Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Using portalbe pump for watercooled projectors&lamphouses

This is topic Using portalbe pump for watercooled projectors&lamphouses in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 10-20-2001, 04:46 AM:

Has anyone been in a situation or circumstance where they use a multitude of watercooled projectors & lamphouses & cannot afford
additional water circulators? A small portable pump would be ideal.
Gorman-Rupp makes a small portable electric pump (www.gormanrupp.com)
called a handy pump. One of their such pump could supply enough
water pressure to such a multitude of water cooled lamphouses & projectors. you may also want to check one of their divisions which is Gorman-Rupp Industries. I would use that type & brand of pump
to first curculate water through such a multitude of equipment
then through a small automotive type of A/C evaporator coil
with a blower forcing air through it,through the pump & back through
the equipment.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-20-2001, 08:40 AM:

I also have wondered if one big pump would be OK, instead of a pump for each projector. Pumps are kind of expensive (I think Strong stopped making their better quality steel tank-brass impeller pumps.) A water chiller would probably be required, as the water would get pretty warm. We did an 18-plex; at $200 a pump, a central unit might have been better.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-20-2001, 12:44 PM:

Naw! One circuit for each projector! By the time the water went from the first projector, down to the last projector the water would be too hot to do any good. A chiller on the end of the line (or the beginning) would be useless. You'd have to put a chiller at at least two or three places down the line. That would be mondo expensive! Not to mention maintainence and repair costs. What would happen if one of the lines got clogged up? It might take you weeks to figure out where the clog is.

You can go to Lowe's or Home Depot and buy a fish pond pump that will replace the one in your cooling tank if it dies on you. They only cost about $50 - $60 as compared to the $200 you mention, John. And they will last, theoretically, forever if you keep the water clean.

Another thing: Don't put so much antifreeze in the water. At first, we used the recommended amount of 1 gal. of antifreeze to 4 gal. of water. We cut that down to 1:5 or even less. Just enough to make the water turn green. Not only is antifreeze expensive, but it can cause the pumps to die prematurely if there's too much. (Buying "epoxy sealed" as opposed to "oil filled" pumps also helps them last longer.) When we cut down the antifreeze ratio, we found that our pumps virtually quit dying on us. Where before, we would end up replacing pumps every six months or so. Now we replace, maybe, one or two a year.

I have found that, IF you change the water often, you don't need to use distilled water, either. Just draw a big bucket full of tap water and let it sit out for a week or two so the clorine can dissipate. The antifreeze should take care of any hard water scale, etc. Just remember to change the water and flush out the lines at LEAST a couple of times a year.

How about this... When you change the oil in your projectors, change the water too.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-20-2001, 05:03 PM:

You know, Randy, we do put a lot of antifreeze in the tanks. I'll have to try your idea of putting in less.

Don't forget that the $200 price included a tank, lid and connecting hoses. For replacement, we buy those "Little Giant" NK2 pumps. They are oil-filled; do you have a model number of the epoxy sealed ones? I'd like to try them.

For our bigger theaters, we got those Strong tanks (the ones I don't think they make anymore.) The motor is outside on top, and a brass impeller is on a shaft. The motor still dies. Can't find a replacement motor for them, and can't figure out how to get the impeller shaft off to replace it.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-20-2001, 06:00 PM:

I still like the old Ashcraft circulators when they die I take them to either a pump or motor shop and they rebuild them

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 10-20-2001, 07:00 PM:

What Gordon does makes alot of sense. It is usually less expensive to rebuild the pumps than it is to replace them, especially if they are commercial grade.

Paul

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 10-20-2001, 07:08 PM:

For a variety of different pumps try WW Grainger
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/homepage.jsp

I bet you can find one you like between $50 & $70.
I use different submersible pumps (from them) for coolant and water circulation around the shop.

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut http://www.muellersatomics.com/

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-20-2001, 07:30 PM:

The exact model number of the pumps, I don't know. When I have to replace one I just go to whatever store is in the area, either Lowe's or Home Depot, and head to the Garden and Patio Shop. I find a pump that has the closest ratings (GPM) and the same size fittings. (1/4 inch nipple) Most garden / fish pond pumps are epoxy, nowadays. It'll say something about it on the outside of the package. Since the "normal" use for these things is for fish ponds in people's gardens, it's an advertising point when they aren't filled with oil. Think of what might happen when an oil filled pump blows a seal and spews its guts into some person's beautiful pond full of expensive Japanese goldfish!

I cut the old cords off the original tanks. (Save them if you can! You never know when you could need a line cord like that!) We never used the switches on top of those (Blue and white Strong) circulators anyway. They were plugged into the convenience outlet on the side of the projector. The power was turned off when you shut the projector off at night. There is a hole in the top of the lid of the tank. I just pop out the plug and run the cord out that hole. Everything else should be "plug-and-play" if you bought the right pump. If the unit is in a high traffic area, or you are otherwise worried about spillage, just make a new plug to seal the hole around the cord.

Whether you put less antifreeze in the tank or not is up to your discression. Like I said, it can get expensive. At the temperatures and pressures we're using it for, the "thermal properties" of antifreeze only gives you a little bit of benefit. The way I understand it is that the main reason to use it is for its antibacterial/corrosion inhibiting properties. (It keeps the water from getting scummy.) If you clean the tanks out and back-flush the lines often enough you shouldn't have a problem with that anyway.

One thing... discarding used antifreeze.
As you know, antifreeze it quite poisonous. Don't dump it down the storm drains, etc. If you can, you should take it to the local recycling center for reclaimation. If you can't do that, it's okay to dump SMALL amounts of it down the toilet. (Unless your local regulations prohibit it.) Your average municipal sewage plants can handle this kind of waste as long as there isn't too much of it. If you have a large multiplex you probably do this kind of maintainence in stages. One or two tanks full of antifreeze down the toilet, every couple of weeks, until the whole place is done won't hurt anything. All of your rinse water should go down the toilet as well.

If your old, Strong circulators are biting the dust on you and you can't get replacements I don't see why you can't make your own out of a fish pond pump and a medium sized plastic drum with a tight-fitting lid... as long as you do it according to the dictates of common sense and your local plumbing/electrical codes. Just make sure you use good quality tubing that won't deteriorate over time with exposure to antifreeze.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 10-21-2001, 07:41 AM:

How about using something like "CLR" instead? Though,
it's probably poison too....What about the new "non-
poisonous antifreeze?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-21-2001, 01:03 PM:

CLR would strip the lubricant from the pump bearings
Most of the all metal pumps relied on the antifreeze to provide a lubricant to the pump For years the Arcal and Ascrafts specified Xerex in a specific quantity be added

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-21-2001, 02:04 PM:

You're right, Gordon. When I was talking about putting in less antifreeze I was talking about the plastic submersibles. They are designed to pump clear water and other "light" liquids. Other kinds of pumps may need a certain level of antifreeze. I guess the real answer is, "RTFM!"

Non-poisonous antifreeze:
Regular antifreeze is especially dangerous because cats and dogs (and some kids) think it tastes good. They'll stand there and lap up a puddle of antifreeze until they get sick and die. IF you get the animal to the vet fast enough, there IS an antidote. Once the antifreeze gets into their liver, it is metabolized into toxins that cause all kinds of systemic damage, for which there is no cure. If you know your pet has been into the antifreeze get it to the vet, pronto! If I remember right, you only have about 20-30 minutes, depending on the size of the animal and how much it drank. After that, It's "Goodbye, Old Yeller!"
Non-poisonous antifreeze has two things going for it. 1) It doesn't tase good, so kittys (and kiddies) won't try to drink it. 2) Although it WILL make them sick, it won't kill them. It is STILL poisonous. It's just not AS poisonous.
Thing is, it's a lot more expensive. When you have a 10-screen to keep running, that can add up. If you change the coolant 2-3 times per year like we do, the difference really adds up!

The way I figure it, just keep using the regular old antifreeze but make sure you clean it up really well, and dispose of it properly. You shouldn't have any problems.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 10-23-2001, 07:23 AM:

1) I wanted to see what beast I'll be.
2) Antifreeze (a bit!)is good on the older circulators with the industrial pump - the motor on top and a bronze pump head down below. I don't like it with the new ones using the Little Giant immersed pump. My experience is that somehow it attacks the paint and metal on the pump body. A circulator/radiator I used had run for a few years with distilled water, the pump looked relatively new. For some reason we added antifreeze on one annual water change. The next year the pump had almost no paint and was covered with a green snot.
Also, water + antifreeze is a poorer coolant than plain water. Water has a much higher specific heat than any glycol. Antifreeze does what it's name suggests but actually reduces cooling performance. A car in a hot climate is better off with plain water. (True, the actual boiling point is lower, but I think a car that boils off the coolant has problems that antifreeze isn't going to help)

The reason for distilled water - it reduces electrochemical corrosion by reducing the conductivity of the water. There can be quite a nasty mix of dissimilar metals in a cooling circuit - copper is one of the nastiest. The water should be replaced regularly because it gets contaminated.

There is a product called "water wetter" that is supposed to increase the cooling capability of water. I dunno about that, but it turns it a cool colour, isn't conductive, and stops fungus.