This is topic Make-up while the show is running in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by German Marin (Member # 918) on 10-07-2001, 02:25 AM:
 
I've taken down a movie while the show is running but i've never tried to make up when it's running. I work in a 7 screen multiplex, all projectors are Christie P35GPS and Christie AW3R platters. I've heard that it's easy to do with speco platters. Is possible to do this in a christie platter?.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-07-2001, 04:11 AM:
 
I've done it, but I didn't like it and I certainly wouldn't recommend doing it. There really is no reason to risk potential damage just because someone couldn't get the print to you earlier, or just for bragging rights.
 
Posted by Carl King (Member # 398) on 10-07-2001, 07:24 AM:
 
explain, please.

Do you mean that you would be makeing up the same print that you are running? SOund a little scary to me.

 


Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 10-07-2001, 08:38 AM:
 
From what I see on my travels, it is pretty common to make up a print onto say, the middle deck while the show is running on top and bottom. Same goes for break down. All my regular services are runnign Strong Alpha or DMC platters and I've never known this practice to cause any problems with those machines. Can't speak for Christie or other makes. It's also very common to make up or break down on the non running side of a tower.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-07-2001, 09:34 AM:
 
I say it's perfectly OK to make up or break down a print while the show is running on almost any brand of platter system.

Just remember to be careful and run the make up table SLOWLY. On certain kinds of platters (Speco comes to mind) you can blow the main fuse when you "crank" the speed control while the show is under way.

Another thing to remember when using Speco: The bottom of the decks on the Speco have metal battens on the bottom which will act like a giant fan when the deck gets up a good "head of steam". If you are running the show between the top and bottom platter, for instance, and you are breaking a print from the middle, the "fan effect" will cause the film on the bottom to get tangled; thus risking a brain wrap.

The solution is to make sure you build or break from the bottom deck or else run the break down table SLOWLY.

There are certain times in a large theatre when you pretty much have to build and break a print while another is running on the same platter. You just have to learn the peculiarities of your system and make sure you know how the proper "work arounds."

 


Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 10-07-2001, 09:43 AM:
 
It can be also made-up and packed off while screening a film on a Cinemeccancia CNR Platter.

We normally try to breakdown a print on the middle level and make up on either top or bottom.
 


Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 10-07-2001, 10:35 AM:
 
A multiplex near me has Christie platters and when they find it necessary do make up or break down during projection. Their strict procedure is to always make up and check prints on a bench rewinder onto 6,000’ spools first. For breaking down onto 6,000’ spools, then the electric rewinder for packing into 2,000’ cans.

For the Tower system here (as Pete said), I can very easily make-up (always checked on 6,000’ spools first) or break down into 2,000' on the other side during a show.

 


Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 10-07-2001, 11:06 AM:
 
Randy to prevent that main fuse from blowing on a speco platter system the fuse must be changed from a 3 amp fuse to a 5 amp fuse in the main fuse holder at the bottom of the platter tree....once this is done there should be no more problems with fuse blowing while breaking down and running features at same time.....
 
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-07-2001, 12:11 PM:
 
Perhaps I'm missunderstanding, but I think German is talking about making up the same print that is currently playing. I've heard of people winding the first half onto the platter from a 6K reel then attatching the second half and having it run on to the platter while the movie is playing. Ouch.

If you are talking about making up or breaking down a different print on the same platter system while another is playing, that's no problem. I always use the bottom deck in either case because of those platter support arms that act like a fan, as Randy said. It's not just with Speco.
 


Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-07-2001, 01:26 PM:
 
Yes, I know about putting in a larger fuse. In fact, I put them in to just about all the Specos I have.

I just didn't mention it because if you do put a larger one in, you can potentially cause other problems. For instance, if you accidentally press two green buttons at the same time and both payout controls, for some reason, get moved into the "run" position at the same time, the current surge can casue things to start frying. You could simply require changing out the payout control card(s) or you could end up replacing one of those pushbutton switch assemblies.

If you put a 3 amp fuse in there, as recommended, you'll simply pop the fuse. If you put a 5 amp fuse in there, there is potential for trouble.

If / when I put larger fuses in the platter, I make sure to warn people about not pushing two buttons of the same color at any time. (Except for prescribed emergency procedures.)
 


Posted by German Marin (Member # 918) on 10-07-2001, 02:19 PM:
 
Ken is right. Sometimes the movie not come early then I've had to start the show 15 minutes later after I've finished the make up (it take me 30-40 minutes). I think it could be possible if 2 projectionist do a good team work, while the first is pulling the film that go to projector from platter (he must be careful and not scratch the film) when he get the tail the another one projectionist splice the second reel that lie in other platter.
Randy, I have christie platters and i guess that it is slower than speco however, if I accelerate the platters by hand, could it be damage?.
I'm just taking prevents because I know someday the movie doesn't come early.
Thanks.
German
 
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 10-07-2001, 03:14 PM:
 
On a Christie platter, there is no problem with building up and tearing down prints on the platter while a seperate print is running! But do not attempt to build up/tear down a print that is running?!
When building-up and tearing-down, common sense as well as correct procedures that have been discussed in other threads prevail!
 
Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 10-07-2001, 04:01 PM:
 
what I have done in cases of haveing prints come late on day of show is I will put half the movie together on one plattter and finish the second half on the second platter. Then start show on time and have someone tell people as they buy tickets that there will be a brief intermission to finish build-up....stop film before run out and splice second section on....this is a lot easier and safer than what you have mentioned.....

Randy

interesting about the power surging the boards...tells me that the three amp fuse used in the payout control either is not three amps or needs to be smaller to prevent this from happening....this fuse should blow if anything above three amps is introduced.....I was told that putting a five amp fuse in the main inline power box would be fine so long as the fuses that protect the payout and the take up were not changed to a bigger fuse.
 


Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-07-2001, 04:33 PM:
 
German, with the MUTs unplugged, stick a small screwdriver into the small hole beside the speed control and turn that trimpot fully clockwise. That will increase your speed.

On loading a film that is currently running, this is incredibly stupid. I'll admit I have done this before and why I did is beyond me. Nowadays I would much rather go into the auditorium and tell all of the customers that the print arrived late and that they can get their refunds by calling 1-800-99-FILMS. If you have to load a film that is running because someone has a gun to your head, then you must remove the belt in the MUT and have the majority of the film already on the platter (say the first 4 reels of a 7 reeler). Still though, no performance is worth the incredible risk to the print from doing this. The slightest bounce from the reel will throw your print off of the platter.
 


Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 10-07-2001, 05:23 PM:
 
I dont know about you all, but at the theater where I worked, Fed Ex or some other shipper --such as AZ Film Delivery delivered prints.

There were many times that they delivered prints late. Generally speaking, we received our prints between 12:00 and 3:00 on Thurs. If they had not delivered by 3:00, then our home office as well as the distributor was notified.

In my opinion, if the projectionist does not receive the print by the early afternoon proceeding opening day, then it is his/her responsibility to notify theater management, the home office (if your company has one) as well as the distributor and shipper. There should really be no valid reason (unless a major aw shit occours) for films not to be prepped and ready to go on opening day.

In any case, trying to build a print as it is running is unacceptable and is looking for trouble!

If a major aw shit occours where the print is not delivered on time, maybe the distributors and shippers should be charged for the lost revenue?
 


Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-07-2001, 06:14 PM:
 
The only was I would even consider doing such a thing would be to, say put an hour on the platter, then run it. While that's going, make up the next hour on a reel. When the show runs out, stop the show, splice on the reel and run from the make-up table. Of course, it depends on other factors (like if the MUT is designed for the reels to lie flat, this might not work), but the whole thing is distaseful.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-07-2001, 08:59 PM:
 
I agree with you Darryl. The only fuse that should be "upgraded" is the main power fuse at the very bottom of the tree. NOT the on on the variac and CERTAINLY not the one under the cover on the coltrol box! I have seen both of these occur and in one case, the variac was fried. In the case of the one under the cover, I caught it before any damage had the chance to occur. When I found out that people were putting the wrong fuses in I went around and checked all the others. What I think was happening was that people were just tossing any old fuse that fit without even looking to see what the rating was.

Another thing I have seen is that people have put Slow-blow fuses in, thinking that would help. This is another big NO-NO! Luckily, I caught that one in time and I reamed out the guy who did it, then made him go around and put all the right fuses back in.

The most common problems I have seen from putting the wrong fuses in are blown payout control cards and fried contacts on the switch banks. The second most common thing is a fried variac. Replacing variacs and payout cards is pretty academic. It's just the cost and inconvenience (and lost shows) that causes you the most heartache. However, changing out those switches is a royal pain in the arse! I have had to do it about 1/2 dozen times over the years. Unsoldering the wires and reconnecting them is just about the worst job you'll have to do when it comes to repairing Specos. You only have a few inches of wire to work with so you don't have much room for error when it comes to cutting and stripping wires. Not only that, you don't have much room to manuver, even when you take the whole switch bank apart.
The fact that Speco has changed the design of the switches doesn't help much. You have to figire out where the new connections are and if you don't get it right, you'll cause more trouble. I had to undo somebody else's handywork in that area once and it took me a whole day to first figure out what was screwed up and then to redo it again correctly. IF you have one of the newer Speco designs the switch change is rather painless because they have made it so that they just plug in. The problems come when you have to "retrofit" a new switch into the old wiring scheme.

I have no problems with people putting a 5 amp fuse into the bottom of the tree as long as they remember to never press two buttons of the same color at the same time. I know accidents happen sometimes but with some people, it's like talking to a brick wall. (The instruction manual plainly states that you should never do that, even with a 3 amp fuse.)

If you can't drum in into people's thick skulls how to work the equipment properly I just think it's better to leave a 3 amp fuse in there, like it was originally, and leave well enough alone. The only problem is that you either have to drum it into their skulls about the buttons or you have to drum it into people's skulls about not running the make up tables at top speed. It's a catch-22 situation. That's why I didn't mention it in the first place.

At least, with the Christie MUTs, I can "handicap" them by lowering the maximum speed control so that they don't run too fast. I have taken to doing that at selected locations because they were scratching film when they were making up the movie for the first time. In places where this has happened, handicapping the tables has minimized the problem.

As to simultaneously building and showing a print, I suppose it's theoretically possible. OK, so Brad has done it but he's the Master. Even HE cringes at the mere mention of it. I have toyed with the idea of doing it as well but, on that occasion, I went home and took a nap until the feeling went away.
 


Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 10-08-2001, 12:44 AM:
 
Brad - are you describing running a platter with the first half of the show on the platter, running off the center as usual... but with the second half on a 6000 spliced to the outside and being pulled on to the platter during the show?
If so, it's just about the strangest idea I've heard! It would be pretty cool if it worked, but extremely insane. I doubt if many platters (maybe the SCDC?) would be able to do that.

 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-08-2001, 01:18 AM:
 
Yes, that is exactly what I did. It was on a SPECO LP270 platter actually. Why in the hell would I do such an insane thing? The print came in right before the show was to start and the house manager was demanding I get it on screen "right now" any way possible because the Mitchells (the owners) were in the auditorium.

It did work, but I don't think I'll ever do it again. That was just stupid. The safety of the print is not worth the few extra minutes saved in loading it properly.
 


Posted by German Marin (Member # 918) on 10-08-2001, 02:36 AM:
 
Thank you for all the team of film-tech. I know that its dangerous. That's why i'll try not to do that. I just want to prevent any bad procedure. It was my first time to be post in forums and it was great. I hope i can help you in other forum topic in the future. Brad, this is a very great site, I've learned almost all the excellents procedures from tips section. Thanks a lot.

German Marin from Venezuela.
 


Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 10-08-2001, 09:13 AM:
 
How about this procedure. A little background as to why.

A long time a ago there once lived...

Thursday night, ready to screen. Try to get the (Christie) center ring out and guess what. The belt got jammed on the mut and created an incredible amount of back tension that the ring was actually compressed closed.

So, down onto 6K's it went. It wasn't until about the last trailer was off did the ring loosen up. So I thought, hmmmmmm, spend another 30 minutes or so spinning the print back on, or .... screen directly off the 6K's and let it build back up on the platter.

Ok, so set the MUT between the platter and the projector to avoid any twisting, go from the bottom mut roller to the top platter roller. From the bottom projector roller through the feet of the mut, carefull of the cross bar of the MUT, and continue to thread the platter regularly.

When it gets close to the end of the reel, changeover time. Worked incredibly well with no damage. I wouldn't do this as habit, but it saved time on a night that was starting late to begin with.

... and they lived happily ever after.
 


Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-08-2001, 12:53 PM:
 
Trying to "make-up" a plattered show as the film is actually being projected, or to "break it down" onto shipping reels right on the projector is NOT "Film Done Right"!!! IMHO, there is a 100% chance you will cause dirt and scratches, and the risk of severe damage is very high.



 


Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 10-08-2001, 06:01 PM:
 
now I have put movies on 6o's and ran each 60 off the reel spindle on the projector to the platter while the film was playing and stop it just before the end of the reel and splice the new reel on and finish running it thru.....I could do this at the old theater I worked at years ago.....
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-08-2001, 06:56 PM:
 
Long ago, I had a situation arise where some butt head put the 4th reel of a feature on tails-first. Even though somebody was SUPPOSED to have screened the print, it wasn't and the show went on despite the wrong reel. In the middle of the print, of course, the picture started running upside down, backwards and in reverse. I had to quickly figure out what to do.

What I ended up doing was breaking down the print to the end (beginning ) of the wrong reel, splicing it back together the right way and running the rest of the show off a 6,000 foot reel by placing the make-up table between the platter and the projector.

It's something that never should have happened but, none the less, it did. In a situation like that you have to do whatever is necessary to let the show "go on". I would never do something like that unless it was absolutely necessary. Thus, I would classify any method of running a showl like this, other than the prescribed methods, as a last minute, "save-the-show" technique.

In such a situation, I might add that it is well worth taking an extra five minutes to stand back and look at the problem to come up with a logical course of action, rather than responding with some half-assed solution that might cause further interruptions down the road. Customers don't like interruptions like this but when presented with some problem like this they understand that "shit happens". They have a certain tolerance for problems like this and might very well give you a "Mulligan" BUT they are likely to become VERY pissed off if something else happens. It, therefore, becomes necessary to make the "fix" on the first try.
That having been said, it's MUCH better to let people wait for two extra minutes while you get your shit together than to make them wait for a half hour while you run around like a chicken with its head cut off, making one mistake after another.


 






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