Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: A strange Century Projector??????

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Posted by John Westlund (Member # 913) on 11-19-2001, 10:41 PM:

Does anyone know what the Century Model Number LCACSA means? I dont know if it means anything or not. Better yet, does anyone have a manual for this machine? Thanks in advance.
John

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 11-20-2001, 12:30 AM:

Good Question! I am not certain about the LCAC part, but the SA is the standard non-turreted, single shutter soundhead-driven Century machine, and a standard Century SA manual should suffice parts-wise.

Here's a translation to some of the Century 'alphabet soup' you might encounter:

EARLY PROJECTORS:
K('Kaplan'): The very first Century machine, very similar mechanically to a Standard Simplex.
C:Older model from early 40s, single shutter, straight gate, non-removeable trap assembly.
CC: Double Shutter version of the C
H: Curved-gate version of the C, also using an intermittent movement very much like the Century of today. usually 1950's vintage.
HH: Double Shutter version of the H
JJ: 35/70 Century machine, double shutters, water cooled.
VV: VistaVision (horizontal 35mm) machine.

With the exception of the JJ (which might still be manufactured today), the above are the vintage Century machines.

Later Century machines used a different system to identify the hardware:

S=Single shutter (or 'Standard')
M=Direct-drive
D=Double shutter (or 'Drive-In')
W=Water cooled gate
T=Lens turret

Examples of the varying models:
A: The basic standard Century machine we all know and love.
SA: Same machine, single shutter, no turret, air cooled.
SAW: Same as above except water cooled
MSA: Standard type 'SA' machine except utilizing 'direct drive' where the motor drives the picture head mainshaft rather than driving the soundhead.
DA: Double-shutter version of the SA
DAW: Water-cooled double-shutter.
SB: 'SA' machine with the optional CineFocus® film-flattener system utilizing a vacuum to suck the film against the gate.
TA: Turret-equipped standard Century machine.

I am sure Pat can add the other letters and their meanings.

-Aaron

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 11-20-2001, 12:41 AM:

Sounds like Lens Changer Aperture Changer conversion to an SA.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 11-20-2001, 03:06 AM:

I'll buy that...

-Aaron

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-20-2001, 05:50 AM:

When was the 'C' model discontinued? There still seem to be quite a few of these around. Also, are there different model designations for the small-lens-holder and large-lens-holder version of the 'C'?

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 11-20-2001, 10:53 AM:

Scott

According to the Century History in the Manuals Forum of Film-Tech, Century "C" production was from 1940 to 1962.

I am of the understanding that all the gears on the "C" are interchangeable with the current production "SA".

Contact Wolk and LaVezzi about parts. They are still being made and "C"s are still very much in service.

I have personally seen Century Cinemarama machines that have been converted back to a "C".

Aaron said that the flat trap "C" did not have a removable gate? Once again I have personally seen flat trap "C"s with removable gates.

Kelmar makes a retrofit kit to convert a single lense mount "C" to a turret with a different gate/trap assembly also provided with the kit. Mark G. has experience with this retrofit and has posted a picture of one he converted under another thread in Film-Tech. I understand that the conversion is not cheap! From what I gather Mark really likes it. I have asked others who say that it is not the highest quality item, but that it successfully does the job. I have no experience with it, but was interested in more info.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-20-2001, 12:02 PM:

Will said"Aaron said that the flat trap "C" did not have a removable gate? Once again I have personally seen flat trap "C"s with removable gates."
The century c did not have a removable gate.
THe trap door was removable but the back gate was held in with 3 bolts. The H was the same
The A serries introduced a sub assembly that was bolted in either as a watercooled jib or the aircooled heat sheild, and the trap assembly slid in on it.
Uusually if they were retrofitted into a C the image tended not to be that steady as they don't fit in the same position vertically in respect to the intermittent sprocket
As for the Kelmar turret on the century I have always been less than pleased with the results

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-20-2001, 01:13 PM:

Yes, The Kelmar Turrett retrofit kit is a great way to rescue an old machine and modernize it for use with short focal length lenses. I've personally done over 100 of them. Both Century C, SA, and Simplex X-L and never had a problem. The sideweave could be better but can be darn good if tweeked up properly. The cast iron Century C probably has the strongest mainframe of any US built projector. It is also a bastard to cut the front off of. After going through a half dozen blades on cast iron C's I ended up having a welder torch the fronts out for me. Keep in mind that you also need the installation alignment kit and the cutout template from Kelmar if you are installing one of these on any one of the three above machines.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 11-20-2001, 05:57 PM:

Gordon--

Maybe we have a communication mix up? I refer to the gate as the moveable portion of the gate/trap assembly and the trap as the stationary portion.

Mark

Your having a time cutting cast iron? Anyhow, cast materials, whatever they may be, can be hell on cutter blades, whether they be drills, lathe tools, end mills etc. The reason is that cast materials have a "skin" from casting, and this "skin" contains silica from the sand casting process. This is what is probably causing your problem. Be very careful about using a torch! Not only can you possibly warp the frame, but you may also change metalurigical properties. How do carbide toos work?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-20-2001, 06:04 PM:

The proper term for the front movable portion is trap door

I always found the Kelmar trap didn't line up all that well on the century C retrofit
The side weeve I found to be far more than I would of liked
Also a lot of lens had problem in the Kelmar Turrets hitting parts especially with short focal lengths

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-20-2001, 07:57 PM:

LCAC does indeed refer to the Lens Changer and Aperture Changer it was a bit of a contraption...in fact, the LCAC machine has it's badge mounted higher up on the casting and the area where the badge would have gone milled out to accept the lens change thingy. I don't think I have seen a working one in 20 years. All of the ones I have encountered were converted to regular SAs

To add to the naming convention...

B = Blower (Cinefocus) so you have your SB and DB varieties.

The SA is really mis-named it was referred to as the "new-A" when it came out so really it should have simply been called the "A" and the double shutter version the "AA" I'm sure the "A" designator was not used (nor "AA") since those models had already been taken by other projector manufacturers.

Moving on down...

On the early "SA"s...they didn't have the gibbed trap assy as they do now...they retained the "H" gate and trap but the rest of the machine looks and feels like an SA...the odd thing...the light shield looks like the SA light shield but has the asbestos heat shield as part of the light shield.

For an example of the early SA...see the Williamsburg theatre photos in the gallery...there is a good shot that shows the H style gates in genuine SA projectors (serial #150 and 151...which is read 50 and 51).

I have just "upgraded" them to current SA style gates and traps and recut the light shield to accept the curret trap bracket (gibbed).

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-20-2001, 09:09 PM:

While we're on the subject of gate and trap design--when did Simplex switch to flexible bands for the trap in the X-L? Over the summer, I ran a pair of older models that had curved traps similar to the Century H design, without the flexible bands.

Back to Century: has the trap design changed at all on the JJs? The only JJ that I'm familiar with is s/n 119 and has a trap that looks like a 35/70 version of the H model.

(Why do I always end up working with the weird stuff? I recently figured out that, of the 8 booths where I've been paid to run film, all but 2 of them have something bizarre about them.)

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-20-2001, 09:31 PM:

The original JJ had a 70mm styled H trap ( not suprising since th H was the 35mm machine they produced at the time)
The first JJ are here in toronto at the music hall (pictures in the warehouse) They actually started there lives as 55mm machines

Posted by Barry Hans (Member # 477) on 11-21-2001, 01:19 PM:

I rebuilt a Century with the designation " P ". It was a " C " with extra holes in the housing and a notch cut out on the top of the gear side door. The only thing I can come with is that it was made for use with a penthouse ( ? ). I can't recall where it ended up at but the mate is in a small town in southern MN.