher to break the projection union. However, now there isn't much of an union base to perform such a task. It is too late.

Another thing the IA should have done is gone to the table with organizing the entire floor staff of the theatre all the way up to the person that doesn't have the hire/fire authority (regardless of if they have the dubious "manager" title). Imagine if every employee in the theatre was under a union contract. A deal would have been struck for just the operators to avoid such a thing...Whats one or two employees compared to the entire staff?

Again, the opportunity has passed. The local I belong to (Local #224) gave Cineplex-Odeon a run for it's money back in the 80s...after they lost at the NLRB to lockout the union from existing theatres, we got a contract on ALL of their theatres in the area, including those that had not been previously union. However now, through attrition, we are not in much better shape than any other local. The last contract offered was pretty much a "sign this boy if you still want a job." It doesn't really provide for a living wage in most of the jobs.

Personally, I feel unions are needed now as much as they ever were. However, I don't see the leadership in the unions, governement nor management to make it work and all three are required.

As to a company not wanting a union...it isn't THEIR choice, it is solely the worker's. Anyone that threatens or fires an employee due to their membership/affiation (or lack there of) in a union is illegal. That being said, it doesn't mean it doesnt or wont happen. If it happens you can always report it to the National Labor Relations Board in your area. They might even investigate the claim!

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
 

Many have passed away....Some went to other fields....Many of the well known people in the service part of the business were union projectionist at one time. I won't list them by name, but, it goes on and on. The exceptions are rare.

I had 20 years in the IATSE.
My father and 2 of his brothers also. Mother was a union usher/ticket seller. All passed away now. Except me of course....And sometimes I'm not so sure about that.

It's great when you've got the seniority. Pretty tough going when you don't.
 

------------------
Bob Throop
 

First of all, if you'll look to your left, you'll notice this is my first post here. I have spent a long time (over a year and a half) "lurking in the shadows" (I'm a projectionist, that is what we do best, right? ) reading all of your well thought ideas and in some cases, ramblings. I chose this as my first post because being a Union Member and talking about labor struggles has recently become a nice bonus to my rewarding career as a projectionist. Yes, I said career. Although it won't pay the bills long, I hope to be around as long as I can, providing the best film presentation possible.

Secondly, I would like to give cheers to the administrators and moderators of this board. I volunteer for a website dedicated to a favorite actress and we use the Ultimate Bulletin Board as well. Organization on any message board can be very difficult to keep and making sure everyone follows the rules is certainly a thankless job. So, here's to the community you have here, cheers!

Now, on to MY diatribe about unions, starting with the short story of how I joined one:

I started for Loews Cineplex Entertainment back in December of 1998 as a "floorstaff". Basically running concessions, box office, ticket-taker, and usher. This is how most of the Loews staff works, going from one position to the other on a daily basis. After 2 weeks employment, I was promoted to Service Supervisor. Actually my first sub-management role, and I have to be honest, I did love it. I liked the staff I worked with, for the most part we were always a team and everyone stayed late to help eachother (including when my inventory was off).

About 3 months later my friend Jon suggested I come up into the projection booth on my spare time and maybe learn a bit. The theater was still in it's "de-bugging phase" so I had a chance to see a lot of problems with a lot of solutions (something I'm sure any projectionist would testify as being the best way to learn). After 2 months learning on my time, I was asked to take 2 shifts in the booth. Never had I been happier! I, like Ken, was getting what I thought was the best of both worlds. Well, I was promoted to Corporate Trainer specializing in Projection and Concessions. I opened the Methuen, MA theater practically alone. Fortunately we had technicians from New England Theater Services setting up most of the equipment as far as sound goes and cutting apperature plates. The one complaint I had was that my home theater in Danvers, MA was opened with 5 people who had prior projection experience and 3 really good trainees. I opened Methuen ALONE and given 3 staff to train who had never even seen a projector before (2 of which quit during training).

Well, when I returned to my home theater everyone seemed fairly pleased with me, despite some small problems during the opening (The Cell didn't show up until the afternoon of opening day, Big Sky platters were giving me NO love and were so slow on makeup, plus trying to run 20 screens alone in 2 booths and training 2 people at a time..yeesh...and I enjoyed this! )

Shortly after I got back I had gotten pretty sick, and called out. Well, the next day I worked the head manager, a real gem of a guy (sarcasm, of course), started to "tear me a new one" because I: "...should be more responsible being a supervisor, set an example, and I tarnished his good name by doing a lousy job in Methuen." Now, I'm sure just about everyone here can imagine the amount of pride I had taken in getting a projection booth up and running with minimal problems after having learned projection not even 6 months prior. To have my work quality/ethics torn down this hard was very aggrivating.

Well, things did get worse, and not just with me. This manager generally tore into everyone the wrong way, even the other managers. Eventually our "head projectionist" got sick of it and applied for a job at the discount/art house across the street for better money and benefits. Just to keep him on, the Regional Director offered him a raise from $10/hour to $13/hour. Well, he didn't think this was quite right. He knew he did the same work as the rest of us, and that we all deserved better pay and treatment. So we were all going to quit, it just got that bad. Instead, we tried to think of something that would annoy the company who put this knit-wit in charge and possibly improve our job. So we called the local union, IATSE 182 of Boston. They were, of course, glad to help out. Before my 20 screen had opened up in Danvers, they represented the projectionists at the 2 Danvers theaters which ran 8 screens and of course when Loews shut them down they didn't want the union in the new building. Obviously, keeping the theater non-union for 2 years only to have your projectionists go begging the union for representation didn't bode well with management.

The company ordered all of us promoted on the spot to supervisor (I was one, but the others mostly were not) which, as most of you probably know, is illegal. They fired one projectionist for "playing with teddy bears". Okay, just so you don't go off on that bit, these were bears given to the theater by Coca-Cola for distribution on opening day. Since they were not company property, they could not be sold. So 2,000 bears sat in the booth for 2 years despite our suggestions of donation to local charities such as Toys for Tots or Salvation Army. Occasionally the projectionists would pop some out to kids before the show. Then one day, Ed, our resident funny guy, comes in before his shift and puts some bears in a funny situation. Sacrificial bear in the middle of the floor in a little-used room with a circle of bears around it. On the whiteboard in that room the message "Curses upon those who dare to disturb the holy circle of bears!"

Now, was this professional? Of course not. Necessary? Nope. Funny? Absolutely! Even the managers thought it was hilarious. Then, the VP of East Coast Operations Paul Wehrle comes by after our first bout at the negotiating table and sees the bears and fires Ed. Of course, we got Ed his job back with back pay. Since that day, things have been nothing but hostile. Now that my story is up to date as far as joining a union, I think I'll point out why they are a good thing for workers, companies, and especially the customers.

To make sure all this is taken in context, you should know that on June 11th, 2002 Loews locked out the projectionists of 182 in all theaters except for their Boston Commons theater, where the contract is still in effect therefor they cannot lock us out.

One big issue discussed in this thread is the "demise" of IATSE projection unions. My thoughts are:

1) Cutdown on diversification of the local. Many locals, including my own, have abandoned covering work such as convention shows, stagehand, filming, and other such jobs which are now covered by different IATSE locals. This was obviously not a great idea because as Gerard has said, a union's power is in it's numbers. It is difficult to get attention when you have 40 members, only 20 employed by one company. With most other trades if workers go on strike or if the employer thinks about locking out they have to deal with almost no work getting done, thus no money coming in. In projection they only really need to replace one person in each theater, accomplished by adding a day onto each managers' schedule. That doesn't cost them obviously since managers are salaried and do not get paid hourly.

2)IATSE national having sworn off the projectionist trade. When we were fighting for our rights to organize in Danvers the National helped pay our organizing fees, yet will not help with the negotiations or the lockout. I recently read about a local in Canada working for Famous Players who were locked out, decided that the National was useless, tried to decertify the IATSE representation and join a more helpful National only to have the IATSE National "swoop down" and try and take the local's resources and assets for their own. The Boston local has faced the same problem with our union hall, the National has tried to take it away from us despite the fact it was bought by certain members and lent out to be used as the hall, not the property of the local.

3)Corporate GREED! My favorite. The general attitude with Loews (I have only worked a few days here and there for Showcase and GCC so I cannot attest to EVERYONE's attitude) is who cares about presentation when you are selling popcorn? I refer to Sean's post about "overhead" and how we should feel so bad for a multi-million dollar international corporation just because it filed bankruptcy to escape it's lease obligations in it's underperforming theaters. When you see a popcorn bag with something on it other than the Loews logo, that was paid for by someone else, basically given to the theater. Calvin Klein was the longest running campaign to do this. Now a bag of seed costs $50 and makes roughly 100 "Value" size popcorns at $4.50. Cost=$50, profit=$400. Now multiply that $400 by the 50 bags of seed we got on average in a week. $20,000 profit per week, and all we have calculated is the popcorn. Hell, during the re-organization Loews executives, the ones responsible for the over-building which led to these financial problems, petitioned for and won $4.4 million in bonuses to be paid to their executives. Now, don't think like $200 bonuses, we're talking 30-60% of their annual salaries ranging from $200,000-1.2 million! It's amazing the financial information you can get when a company goes into bankruptcy court.

4) Lack of government enforcement of labor law. It has taken the National Labor Relations Board over 2 years to make any headway in our 70 unfair labor practices. We have had people who weren't even licensed (I wasn't even told about a license until I joined the union!) operating the equipment. We have had serious OSHA violations which ended up in fines amounting to $16,000 but were reduced to $8,000. The local police will not let us leaflet on our job site, when Section 7 of the National Labor Relations Act clearly states we can so long as the areas are normally accessable to the public (in other words, you couldn't leaflet inside a warehouse or on the grounds at the telephone company, etc.)

The truth about the theater industry is that it will pinch the penny until every aspect of quality is gone to a point where they even replace film with digital. Perhaps replace concession stands with vending machines or self-service lines like those in Stop&Shop and build robots to clean the theaters. Actually, cleaning the theaters can just be paid out to the low-cost non-english speaking exploited immigrants which currently do the overnight cleaning.

The best example of a chain not caring about quality is this lockout in Boston. We have been present at theaters when there were problems and we were holding rallies. I have people on the floorstaff whom we were organizing into their own union who have reported constantly on daily problems. When I was running the booth, I was lucky if I got called for a volume change, nevermind a film break, trailer on backwards, wrong format presentation, lights not up/down, and on and on. There was actually a brainwrap of Minority Report on OPENING WEEKEND so severe at their Fresh Pond theater in Cambridge that they had to cancel the rest of the night, saw the film off the brain, and order a whole new print!

One time, we had a manager come up and train before the union was even a glimmer in our eye, she damaged 12 prints totalling in $20,000 (a year's salary for me!) in damage which Loews got stuck with. But this is not the first time, I'm sure during the 10-month lockout in Chicago there were problems.

Now, as far as cost-effectiveness goes we were asking for $15/hour at my 20 screen, not even the price of 2 admissions. Now yes, I know, they make hardly anything on tickets, so say the price of 2 "Super Combos". There is a 12 screen which gets 18/hour in Somerville. How does this not seem worth it? More rationale: Before the we sought out the union, we would run the booth with around 150 hours of projectionist paid hours. Shortly after that number went down to 120, then to 110 where we were shortly before lockout. I myself ran the booth on Wednesdays and Thursdays which are our "print work" days for makeup/breakdown, trailer changes, etc. I had days where I built 10 prints, changed 20 trailers, programmed the times for the projectors to start (we have the Strong Automation system), did 10-15 print moves across a booth 1/8th of a mile long, broke down 5-10 prints AND ran 20 projectors. In any other booth they would have 2 or 3 people doing what I was doing, at 15-20/hour (in other locals much higher) but only paying me $10/hour, so why is it too costly to employ me now? Now that they are out of bankruptcy. Sigh. The best part is this is even wearing out the managers who would gladly have replaced us before the lockout. Since the lockout time 2 head managers and 2 "regular" managers have given their notice. Something I'm sure Sean M. can elaborate on now that he is quitting.

So, the stories just keep coming in. Lights didn't go down right, changeover shut in the middle of the movie, film breaks, scratched prints, backwards reels, brainwraps, etc. The only really sad part about this is the public won't speak up most of the time. They can't stop going because the nearest first run theater is in Revere (about 20 minutes away on highway) so they just deal with it and wait for their free pass to come back and watch another shitty show. Alas, what is a projectionist to do?

Well, that is my first post I guess. Can't seem to find any improvements, sorry if I ranted a bit, but this has been bottled up for a while now. It's good to see there are still honest hard working pro-union guys out there that care about quality. Looking forward to future involvement in the board, Read you later!

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"The greatest thing you will ever learn, is just love and be loved in return."

Barry C. Martin
IATSE Local 182
 

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
 

I agree that the older traditional union projectionists are becoming fewer and further between, however I guess that this is associated with the changed role in the booth. 20 years ago a "chief" projectionist would have solid technical and presentation skills - now the skills to run a 30 plex are more time and management related. I guess it's the same as the auto industry 50 years ago - the guy who manages a production line is as skilled as the guy who used to hand build cars, just different skills. Here, where we have to change film adverts each week (say 14 screens, 18 films = 18 sets of adverts, 18 sets of trailers and perhaps 5 film changes = a lot of work and a need to be very organised) and I would have as much if not more respect for the guy who can manage this as the guy who could keep the carbons in trim and fix the boilers. Both are equally skilled, but in different disiplines. It's just a shame that more of the guys with traditional skills don't (can't ?) make the transition.
 

You know you have a very common story, and one that many people would make comments regarding your struggle as you just being a "greedy troublemaker who just wants to stir up problems and get paid more". Corporate and *some* management sees unions as nothing more. They do not see why they should pay someone a living wage to do a good job and they completely fail to understand why such a peon in this world should be given any amount of respect at all. What matters to them is that THEY get more bonuses and salary increases, because you are just a worthless troublemaker.

Yet if these corporate geniuses were so smart, they would look at situations like yours and say "what in the hell is the manager doing to get them so angry that they are unionizing on us?" It really boils down to two things.

#1 Pay. You cannot live in this world without a decent wage.

#2 Treatment. No one wants to work for an A-hole.

In EVERY situation I've heard of where a theater decided to unionize, it was a direct reaction to bad management. Had you been paid well in the first place and been treated with appropriate respect, unionizing would have never even been a consideration, would it?

I strongly agree with your opinions as stated above. During the lockout I am working a non-union retail job I had previously worked part time for additional income when things were tight. I was getting paid $10.20 as a supervisor for Loews, which is the wage I have been making for the past two years because we are negotiating our first contract. After the lockout I was rehired at Best Buy at $10/hour with full medical, dental, vision, life insurance, great discount, paid vacation, and even 401k which I can option for Best Buy stock (always on the rise). What am I doing at Best Buy? Running a cash register. They pay me almost as much as Loews did to run projectors just to push keys and provide outstanding customer service. Now, I am a very pro-union guy but am I about to organize Best Buy? No. The management (upper and lower) are hands-on with all the staff and it is a very friendly atmosphere. For the job, the price is right and the benefits are the best I have seen. What would a union gain us? A small increase in wages? I believe in unions when they are needed, and they are in most instances. But just once in a while you come upon a company that knows how to treat it's employees. By the way, I am only working because I have a newly formed family to support. In fact, if it interests anyone in the slightest to see the cutest child alive (in my humble opinion) go to: Samantha Rose Martin Otherwise I would have taken unemployment for 6 months and been outside my theater everyday getting kicked off the property.

One thing I forgot to mention in my History of My World Part I" was the cost of FIGHTING a union. You have the Vice President dedicated to fighting us, flying all over the country staying in hotels (I'm sure they are Motel 8's), with free rental cars and meals (McDonald's all the way!). Next you have the lawyer who gets paid $450/hour and has to be flown around the country with the VP and provided for as well. Then you have the money they spend fighting our Unfair Labor Practices, OSHA violations (including a whistle-blower charge), I even filed a criminal complaint in Salem District Court because the head manager of our theater stole or received stolen, my union literature from my desk in the booth. I overheard her describing the contents of this literature to the Regional Director on the phone, when confronted by me and the police she denied knowledge, until the cop threatened court, then she talked. There were emergency staff meetings held to misinform the floorstaff about unions and lie to them about what we were trying to organize them for. For this they flew 5 executives from NYC and a lawyer.

You take the lawyers fees and VP salary and you could support every local that negotiates with Loews for the next 10 years just on what they probably spent last year. But they still fight for the "long-term benefit". I am just awestruck by the lack of desire for a quality show. It is a movie theater, not a restaurant. People go there to see movies, not buy popcorn. On top of all this advertising is EVERYWHERE. You have the Theater Radio Network playing in the lobby and on the phones. You have 5-7 minutes of trailers that have nothing to do with movies running before your show. You have plasma screens displaying rotating ads in the lobby. Cingular wireless displays, Ford Focus cars, Reel Kidz Combo trays advertising movies, toys, and such and you have slides running before your show. Yet the poor theater industry cannot afford quality exhibition...puzzling. Goodness....I certainly am on a rant these days, must think happy thoughts!

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"The greatest thing you will ever learn, is just love and be loved in return."

Barry C. Martin
IATSE Local 182
 

You probably don't know me but I'm just letting you know that Sean M. did not quit, he transfered to another Loews Theatres location and from what I understand, most of the other managers that are leaving are going because of tougher management, not the union lock-out.

I have nothing to do with the activities between Loews and the union but please make sure you know all the info before you post to the public. Sean is my friend and a very dedicated manager, he knows what it is like to run a booth even if you do not agree. I prefer that people do not get the wrong idea about the person that he is.

Thanks and congrats on your new family.

Well, it's 2 AM. I just got home from a grueling day in the booth on opening night of Signs where it was rumored that the regional booth inspector would be showing up to check up on me. At the same time, I was required to perform all cash out operations on the box office registers and organize all passes, cupons, gift certificates, etc. This was the night from hell. Now like I said, it's 2 AM and I have to be at work in 7 hours for a staff meeting. This kind of thing never would have happened if the IATSE were still as powerful as it once was. I'm very thankful to have a job at all, much less a job in the field I want to be in, but I can guarantee that if everybody decided to unionise (Yeah, right!) that I would be one of the first in line.

However, it's not as if anybody is whipping me, beating me, and forcing me into not taking breaks. I just refuse taking them so I can get all my work done on time so I don't look like a friggin' moron. Plus I don't like leaving the booth unattended for too long. Something seems wrong about that. My point is, from a legal standpoint, I don't think that I could really call my treatment "Unfair" however, I sure would prefer to be running the booth OR the floor. Not both at the same time. It would also be nice if I were making more than what I do which is just barely above minumum wage. I'll stop whining now.

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So if old projectionists don't die, what happens when new projectionists get old?
 

I agree with you view on why the management is quitting, but the lockout is the source of that pressure. Did any of the managers get a raise for having more work shoveled on them? Is Paul Wehrle not on their back about the multiple problems they are having doing our "overly simple job which does not require skilled professionals" even when they hired several former projectionists and brought people up from Connecticut to train them? I am not against the managers, most of the them are good friends and great people. Same goes for the supervisors who are hourly and still did not get anything for the additional training/work. I rented an apartment from one of them who works at Fresh Pond. It's corporate, they are the source of all evil, I'm sure Sean would even agree with that.

Joseph,

I can see why it would take them that long to place you. Reasons are scattered throughout this thread. If there used to be hundreds of members in a local and all these chains started cutting back and pushing out the smaller houses with mulit-/mega-plexes then jobs started to disappear. A union's first priority is to get jobs for the members who have given the dues the longest, had the most experience, and are out of work. So with no new jobs being opened up, it is difficult to get new members in. Fortunately for me and my co-workers, we organized our theater so we have the highest seniority at our theater. If we want to switch to a different theater we would have to wait in line but for us it is a short line, thank goodness.

I did the same thing you did and thought nothing of it. Doing both, then I realized I preferred having a job where everything was left to me. No managers asking how it was going or suggesting what needed to be done. I spent all 9-17 hour shifts FINDING things to do, and when they were done, I knew it. Projection can be a very thankless job. The only time anyone really pays attention to something they can't see (the booth) is when something goes wrong. I didn't mind that. I actually had a huge ego boost knowing that thousands of people were able to enjoy their show just because I was running the shift. I never took breaks either (as a projectionist) just because I could always find a few minutes here and there to spend relaxing, so why take a break if I can bring a sandwich and a book in the booth? I know some other projectionists will do nothing but thread the machines and leave them to the autostarts, basically giving themselves HOURS of downtime, but I take more pride in my work so "down time" was a little more scarce for me. All you have to do is budget your time right and you can get a chance to get off your feet now and then, plus get everything done.

Thanks for the kind replies guys and gal, hopefully will have some more time to post this coming week. Read you later!

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"The greatest thing you will ever learn, is just love and be loved in return."

Barry C. Martin
IATSE Local 182
 

I have a question for you, are or/were you friends with Mike that worked at the Salem theater? I'm trying to place you and think that I've actually met you before.

-Rachel
 

As for the issue of having to take on extra responsibilities, I could understand them adding a task or two here and there. If these were digital booths requiring almost no daily work, I could understand that. But dividing 5 full time jobs among 7 managers is just wrong. Most of them didn't even want to do it, but what are they going to do, quit? Even I wouldn't quit and I am a pro-union guy! My point on Corporate Greed is I think well founded. Otherwise, why was it okay to employ these people before we joined the union and NOW the company wants managers in the booth and really to elminate us all together. Why were they paying people twice what we were getting for half the screens run? Why were they giving benefits to those projectionists and STILL not offering them to me? When I have a family to support? Why do they spend all this money on lawyers, negotiations, lockouts, bringing people around the country to train the managers who don't want to do the work and end up quitting?

Best yet, what about the floorstaff? Dottie has been with Loews for 15 years, no benefits and she was only making 2 dollars an hour more than I, having been with the company 2 years. They don't pay overtime on Sundays or even for working Christmas or Thanksgiving! The job I have now pays me the same as Loews, only I get time and a half on Sundays, all major holidays, plus 8 hours of regular pay for any holiday, including my BIRTHDAY. I get paid sick days, personal days, vacation. Medical, Dental, Vision, Life Insurance, Death and Dismemberment Insurance.

Now I know, it sounds like I should just stick where I am if I have it so good. The point is, I love projection. Most of the posts I see throughout this board is about loving film, caring about the presentation, and doing quality work. If we had just been left alone to do that in the first place, this probably would have never happened. Instead we were harassed and short changed. The thing I hate most about this whole thing is that I cannot tell people I'm a projectionist in Danvers without worrying about them saying "So it was your fault my movie was messed up last week!" That's reputation, we had a good repore in Danvers. Can you imagine how long it will take to repair that?

Sorry for the rant, but defending corporate is not something positive these days. Look at Enron, WorldCom, etc. Just read my posts and the posts of others in this thread that can testify to the same trend for the last decade or even farther. I'm not going to run around saying unions are the best thing and everyone should have one (although technically we all do, being the UNITED States of America) because I know better. My mother works for MIT and her union is absolutely terrible. The supervisors playing favorites, giving the easiest work to their friends and such.

But you have to ask yourself, if unions are so bad why are there so MANY of them? Why, when they are always asking for better wages do they give the pennies they do have in dues? I think it absolultely deplorable that firefighters and police have to fight to support their families, these are people that safeguard our very lives, why aren't they the ones in palacial mansions and with luxury cars? Any union can be dissolved as easily as it was started, they aren't permanent. All you have to do is have the membership vote to decertify them. If it was a bad thing and people weren't happy they could just forget the union and go back to being "employees-at-will", where you can be fired anytime for any reason.

Point being, the more money a company makes, the more money the EXECUTIVES get. If they can get away with paying us 10/hour instead of a union rate of 20/hour then they will spend everything they have on it. If they saved that money and energy they could certainly make ALL their staff a lot happier and pay them better as well. Hell, Wehrle's wage alone would pay an increase of $5/hour and the cost of benefits for all the staff in Danvers. Now see where you can get with the lawyer fees, travel expenses, lawsuits, etc. Employees do not get bonuses (unless we're talking 10 cents per Super Combo, that is if you are lucky enough to get put in the concession stand). The theater industry doesn't even give the respect to the employees that retail stores do and those stores are generally making less money.

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"The greatest thing you will ever learn, is just love and be loved in return."

Barry C. Martin
IATSE Local 182
 

I have nothing but goodwill towards my union and hold no ill-will towards them in any way whatsoever. If I had suddenly found myself in a position where a job was offered to me and those who have worked longer and harder than I have were skipped over, I would have been worried I'd get screwed the same way at some point. I never felt I was being mistreated. Quite the opposite.

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So if old projectionists don't die, what happens when new projectionists get old?
 

Ok, first off I am just going to make this quite clear. I do not believe in posting about misfortunes of other theaters. Salem for example, I ran it about a year after the manager that you are speaking of. That particular theater has done many MANY things to improve the look and attitude of its employees, film presentation, and general reputation. I know the guy who is now running it and as far as I can see, he is doing a great job. In the last two years that theater has really done a turn around and its reputation is definitely showing. Hollywood Hits is where I work, awesome theater, but obviously not perfect. We care about our film presentation as I am sure you know and we are constantly improving the theater as best we can. The staff we have is the best, our customer service proceeds us with every passing day that I get customer after customer asking for the manager to tell me (or one of the others) what a nice "visit" they had. No one is perfect but we try our best.

I still do not agree with you about managers taking on extra tasks. What about all those managers out there at the smaller theaters that run booth/floor for a (lets say) six screen, with less pay then some of the larger theaters. Some managers in the building 6 days a week for 12 hours at a time. That is not too uncommon and something that every manager has to take with a grain of salt. I am not saying that it always happens and sometimes the reason for it can be disturbing, but it does. Money's great but everyone here on these forums knows that the business that they work for is not one to get rich in unless you work real hard for a long time or just get really lucky. I'm glad you have such a great set up at Best Buy but I do not believe that is the norm at most retail stores. Go to most of the other stores in the mall (including the big one right next to you) some offer health, maybe 401K, usually not the rest. No other theater that I know of pays time and a half on Sundays or holidays, I know some do - but not around here as far as I know, I am sorry if I am incorrect.

As far as the statements about unions, I never said they were bad. I believe that a union can work in the right circumstances. But, as you said in an earlier post and I quote "we tried to think of something that would annoy the company who put this knit-wit in charge and possibly improve our job. So we called the local union, IATSE 182 of Boston." In my belief, trying to piss off a company is not a proper reason to bring the union in. It was in my opinion doomed before it happened. I was not there with you or Sean, I do not know what happened and I am not going to judge. Just remember that every argument had two sides and the other side does not necessarily agree that things happened exactly the way you said they did.

I also do not believe that we should be discussing other peoples (Paul Wehrle is this case) wages without their consent. I have no idea what the man makes, nor do I care, it is his business. I do not think it is proper etiquette to discuss it here, even if you were just trying to make a point.

I don't see how posting about the ways other theaters have let the public down is a no-no. Everyone has a complaint about most theaters they have been to. I believe it was Brad (if memory serves) that posted regarding the Cheri and Copley theaters and how poor their facilities were. Sean himself posted about the quality in a Showcase cinema in one of the threads I posted to recently. I responded to your asking if I had been linked to the Salem the best way I could, by showing why I hadn't been there. I most certainly can identify with things out of a projectionist/managers' control. Ask Sean about cinemas 5-8 and 17 in Danvers and how Loews could have consolidated 5,6,7, and 8 into two theaters instead of four with much better presentation. As is, the projectors are too close to the screen and have the wrong lenses in them for the minimal distance they are from the screen causing HUGE vignetting issues. At Methuen, the architect designed the stadium seating in some theaters so that SITTING DOWN in the back room puts you in a position to obstruct the presentation. At Salem and Hollywood Hits I'm sure it wasn't the managers who put the exit signs there, and there may even be a code against moving them or replacing them with the "glow-in-the-dark" type I have seen in other theaters which do not shine nearly as brightly. But I can't just let that go either, if I am watching a movie there should be NO light on the screen other than that which is projected. Period. Now Salem and HH are discount houses, so you pay for what you get, I just prefer getting free admission to what used to be much better presented shows. I am glad to hear that improvements have been made and if you were in any small or big way involved mucho kudos, but I am one of those people who get two bad runs in a row and I just never go back. We'll see though, maybe I can get through my stubbornness on this one.

As for the managers, I would have to say at least 90% of those people have also been doing that for a long time. It wasn't sprung on them the last minute. Generally pay is equal to two things: performance and responsibility. As a superivsor, I got a raise for each stage of learning. (i.e. Kitchen certification, projection training (only because I demanded it, it is not standard) corporate training) Managers are paid different for each level of responsibility as well, going from Manager to Concession Manager means a raise, next level being House Manager and then a Managing Director.

As for typical retail practices relating to my descriptions of Best Buy, I have seen the same offers first hand (I work part time or full time in addition to projection because as you pointed out, we're not here to get rich) at other stores. Examples are The Sports Authority, Home Depot, Staples, Sears, and Toys 'R' Us. Those are just the examples either I have worked or have friends who are working. There were others I interviewed for before Best Buy which had similar offers, just not the use of discount on many useful things (like an air conditioner). The only thing I have seen at Best Buy and nowhere else is the rule that if a part-timer works more than 28 hours, they get paid time and a half. That blew my mind.

The reason why most theaters don't is because of a loophole they created in law through lobbying allowing them to get away without paying the time and a half. Otherwise, how is standing 8 hours in front of a steaming popcorn bin any different/easier than standing 8 hours at a register? People deserve these things, they just don't know it. That is why unions are so politically active, they want to change things for the better just as they did 100 or 200 years ago. Hell, my favorite motto of the AFL-CIO is "The ones who brought you the 'weekend'." Someone else, I think Gordon, pointed this out. That people would work 6-7 days in a row, 12-15 hours/day. Perhaps if the "regular" staff at the theaters got organized like the ones in the Loews theaters are trying then the competitors would realize they have to match the trend. In other words, if Loews employees win time and a half on Sundays, perhaps HH will do it just to keep their staff interested and to attract new hires as fast as Loews. The ripple effect can be very powerful when it comes to change.

I never said you said unions were bad, I don't recall you taking any stance whatsoever. I just keep trying to work in a bit of the original discussion in case Ken is still reading and wanting to learn about unions. There was a pretty interesting debate going on in this thread about whether they were good or bad things, I think they are good so I pointed out my view. True that forming a union out of spite may not be the best reason, but it wasn't our only one either. The primary reason was to get rid or at least put a leash on Michael Goldstein. Scott at HH can tell you what a gem this guy is, so can Sean. Hell, Sean does a pretty damned good impression of Michael, especially with the flailing arms and all. When he was transferred out of Danvers to Copley because of his illegal activities involving the union I had both management and staff saying how gled they were. Three managers I know (some of the best the company has seen) left just because of him. Nobody had any love for the guy, he even threw salt at a customer one time! We were tired of the verbal abuse this guy delt out so we found a solution. At the same time we found out that the union operators got twice what we were making for less screens and were getting health/pension. This all added up to a unanimous decision to organize. The fact that Loews and Wehrle got so annoyed with us organizing was only a bonus. Perhaps now they will treat their staff better and be more careful with their managers, allowing for a more positive work environment.

As for my comparison of Paul's salary, this is public information that was published during the bankruptcy proceedings. I most certainly didn't ask him how much he made last year or anything like that. I did not even state how much he does make, just using an example. If anyone here knows the comparison between Loews corporate structure and Redstone (National Amusements) then you can see why Loews could afford to cut so much from Corporate and executives. Redstone runs the entire company out of a building not much bigger than Hollywood Hits, Loews has Regional Directors all over the country, offices, and their Corporate HQ is in NYC on 5th Ave. Redstone is based out of Tennessee (if memory serves). I should also mention the Showcase guys make between $30-50,000/year, much more than the Loews projectionists yet Loews wants cuts to make us more comparable to their wages.

The last thing I want to add is something I should have pointed out long ago, which is another tactic corporate uses to win these labor struggles. Misinformation. They lie to their managers about what they can and cannot do so that when they break the law, corporate can deny responsibility brushing it off onto them. My wife worked for Loews as a floorstaff for a short period of time during the height of our organizing of the floorstaff. They held an emergency meeting the day after we started complete with suits from NYC and a lawyer to tell them a bunch of lies about unions and why we really wanted them to join. (Actually, we were suggesting they form their own local under IATSE, seeing as how 182 doesn't appear to have a guaranteed future in exhibition). I know these were lies not just because my fellow union brothers and sisters told me so but because I asked the attorney at the National Labor Relations Board offices in Boston. I did my homework, I don't usually trust a person on their word alone.

Anyways, the point I am always trying to make here is that if the company just put their time and money into supporting the staff in the first place, they wouldn't have to bother fighting them on labor issues. All my numbers may seem big for what they spend on fighting us, but now multiply that by adding Chicago, NYC, San Francisco, LA, and all the smaller locals. Is it really worth it?

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"The greatest thing you will ever learn, is just love and be loved in return."

Barry C. Martin
IATSE Local 182
 

I can definitely understand what you are trying to say, I can only give two explanations for why that reason was mentioned. As I said before, we were all on the verge of quitting, this is how bad the manager had gotten. At that time there were about 10 different people running the booth, now we have kept 5 on since then. We are mostly between the ages of 18-25 and hadn't been brought up to believe this is a trade or craft. Most of what we heard about union operators was the "laziness" and how they wouldn't even bring movies up to the booth (something I have seen discussed here) That is why I was speaking in the past tense. A bad reason basically opened a window onto what projection is supposed to be and more importantly for me what unions really do. Since then I have become involved in several other union struggles (SEIU 509's Janitor "living wage" struggle and UFCW's fight with Shaws/Star Market) and a delegate for my local to the North Shore Labor Council CLC (one of the most active councils I have seen and most helpful with our efforts).

I admit I came into this thinking that it was just a way to possibly get higher wages, benefits, and to "piss off the company". Since then I have done quite a bit of growing up and been at the table with the company and while we don't see eye to eye on "sharing" the booth with managers and can get fairly steamed over that and other issues, I have seen the relationship between the membership of the local and the company by observing their behaviors at the table.

I am willing to admit my flaws when I know them, that is why I tried to reconcile my statemnt in my last post to Rachel. The main reason they were pissed at us was because the 8 screens split between 2 houses were union operated until the 20 screen opened up and of course Loews did not transfer the jobs over. They were SUPPOSED to make sure all the projectionists were supervisors (so we couldn't organize) but they never kept up with it. Turnover is also of course a big problem in our industry (with the floorstaff/management) so they were promoting people at least once a month, with an almost complete purge of staff every 6 months thus making training a constant issue.

The only staff that remained the same at that theater since it opened is 2 managers, 3 supervisors (2 of which part time, the other being me), a couple scattered concessionists and box office cashiers and almost all of the projection staff. Before we organized in 2000 we had only lost 2 projectionists since opening in 1998. One moved and one became a technician for Boston Light and Sound for a short while, then DDTS. After we organized, we have lost a couple others to the better paying theater in Boston, where they get double pay and benefits. So, obviously there were better reasons to do it, we may have started off wrong but I would like to think we have straightened out fairly well and become greater assetts to our local. I guess we'll see once this all gets settled.

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"The greatest thing you will ever learn, is just love and be loved in return."

Barry C. Martin
IATSE Local 182
 

Please answer me one question. Did you come here to stir up union issues and "vent" to everyone reading about how terrible your work conditions are and how much you hate this manager and that manager, or did you come here to participate in all aspects of proper film handling and a quality presentation as a professional? You seem to have come out of nowhere and every post of yours has been hard core pro-union related and with a lot of anger toward non-union and management...and yet with thousands of different topics on these forums, you have concentrated your efforts on this one subject with only one exception that I am aware of. It looks to me like you have some other motive at work here. I know you were recently locked out of your job and due to this we are only privy here to hearing your side of the story. Perhaps it might be in the best interest to lighten up a bit and not post union issues until this lockout is resolved.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
 

I once worked through a lockout with the approval of both the company and the union under whose jurisdiction I worked although not a member. It was an unusual circumstance but represented the best interests of all concerned parties, including me.
 

I apologize if my discussions seemed "heated" or angry, I was only trying to add my opinion of unions based on my experience. I, too, have seen it from both sides. If you read back to my experiences as a corporate trainer, I was basically the guy the company was sending around to insure lack of union in the booth. I had only heard stories from management about the union, but ended up joining anyways. The appreciation you speak of, I had. Every corporate trainer I worked with in Methuen thought I did a fantastic job. They all worked maybe 10-12 hours a day, because I was the only person who knew anything about projection I had to work from 8am-2am. Now, I'm not complaining, in fact they had to force me to take a day off. This was one clue to me as to how much I love projection. I could spend all day in that booth, get 5 hours sleep, and be ready for another day. I was only getting paid $100/day so I was basically making $5.55/hour (minimum wage in MA was $5.75 I believe).

Anyways, like I said, the Corporate Trainers and the managers at that theater all thanked me, as well as the Regional Director (being from Boston you might actually know of him, Bruce Taylor? They let him go too which is a damn shame, he was a good guy and kept neutral in everything) and they said I did a good job. As I posted before, my managing director had other opinions and despite the managers at my theater wanting to promote me, he had the final say. Of course, once the union got going, he said that he would promote me right away if I wanted to. It's that lack of appreciation for very hard work that got me going. I listed the reasons everyone had, not just me. As I said we are still learning a bit about what IATSE is supposed to mean to workers and company alike. That is why I'm here as well (in this thread), to figure out what you all have to say from your experience with IATSE and exhibitors which can go back as far as the 60's and 70's or earlier. I don't like just taking my local's word on the matter, outside resources are always a good idea.

As for my posting, I have posted in the favorite booth, 112 closings, and I know one other thread. Last night I searched through page 15 looking for something to "bring back from the dead" but couldn't find anything to add. Most of those like the "SW:ep2 in digital" thread are a bit dated and have already been talked out (or at least my opinion is already in there). My general practice is to check all the new posts for the day, respond to what I can, then search through a few pages to see if there is something else. Unfortunately, not being at work in a booth or seeing any movies doesn't allow me to post regarding booth problems/film problems (such as the "Signs scratched" thread) and as I said in the beginning, the union is the biggest thing that was going on in my projection career at the moment.

I am glad for this discussion, otherwise I might never have considered going back to Hollywood Hits or Salem to see if Rachel is right about them pulling up their reputation. That is one of the many things I have taken away from reading this thread. Mainly the reason why I started posting now rather than last year was because I was doing 50-60 hours/week as a projectionist so I really didn't have the time to add another message board to my daily internet routine. Now, I am only working 40 hours a week (if I'm lucky) so I have a bit more time and would rather discuss important things with good people instead of playing games on my computer. If I am really not adding anything to this forum, feel free to ask me to leave. I won't be offended, but I cannot promise I would stop reading. I like it here.

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"The greatest thing you will ever learn, is just love and be loved in return."

Barry C. Martin
IATSE Local 182
 

If I am an employer, I have no problem finding a worker who I am satisfied meets my requirements just is done in any other work situation -- you interview candidates, you review their qualification and you, the employer, get to decide who it is you want to hire. If that person then choose to join a union, all well and good, I have no problem with that. But *I*, the employer get to choose the worker I want, I get to hire him, and if I am not satisfied with his performance, I get to fire him. If he joins a union that requires certain procedures for firing, fine, I have no problem making the firing procedure honest and fair, but the hiring and firing are solely my decision, governed by applicable equal opportunity employment laws.

I was hired by the Performing Arts Center. I put the booth together for them, lugging all the equipment including pedestals up 5 flights of stairs, and then started the cinema program here. All this in addition to running a sound/recording studio and mixing for all the major concert events in the theatres. I became the chief (and at the time the only) projectionist for all three booths and a few years later, the cinema director. When I discussed my becoming a member of Local 306 with the then Brooklyn branch manager, I was told that my becoming a union member would also make the booth a "union booth." The union would then be able to dictate who would be assigned to my booth, and in all likelihood, that I probably WOULDN'T be me, based on seniority. So, says I, "So you are saying that I should join this union so that I can loose my job AND pay you dues for the privilege?" Needless to say, our booth remains to this day, unencumbered by Local 306. In actuality, I do belong to a union, Local 2334, which covers all technical workers in the theatres. Over the years, they have negotiated a very decent living wage (when I hear some of the other stories in this thread, I feel like a millionaire compared to what IATSE unions have been getting for their members). We get superior benefits including prescription drugs, dental, eye, full health coverage, plus 5 weeks paid vacation, all major holidays and a 35 hr week....and the contract provides strict firing rules with a grievance committee to fight for you. Is there any reason in the world why I would join another union that openly says they will replace me with someone else as soon as I sign on the bottom line based on their seniority scheme?

I have nothing against unions -- only this IATSE local -- which wanted to bully its way into my booth and told me I'd better come down to talk to them "if I knew what was good for me." That's all I needed to hear.

They put up pickets lines three times in the 25 years since, each time only for two or three days. Once was in the dead of January with a 55 mile-an-hour wind blowing and 15 degrees temps. I went out and brought the guys hot coffee.

My Local 2334 is great and I am a proud member. If Local 306 had presented the same kind of respect for me that my local did and continues to do, I might be a 306 member today (although probably not, given the way it has let down its members over the years, giving up wages and benefits, all with the incredibly lame and defeatist excuse, "well, this is better than no job at all").

Frank

Mike
 

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
 

What International Union is Local 2334 part of?

Larry
 

I started on the extra board. To cover a friends vacation.
It worked out fine. For the next few years, I worked every
theatre the Business agent sent me on. I made many connections
for work without the business agent's help. Other projectionists
would and still call me to cover work. It's funny the operators with the most time in got the best jobs, for a time. Till the company's
found they had people who could not keep up with the times. (No this
is not anti-union post) Unions are good as long as they are run well , by people who know what is good for the membership. Because
Los Angeles in the 90's, was not run well. We lost alot of work,
because of Poor Management in the local. You got work if you were
part of the business agent's klick. Why would a operator get the
same rate to run a grind house, as a operator would get to run a
first run house like the Cinerama Dome??? Ask the business agent.

Sorry to you other operators, about being so mad about poor
union management. But it happens.

Yes, Things did get better. I moved from theatre operations to
Motion Picture Post-Production Projection. After running theatres,
I spent 11 years in Studio Post-Production Projection. Now I run one screen with all 35mm and video formats.

To the younger operators learn your film & video formats.
 

One major issue I have seen with this is that Loews denied hiring some of the local's best including one guy at my theater in Danvers. We couldn't figure out why they wouldn't hire him in Boston if he was good enough for Danvers AND had been offered a $3/hour raise before the union organization. A grievance was filed and the company ended up hiring him citing the excuse they "didn't know we had sent all qualified candidates".

So the union doesn't so much control hiring, but the firing is supported by grievance. There have been issues with operators being banned from companies because they were doing something unethical (taking snipes of film, leaving the booth while working, etc.) but those are fairly rare (once a decade or more) and were taken care of by both the management and the local.

I think I would have to agree with how my local handles it, that they refer any qualified applicants and the best man/woman gets hired. It doesn't really matter if they hire outside the union since that person would probably join anyways. (Why pay dues if you're not going to get a vote in the union?) As for coverage, I have the least amount of seniority in the LOCAL (the most at my theater, Danvers) but was being sent all the time around the local to cover theaters with higher wages. The local is only about 45 members so everyone has their plate full pretty much and most of the guys were very understanding about my recent need for increased funds.

Scheduling is pretty much handled by each individual booth, the operators just writing on a calendar each month who is going to open/close on each day. I've never had management complain because this way the booth is almost invisible. As long as there are no problems there was no reason to come upstairs, they didn't have get availability from projectionists, and didn't have to worry about coverage. If an emergency came up the president or BA would call around to see who could cover. Is all this pretty standard or is the other example pointed out above regarding 306 the norm?

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"The greatest thing you will ever learn, is just love and be loved in return."

Barry C. Martin
IATSE Local 182
 

Like all unions, my local is not perfect; it has fallen down on the job on occasion, but overall, it has done very well by us.

Frank