This is topic RGM Pilot Lights in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-11-2001, 08:22 PM:
My theatre has the red and green pilot lights next to each mylar box that tell us whether the movie is playing (green light), has dropped (red) or is threaded but not playing (no lights). Yesterday I went around and replaced all the lights that were out, so I could get all these things working. I have a couple of problems. On one of them, both lights are on when the film is playing. However, the green light does go off when the film drops. On two others, the green light never comes on. Is anyone familiar with this system? Any idea what the problem could be? The two who's green light doesn't come on are using RGM Spats automation. The other is Spats II.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-11-2001, 10:32 PM:
Since I neither manual here with me I would tend to ask myself one question
Do all of the units that are the same model do the same thing if so then it might be a design issue
Usually in a simple automation like this check for a bad relay or a jammed micro switch on the cam
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-11-2001, 10:51 PM:
First of all, no, not all the units of the same model do the same thing. I have 6 Spats II's, and only one of them light the red and green lights when the movie srunning. I have 4 Spats, and the green light does light on 2 of them. I will check for a jammed switch on the cams, but I don't think that is the problem because these are the remote indicators. The lights on the automation boxes work. Also, the Spats II doesn't use cams, so what could be the problem there? So I was just wondering how these remote indicators are wired.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-12-2001, 09:08 AM:
Check for a open connection going to the remote box as that can cause wierd effects especially if it is the common
Posted by Freddie Dobbs (Member # 915) on 10-12-2001, 09:44 AM:
Seems like I have had the problem with both lights comming on and it has been the common at the status box is not between the lamps, is has both lamps in series to one feed(red or green control). II did get the manual scanned with the acceptions of the 11 X 14 sheets, I will try to get them reduced and scanned today. BTW the the only way the cam can cause problems would for it to be causing the automation to not operate properly.
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-12-2001, 11:37 AM:
Freddie said: "BTW the the only way the cam can cause problems would for it to be causing the automation to not operate properly."That's what figured. I didn't see how the cams could cause problems with the remote boxes.
So am I looking for an open at the remote box or at the automation? when I changed the bulbs on the remote boxes, I checked the wiring and it looked okay, but I will look again.
Where on the automation are the wires to these remote boxes connected? That's what I really need to know. Thanks, guys!
Posted by Freddie Dobbs (Member # 915) on 10-13-2001, 07:52 AM:
Ken,
on the Spatts II
TB5-7 is the red indicator
TB5-8 is the Green Indicator
TB5-3 is the common to bothI cant find my notes for Spatts I , everything in is piles and files for the scanning process, I will find it and get the info to you.
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-14-2001, 12:46 AM:
OK, here is what I found out.The two unit's who's green lights do not work are using Spats I. I know the connections above say for Spats II, but I assume they are the same. On one of the units, I looked at the wires that went down a pipe and into the floor. One of them was a thick shielded cable with 3 separate wires in it. One of these wires was connected to TB5-3, and one was connected to TB5-7. The other, however, was connected to TB5-6, not 8. I am assuming that this cable that goes down into the floor is for the remote indicators. But isn't TB5-6 for the "ready" light? Isn't that light always lit when the failsafe is loaded? So even if the "running" light were connected to that terminal, shouldn't it still light? This is the same wiring configuration for the second unit. Assuming these are the correct wires I am looking at, why would two separate units be miss-wired the same way like this? Could something else be the problem?
As far as the one where both red and green lights are lit when the movie is running, that one has me stumped! I checked TB5 and it seems to be wired correctly. This is Spats II, and the problem occurs on the automation as well as the remote lights.
I also found out that another one of our Spats I's is not lighting the red light downstairs. Looks like TB5 is wired correctly.
Posted by Freddie Dobbs (Member # 915) on 10-14-2001, 05:08 PM:
Ken, The I and II are not the same, Tb5-6 is correct for Spatts I . Tb5-6 should go to ground when the motor starts so If you put a meter on Tb5-6 and Tb5-3 and start the motor with the automatiom (not the manual switch) it should read 28vdc.
I think the best place to start for the SpattsII would be remove the wired that go to the remote status box on the mini marquee and see if you still have the problem..
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-14-2001, 05:55 PM:
Thank you, Freddie. I now finaly have a Spats I manual. 
Since TB-6 IS the correct terminal for the "running" light on the remote status, what else could the problem be??The schematic that shows TB5 is labled "remote control." The indicators at my theatre do not have any buttons on them. They are just status panels. Is that still TB5, without the wiring for the start, stop, and intermission buttons? thanks.
Posted by Freddie Dobbs (Member # 915) on 10-15-2001, 10:35 AM:
Ken,
Thats correct, the remote box is the status minus the controls and the ready light. Best I remember there is no light on when the machine is threaded and ready to run. I think the best place to start would still be like i posted earler."The I and II are not the same, Tb5-6 is correct for Spatts I . Tb5-6 should go to ground when the motor starts so If you put a meter on Tb5-6 and Tb5-3 and start the motor with the automatiom (not the manual switch) it should read 28vdc.
I think the best place to start for the SpattsII would be remove the wired that go to the remote status box on the mini marquee and see if you still have the problem.."
Let me know what you find.... Good luck
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-16-2001, 09:20 PM:
Well, when I disconnected the remote lights on #3 (That's the one runnings Spats II and the red light stays on during the show, both at the remote and on the automation), and ran a test loop, the red light stayed off. I reconnected it again, and during the next show, the red light came on when I pressed start! Why would the presence of the remote have any affect on the automation's lights??On house 1 (one of the Spats I's whose remote green light will not light), I replaced the red "end/break" light on the automation today because I noticed it was out. Now during the show, it stays on, and so does the red light at the remote. This did not happen before. And the green light on the remote still won't come on. hmmm....
Posted by Freddie Dobbs (Member # 915) on 10-17-2001, 08:00 AM:
Lets see, you have Norelco machines, I dont remember if the top loop check was disconnected, I believe they were, #3 is a small house with a Spatts II, The correct operation with disconnected status tells me that the wire that goes to the red light on the status is going to ground somewhere.On the Spatts I, did you have the end or break switch on? BTW where is Tom, I thought he got paid to fix this stuff?
Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 10-17-2001, 08:26 AM:
"BTW where is Tom, I thought he got paid to fix this stuff?"ROTFL! Send Tom an invoice Freddie. Sounds like this one is a tiger by the tail and you deserve to get paid a consult fee.
In case folks don't know, Freddie does tech work for a living. He is good, honest as the day is long, and reliable. If I owned theatres I'd hire his services in a heartbeat. I'm glad he decided to start posting here to help people out. (Unsolicited plug)
Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 10-17-2001, 08:41 AM:
Ditto. (Unsolicted)
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-17-2001, 09:00 AM:
How do you know what machines I have, and how do you know Tom? I plan on asking him next time I see him, but it's not that big of a deal, and he lives 2 hours away.On #1, I didn't even think to check the End/Break switch was on. Amazing how easy it is to overlook the simple things! Will check next time.
Thanks for your help!
Posted by Freddie Dobbs (Member # 915) on 10-17-2001, 03:10 PM:
Bob and Jerry, Not to be confused with Tom and Jerry or... na
You guys make me blush...Thanks..
You see Ken, We know every move you make, the "New order" will decide if the projection quality is good enough to let the Oaks operate.
Bob Marr is the figurehead and Jerry Chase is the strong arm..
Your case is pending.....................
Actualy, I have worked in the Oaks before, I use to Work for Cobb as a tech/gopher dude.... So the switch was in the bypass?
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-17-2001, 04:51 PM:
Don't know about that switch. I was off today. I'll definitely check tomorrow. What about #3?BTW, our projectors are Kinoton. Did that company used to be Norelco?
Posted by Freddie Dobbs (Member # 915) on 10-18-2001, 08:30 AM:
Ken"#3 the correct operation with disconnected status tells me that the wire that goes to the red light on the status is going to ground somewhere." That requires finding where the wire is touching something it should not.
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-18-2001, 10:37 PM:
OK. Also, #1, the End/Break switch was NOT on. The red light, on the automation and on the remote, stays on while the show is running in normal operation.On 1 and 3, when the red light is on during a show, it is half as bright as it normally is.
Posted by Freddie Dobbs (Member # 915) on 10-19-2001, 07:18 AM:
Same answer for 1 and 3, when you remove the ground problem on the wire feeding the red indicator only it will clear the problem up.