Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Patton in 70mm

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Posted by John Gordon (Member # 523) on 10-17-2001, 01:51 PM:

Word has it that Fox is restoring Patton, in 70mm

. Let's hope they also release Patton in 70mm as well

. If there is a 70mm release, what do you think the chances are it will be in the original Dimension 150? Doubtful I think, but 70mm would be very very welcomed indeed.

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 10-17-2001, 02:17 PM:

That would be great and give us another title to screen on the Cinerama screen.

there was a 70mm D150 print around in the UK a few years ago and we booked it for the Widescreen Weekend segment of the Bradford Film Festival as we were told it was in pretty good condition. When it arrived we couldn't even get one of the reels out of the transit case as at some time in it's history it appeared to have been stored in 12" of water and the spool was corroded to the case

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-17-2001, 02:30 PM:

John Gordon asked: "If there is a 70mm release, what do you think the chances are it will be in the original Dimension 150?"

Wasn't D-150 a function of the camera lenses, projector lens, and the curved screen? If so, a contact print of the original negative would automatically be D-150.

Was the specified radius of curvature and "wrap" for D-150 screens the same as 3-strip Cinerama? Was D-150 150-degrees, and Cinerama 146-degrees? What were the radii?

I fondly remember experiencing a 70mm print of "Patton" several times in Buffalo NY on a deep curved screen --- WOW!

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-17-2001, 04:18 PM:

If it was filmed in D150, wouldn't some one have to "de-D150" it so it could run on a regular 70mm setup? There are so few D150 theaters left, I'm sure no one would pay to make D150 prints.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-17-2001, 05:18 PM:

That would be way cool! Saw it in D-150 at the Bismark Theatre in Chicago years ago.
So you don't get mixed up by whats in the red book with all the mistakes here is how it was set up.......
D-150 utilized standard spherical camera lenses but instead of being specified in mm, or inches of focal length they were specified in degrees of coverage like the Todd-AO System worked. The cameras were standard Mitchell BFC's. You ended up with a standard Todd-AO type negative/print that could be run on any 70mm system. The projection lens called a "Super Curvulon" is what performed the "Miracle" of D-150. It was a special lens that distorted the projected 70mm image so it would appear normal on the deeply curved screen. This eliminated the stretching effect on the sides as when a regular 70mm film was run on a deep curved screen with a standard lens. The lens was big, and heavy, it ate up some light too. This was a complete system. Lenses, masking system, and screen which was a special lenticuluar type of German manufacture. All of the lenses for other formats were also provided by D-150 so as not to project an image that would fill the entire screen. This kept projected images within their capable limits and also did not allow them to fill the entire screen thus confusing the movie going public and making other films look as though they were filmed in D-150.
The thing that usually happened later on is that all 70mm film was projected through the special D-150 Super Curvulon lens. That works fine. Today any screens that are left are usually also filling the screen which in some cases is so large that it goes beyond the capabilities of the 35mm formats. Resulting in undesriable image quality. Dr Richard Vetter and Carl Williams designed the system. Carl Williams still runs a theatre supply company on the west coast. Doc Vetter is also still active at consulting in the entertanment industry.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 10-17-2001, 09:28 PM:

There are pictures of the D-150 lens at these sites:
http://www.govst.edu/users/gaskrau/d150lens.jpg
http://www.govst.edu/users/gaskrau/front.jpg

Mark Lensenmayer
Link Master, Jr.

Posted by Thomas Hauerslev (Member # 566) on 10-18-2001, 02:02 AM:

Please read Grant Lobbans excellent article on Dimension-150 here

Also included are text about the UCLA D-150 driving simulater, printer lenses, films and cinemas.

------------------
Cheers, Thomas
..in70mm - The 70mm Newsletter
www.in70mm.com www.dp70.com www.70mm.dk www.hauerslev.com http://hjem.get2net.dk/in70mm

Posted by Phil Connolly (Member # 465) on 10-18-2001, 04:05 AM:

Dick,

Have you got a D-150 lense at Bradford?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-18-2001, 07:59 AM:

Thomas and Mark --- great links. Thanks.

Are all the D-150 projector lenses in the hands of collectors? How many theatres were properly equipped for the format?

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 10-18-2001, 09:16 AM:

We do have a D150 lens here in Bradford though sadly it was slightly damaged in transit to us and we have not used it in anger as yet.

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 10-18-2001, 09:39 AM:

John,

I have heard the River Oaks in Chicago still has the lens in its original box.

Mark Gulbrandsen might know about that one.

Mark L.

Posted by John Gordon (Member # 523) on 11-06-2001, 12:33 PM:

A screening of Patton, in 70mm of course, will be Fri. Nov. 16th at the Academy Theatre in Beverly Hills. Tickets are $5.00 and going fast. Any film-techers going to this? If so, let's have a little get together pre or post screening. What do you say?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-06-2001, 01:46 PM:

John Gordon said: "A screening of Patton, in 70mm of course, will be Fri. Nov. 16th at the Academy Theatre in Beverly Hills. Tickets are $5.00 and going fast."

One of the advantages to living in Southern California! Wish I could be there.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-06-2001, 03:17 PM:

Mark Lensenmayer said......
"I have heard the River Oaks in Chicago still has the lens in its original box."
Indeed there is a pair of Super Curvalon D-150 lenses there as well as the rest of the lens compliment. The picture on Steve's Vacant lot is of one of those lenses. Both projectors are also still there (DP-75's) one set up for Xenon and the other still sporting its Super Cinex Arc Lamp.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Les Brock (Member # 1041) on 11-06-2001, 05:05 PM:

The last D-150 screen in London was at the Odeon Marble Arch. I remember seeing Patton there and it looked so good.

A smaller screen was installed as Odeon probably thought that they would never use D-150 again.

The cinema is still open but has been made into a plex so the big auditorium is gone.

I wonder where the D-150 lenses went, maybe someone from Odeon / Rank will read this and can reveal what happened to them.

Posted by Thomas Hauerslev (Member # 566) on 11-07-2001, 02:20 AM:

The D-150 lenses went back to Todd-AO as most of them did. Lenses were only on loan to theatres.

I have a picture of my own D-150 lens here along with other great lenses from an era long gone by.

------------------
Cheers, Thomas
..in70mm - The 70mm Newsletter
www.in70mm.com www.dp70.com www.70mm.dk www.hauerslev.com http://hjem.get2net.dk/in70mm

Posted by John Gordon (Member # 523) on 11-20-2001, 06:26 PM:

Wow! Saw Patton at the Academy last Fri in all of its glorius 70mm splender. And wow. It looked great, especially when you consider its age. Very good detail
The sound was pretty good too--essentially format 42 via DTS--considering its age as well--meaning no deep bass or aggressive surrounds. The screen channel pans were nice and smooth. It was a tad harsh here and there, but over all, nicely done.

Next up in 70mm, 2001: A Space Oddyssey screening at the Egyptian for a complete week long run at the end of Dec.