Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Using DRAS on a Mac?

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-12-2001, 01:28 PM:

Has anybody out there done this?

I'm about to give it a test run in a day or two. I've got the software running. It seems to be running OK. I just haven't tried to hook it up to a processor yet.

I took the Keyspan USB/serial adaptor off my Palm Pilot and I've got it configured to be COM1.
Thus far, it all seems to be OK. I was just wondering if anybody else had any advice.

I'll report back when I get to the theatre and try it out.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-12-2001, 05:50 PM:

I assume you are using an incarnation of Virtual PC with Windows XP Spectactular Edition installed. Or maybe just DOS? Both are orgasmorific!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-12-2001, 09:02 PM:

I've actually found that SoftPC does better with DOS than Virtual PC. When I was in college...I routinely programed PCs and other Intel based chips on my Mac SE/30.

My suspicion is that DRAS may "work" but the little square box will be very sluggish. WINDRAS will probably be too slow to use...but give us your results.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-12-2001, 09:32 PM:

Yes, I'm using Virtual PC 4.0 and Windoze 98... under the auspices of an iBook 600 with OS 9.2.

I have VPC running and it's pretty good. Only thing is that you need shiploads of memory to make it run right. Right now I have the 128 MB that comes standard. I'm looking for another 128, at least. When I get that I think it'll run great.
On occasion I have noticed that it actually runs Windoze faster than on a PeeSee. Thing is, that when Windoze crashes there's a small chance that it can bring the Mac down with it. It happened to me once already.

I have all the software installed and running OK. There is DRAS for Windoze, USL's DSP-60 program and the SDDS program. All of them run just fine.

The problem is that the iBook only has USB ports and no DB-9 ports. IF I had the old-style ports it would be no problem. VPC can trick Windoze into thinking that any port on the machine belongs to IT. It can also make the USB ports work on Windoze too. So the kludge is that I'm gong to hook a Keyspan USB adapter to the Mac. VPC will successfully map the Keyspan to COM1. It shows up on the system just like normal.

I called Connectix, the company that made VPC and asked their opinion. They tell me that some people have had success hooking a Keyspan adaptor up to a device using a generic DB-9 serial port and they HAVE made it work. However, they tell me that there is no guarantee that the Keyspan will be able to "see" the device on the other end. Essentially, it's a crap shoot.

Thus, I was wondering if there was anybody out there who's done this or something similar who could give me pointers. Every OTHER time I come up with one of these crazy ideas I find out that somebody else has already done it.
I just can't believe I'm the first guy in the world to do this.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-12-2001, 09:46 PM:

Oh, you may be the first.

One thing I will recommend is that you make sure your Keyspan adapter has the latest driver running in your system. I don't know what version they are on now but until I upgraded to 1.7 on the extensions, it was less reliable...now the com port works just fine and I never even give it a second thought...its like my iMac has the good old Mac ports again....I still use my Imagewriter II for check printing all the time.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-13-2001, 12:40 AM:

The folks at Connectix, the makers of VPC, say that the Keyspan does work with it and it works very well but they only guarantee it will work with printers and Palm Pilots and the like. I was told that they know of some people who have used it to hook up their GPS devices and it has worked. It's just that they don't know anything about cinema processors. (Understandable.)

All they can tell me is that the Keyspan does work with SOME generic serial devices but it's a hit or miss proposition. I guess I can say that's encouraging news.

Now, if this DOES work and I AM the first one to do it, do I get a prize?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-13-2001, 01:20 AM:

Well I don't know much about that Keyspan thingy but I do have a tip for Windows '98. It needs a memory manager. One of the biggest issues with Windows 98 is fragmented memory (and also memory leaks). I think the program is called TurboMem or something like that, and it defrags your RAM and clears up RAM space and lets Win98 breathe much easier. It works very well, and makes the entire OS much more stable. Not quite as stable as Win2000, but that OS takes tons more CPU to run. Windows 98 on my G4 450Mhz under VPC 4.x was pretty sluggish. I never installed the memory manger in the emulated OS because VPC stopped working and I saw no reason to fix it since I ended up building a real PC which is networked with the Mac.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-13-2001, 09:49 PM:

Well, folks! The results are in!
I got both WinDRAS and DSO-60 to work!

Here's the proof:

WinDRAS

DSP-60

They both worked the first time right off the bat. No fooling around whatsoever. I'm pretty stoked!

Here is how I did it:

Installed Virtual PC.
Started VPC and installed the applications into VPC. (DRAS and DSP-60)
Tested the apps to make sure they were OK before proceeding, then shut down Windoze.
Installed the driver for the Keyspan USB/serial adapter. (Into Mac OS, not Windoze.)
Plugged in the adapter. (You have to do this before configuring VPC or else it won't let you go any further.)
Opened VPC settings panel.
Set VPC to emulate COM1 as the Keyspan.
Close the panel and start Windoze.
Hooked up the serial cable between the adaptor and the processor.
Started the application and connected.
Proceeded normally.

I didn't notice any problems with speed. The displays all seemed to update normally just as they would if they were running on a Wintel machine. I didn't spend much time going through all the differrent modes and other things but I did trigger the pink noise generator on the DSP-60. It went through all the channels just like it did before.

I didn't get a chance to try out the SDDS program because the theatre that I'm at, right now, doesn't have any SDDS. There's only a one of them on my regular route and only about 1/2 dozen of them in my whole region. Judging from the results I got with DRAS and DSP-60 I'm willing to bet that there'll be few, if any, problems with the SDDS program.

I'm pretty glad this is all working out so far! It's nice to be able to carry around just one computer that can do anything instead of having two machines and switching back and forth depending on what I'm trying to do. It'd be REALLY nice if I could find an oscilloscope program (like WinScope) and a spectrum analyzer program. (like SmartPRO) That way I could put my computer on a cart and carry around just the select group of hand tools and test films I need to do system tune ups with. Heck! If I could work it out that way I bet I could do my quick system checks of an entire theatre in about 1/2 the time!

Okay, so now that I'm officially the first guy to do this and document it, do I get a cookie or something?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-13-2001, 10:19 PM:

Since you are the first to have ever done it (I bet Dolby never even thought of it) you get the devine priviledge of buying me a G4 TiPowerbook. I'll expect it by Friday.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-13-2001, 11:16 PM:

While you're at it, you might as well wish for a pony too!

I just slapped down a mighty big chunk of change to get the iBook I have! It'll be a couple-three paychecks before I have the extra cash on hand.

This iBook 600 isn't bad at all!
For those who don't keep up on things Apple, the new ones aren't the fruit colored, clam shell design they were putting out last year. It's a totally new design.

As well as the above mentioned software I got an Airport card installed. (That's the IEEE 803b wireless thingamabob.) Now I can travel around the country and hitch hike on other people's broadband connections whenever they are stupid enough to leave the network open all the time without passwording it.

... Which gives me ANOTHER idea!...
How about we hook wireless base stations up in the theatres and connect them to the processors? Then, all I'd have to do is walk into the auditorium and pop open the computer. I could make adjustments or diagnose problems right on the spot!

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-14-2001, 01:22 AM:

I like how the iBook doesn't look like a toilet seat anymore. I know they have firewire now (don't they?). I'd get one but my big problem is that it's only a G3. Sure, a 600Mhz G3, but still a G3. My 450Mhz G4 is faster than your 600Mhz G3, or at least it better be. I want a G4 laptop....hence the priveledge of you buying me a TiBook ASAP. They are coming out with the G5 early next year and hopefully it will be as cool as a Pentium 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As everybody knows, Intel ROCKS! The little chime they play whenever their name is mentioned on TV is my favorite music of all time!!!!!!!!!!! Oh wait. I just heard that the G5 might, just might be a little better than that. Maybe then it will be powerful enough to run your mighty Sony program. By then Sony might make it so that their software only runs on their VIAOs.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-14-2001, 01:45 AM:

Gotta' FireWire, 2 USB's, and a video out that can be hooked to a VGA or a NTSC component video if you use the proper adapter. It comes with the VGA dongle. If you want the RGB you have to buy it seperately.

Yeah, it's only a G3/600 but it's got a 100 Mhz bus. It's pretty zippy, especially compared to the iMac DV/400 I have. I think the iMac is getting a bit jealous. I've been paying so much attention to the iBook lately with getting all the software running and then figuring out how to get DRAS to run on it. (Oh, we can't forget CCmail! I have to use that too! )

That's OK because the iMac has a CD burner, a scanner and a 30 GB hard drive. The way I figure, I'll do all my real work with the iBook and let the iMac be the "hub". I have Airport installed in both machines. I can scan junk on the iMac and file share it back and forth. I can share the printer over the Airport and even use the iMac's modem for the internet. (Still don't have DSL. )

Imagine... There I sit on the back porch with Guiness in hand, typing on the iBook. A theatre calls and tells me that they can't get the Dolby Digital to run. I just click a few keys and say, "There you go! All fixed!"

Hey! It could happen!

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-14-2001, 03:31 AM:

Next you will become Andrew McCrea who wants to own a theater and have automation that can be controlled from his computer at home. I'd be afraid to be threading one of those projectors... you never know when Andy might wanna press some buttons just to see what happens!

Did the iBook come with Mac OS X also?

Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 11-14-2001, 05:29 AM:

Randy,I guess Mr. Pytlak would want to do what you did as shown.
BTW,Mr. Pytlak,where are you?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-14-2001, 09:25 AM:

Yep! OS X.1 as a matter of fact. It's been set up as dual boot and not as a separate partition. All you have to do is go to the STARTUP DISK control panel and tell it which one to start up in next time. I don't use OS X very much. I've been using Mac OS since there was a Mac OS. I'm not ready to just change. When enough of the things I want to do become OS X naitive, I'll switch. I like OS X but I'm in no hurry.

I like just fooling around with automatic things. Being able to hook into the sound system remotely is one thing but starting projectors from the other side of the world is another. Essentially, it's fun to think about but you wouldn't want to do it in real life.

Matthew, I'm not selfish. Anybody who wants to do the same is quite welcome to try. As a matter of fact, as far as I'm concerned, I'd like to see as many people do it as possible. That way there'd be more reason for companies to make Mac-naitive software... the more people that want it, the faster it will happen.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-17-2001, 10:36 AM:

One nice thing about VPC 4 is the ability to have several different machines at the ready optimized for what you want. On my iMac DV SE, I have a virtual Win98SE, Win 3.1.1 and DOS 6.21 all ready to run. VPC 4.0 and beyond also have the virtual expanding hard disk so it is only as big as it needs to be rather than having to create large hard discs.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-17-2001, 05:39 PM:

My Virtual PC "C" drive (gotta love those creative Windows hard drive names!) was created with VPC1. VPC4 won't let me expand it! I guess the best way to get into the VPC phenomenon is to start with version 4, that way you don't have to try and copy all of your old stuff over to the new, expandable disk. That can be a royal pain, since Windows doesn't allow you to copy many programs by using drag 'n drop.

Posted by David Miller (Member # 412) on 11-19-2001, 05:29 PM:

I have been using my Powerbook G3/400 for six or seven months to connect to sound processors and electronic projectors and all kind of other stuff out in the field. I never had much luck with the Keyspan USB adapter you are talking about so I switched to a Socket I/O PC Card DB-9 adapter. The thing works like a dream. I have been able to connect to DFP 2K & 3K, all of the Dolby Products, QSC DCM's, DTS-6AD's, Sound Web units, and Kinoton Electronic Projectors.

I am running OS X and OS 9.2 on a dual boot 20 gig drive. I think I have about 128mb of RAM dedicated to VPC4. The thing works great, in fact so well that one of my colleagues switched over from a PC laptop to a Powerbook G3 because he liked it so well.

Unfortunately, for the iBooks they don't have the PC Card slot so you are stuck with USB and if you run into problems there is nothing else to fall back on. I would buy an iBook in a second if they had the PC Card slots. I like everything about them (size, weight, form factor, features, etc.) except that, but Apple has to keep their division between the Consumer and Professional lines. So after I get done recovering from the dent the G4/800DP made in my bank account I will be buying a TiBook for the field.

Hope you are still having good luck with the USB. And drop a line if you ever need help. Mac users have to stick together.

-David Miller
inov8tr@speakeasy.org

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-19-2001, 07:34 PM:

It's good to know that there's SOMEBODY else out there doing the Mac thing!

I just couldn't believe that there was nobody.

The Keyspan is doing well. I have had no problem with it. I just got another 256 MB of memory in the iBook. VPC is running perfectly now. (Before I had a problem with it running out of memory.)
I'm even using CCmail over the Airport connection.

I understand what you are saying about the PCI card. I have given it a little thought but honestly it doesn't bother me much. Except for connecting to the processors at work I don't think I'll ever need to hook up anything but a USB or a FireWire.

You're right about the Mac user thing. Keep spreading the word!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-20-2001, 08:04 PM:

...loyal Mac user since 1984...in fact I have personally only ever owned Macintoshes....just two an SE (upgraded to an SE/30) and an iMac DV SE....amazingly...since 1988, only two computers has sufficed for me...how many PCs have users gone through in that amount of time (mind you both units are still running and perfectly usable...only with the most recent of software is the SE/30 too slow. My little SE/30 is my favorite computer of all time, thus far. It emulates Windows too. Been doing dual monitors with it since the 80s, has a CD-ROM, multiple hard drives, 20Megs of RAM (and in the late 80s, that was a lot), two 3.5" floppies that do 400K, 800K and 1.4M (in either Dos or Mac formats). Oh and it is very portable and I have a Targus "MacPack" for it to be transported in.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"