Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 'Legally' out-of-frame

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Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 10-05-2001, 11:23 AM:

At first, I thought that one of our trailers before the feature 'Legally Blonde' was cut out-of-frame, but it turned out that there was an out-of-frame tape splice between the opening Fox logo and the following MGM logo.

This movie is distributed in Australia by Fox, so I take it they added their own logo at the depot after the prints had left the lab (actually, I think the prints are imported from the US). Anyhow, whoever added the Fox logo cut the tail of the Fox logo one sprocket out and the head of the incoming MGM logo one sprocket out, giving a cumulative 2 sprocket out-of-frame join. How could they possibly make a mistake at *both* ends? After correcting the problem, I felt that it was also the person's fault who made up the print for not having picked this up at the bench during inspection.

Nonetheless, I feel that if the distributor cannot get this spliced in frame from the outset, then they probably don't deserve to have their tag shown at all (although I did replace it).

Agree/disagree? Have others received trailers, features or other materials that arrived 'as new' which were not in frame?

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-05-2001, 01:04 PM:

Out-of-frames don't usually happen with new prints here in the US, probably because trailers are printed right with the feature. As with any "mass production" item, it's in everybody's best interest to try to do things correctly from the start.

If your prints are from the US, some guy has to manually edit in the the logo.. no way to automate that, so errors will occur.

All you can do is say; "Idiot!" and fix it. If it happens often, then complain to the distributor, I guess. Maybe it can be traced to "Editor Number 47."

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-05-2001, 02:23 PM:

John said: "Maybe it can be traced to "Editor Number 47."

I've always suspected "Editor Number 13" was the bad apple. Right along with inspection by "Integrity".

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-05-2001, 02:32 PM:

Who knows where the problem came. I've seen prints where there was a light line between the attached trailer and the feature that was an "in frame" place to cut...but only on 2 of the 3 prints for example. The guys adding the trailers may have checked one out and just assumed that all were printed from the same interneg and thus made the mistake.

Personally, I would fix the splice and keep running the tag if it can be made seamless. The only time I do not run the tag is if I get a used print and the fadeup is missing or there are marks on it from a sloppy projectionist at a trade screening. In that instance, the studio logo gets thrown in the trash can and I request a new reel. If the reel comes, then it is swapped out. If the reel does not come, then the studio does not get their tag shown. Same thing if the guys attaching the logos cut off the fadeup of the studio logo or fadeout of the attached trailer. (The Fox logo is the worst one for easily made mistakes since the audio is ahead of the picture.) I don't have much patience with people who cannot properly handle film.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-05-2001, 06:34 PM:

We had a factory new trailer a few months ago for "American Outlaws" that had a long strip of white tape holding two film-ends together, right in the middle of the trailer! It was obvious roll-ends, because there were holes punched in the film stock on both sides of the "splice." If this is the future of lab splices, watch out!

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 10-09-2001, 07:29 PM:

Ours was in frame, but they have (almost) removed the entire MGM logo as well. I say almost because they have tried to keep the start of the soundtrack in place (which is commendable) but to do this and still remove the MGM tag, the last 8 frames of the MGM tag fading out had to be kept in.

I think all the MGM tag should have been left on as the very first thing that comes up in the opening titles is MGM Presents anyway...

Fox should just put the tag in the box with the print...I'll do the rest.

BTW...another bloody photoguarded print.

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 10-10-2001, 02:48 PM:

I remember one of our prints of Air Force One (brand new I might add) had a bad factory splice inbetween the attached trailer and the main feature.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-10-2001, 02:54 PM:

If you find a splice exactly between the attached trailer and the feature, it was obviously made AFTER the film was printed and processed by the lab. Sometimes the lab is contracted to do this, in their "positive assembly" area. Splicing on trailers may also be subcontracted, or done at the film exchange. Finally, the print may have been at another theatre, and had the trailer removed, and then spliced back on. "Factory" splices on polyester film are usually made with an ultrasonic splicer.