Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 16mm at the drive-in? In 2001? You bet!

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Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 12-02-2001, 08:38 PM:

Check it out, the "5" in Oakville Ont. (near Toronto) is installing 16mm so that they can project old drive-in fare (Blob, Body Snatchers, etc.). Yes kids, 16mm at the drive-in in 2001!!!
When's the last time you've seen that? You can read about it here.....
http://www.5drivein.com/content/facilities.asp

PS-
By the way, this is a lovely setup in about as urban a setting as you canget. The picture below right on this page is of Screen 2, attached to the side of an old warehouse, with original screen at the far end. #3 was added this year, but not attached to the other side as that would face a metropolis of light, it's free-standing and perpendicular on the other side. 3 screens, 3 booths and I believe, 3 snack bars! Open most of the year, usually only closed for Jan-Feb,
located as it is in the Great White North (where it's still 50 degrees at night for goshsakes, is ski season ever coming?).

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-02-2001, 10:18 PM:

There used to be several driveins in northern ontario with a pair of hortson 16mm with peerless and corlight lamps on the back of them

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-02-2001, 10:41 PM:

16mm kicks 35mm's ass! I'd much rather watch 16mm than 35mm anyday! I'm still waiting for an IMAX drive in. But who wants to learn about whales or dirt at a drive in?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-02-2001, 11:21 PM:

16mm at a drive in? Wow, that must be some kind of "bright" film image. Do you suppose there will be any subtitles in Braille?

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 12-02-2001, 11:39 PM:

I've been running occasional 16mm shows at driveins since 1985 with my B & H 567 arc machines (Marc-350 arc lamp).

Posted by Neil Chue Hong (Member # 685) on 12-03-2001, 07:30 AM:

We do an annual outdoor "stroll-in" on 16mm every year.

Enclosed, large courtyard (with bar on one side ), 500W xenon in our Fumeo, big speakers and a three storey screen. No cars though.

Screenings have included: Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Jaws, The Evil Dead, and the Muppets Take Manhatten!

For the Evil Dead screening, we had the idea of making it more "atmospheric" by using a fog machine and lighting about 200 candles around the courtyard. Unfortunately, the wind was so strong it blew out all the candles at the start of the film, and all the fog ended up in the bar...

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 12-03-2001, 07:51 AM:

ok Guys I just got to say it.....How many of us took a date to a drive-in to watch the movie, I know I didn't or is it just me !!

Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 12-03-2001, 08:46 AM:

Somewhere in an old industry trade publication, dating back to the 40's or 50's, I once saw a reference to a long gone drive-in here in Maryland that ran 16mm. I can't recall the exact name or location of the drive-in (I'll have to see if I can find the information at home this evening), but I do know that it was long gone before I moved to Maryland in 1987. Hopefully 16mm wasn't the sole format the theatre ran, but rather another option they had available to them.

I understand that the Free Christian Drive-In Theatre near Columbus, Ohio runs only 16mm. I've not yet had a chance to visit and check out their booth set-up but a photo in a newspaper article I saw a few years back showed a guy operating what appeared to be a vintage RCA 16mm carbon arc machine. Since they show only specialized product I imagine they probably have more available to them on 16mm than they would on 35mm.

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 12-03-2001, 10:04 AM:

OK, I'm braced. Who is going to be the first to start a Super-8 drive-in?

Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 12-03-2001, 10:20 AM:

Jerry, I'm on the phone right now with a cinema equipment dealer to see if they can put a 5,000 watt xenon lamp on my little Bell and Howell Super 8mm portable...

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 12-03-2001, 11:32 AM:

The FREE CHRISTIAN DRIVE-IN was located on the west side of town in a vacant lot about 100 yards long by 50 wide. Booth was in a trailer. Showed lots of "end of the world" and "rapture" films. I think the last summer they ran was in 2000, after a few years off. Ran carbon-arc 16mm from an old projector with speakers on the roof of the trailer. Screen was small, and was not a professional installation.

It was run by Jimmy Rea, a former baseball player who became an evangelist and also ran an audio/video store. Bought lots of reel-to-reel equipment and audio equipment from him about 25 years ago. He started the drive-in as a personal ministry. Last few years, it was run by his son, Jimmy Rea, Jr. I think Junior is doing Christian video work full time...he might have been affiliated with Leroy Jenkins at one time.

Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 12-03-2001, 12:31 PM:

Mark, thanks for the update. I didn't realize that the Free Christian Drive-In had closed up shop. I guess that explains why I couldn't find much about it on the world wide web and also why my wife and I couldn't find it when we were visiting drive-in theatres throughout Ohio and Indiana last year. I was really curious about how their projection was set up and what kind of screen image they got.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 12-03-2001, 12:37 PM:

Hey, I just report the news.........

Why do you suppose that they are using 16mm to show these films?
My theory is that probably most 35mm theatrical versions were shredded wheras 16mm used to be marketed for "home use", hence that's
really all that's available?????

Randy, let me know, my super-8 awaits conversion!

Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 12-03-2001, 01:22 PM:

Dave, I'll let you know as soon as we've figured everything out. We're stuck on how to water cool the aperture. Once that's figured out you and I can share the distinction of having the only super 8 drive-ins in Canada and the U.S.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 12-03-2001, 01:23 PM:

Super-8... at the Drive-In, I hadn't even thought of that!!!

I wonder how many of my future patrons would be willing to watch reel after reel of my 1970's home Christmas Movies??

I think for now I'll just plan to install my vintage 35mm equipment and make provisions and plan ahead for digital conversion.

Don had asked about "watching movies" at the drive-in??? I remember about 6 years ago I was setup on a blind date by several friends of mine and we had all planned to go to the drive-in. We (the guys) thought it would be a nice "change" from the normal mega-plex date type of thing, and thought the girls would love it. Turns out, my date brought her 16 month old son with her. During the movies, my friends cars were parked next to us with the windows fogged over, whereas my car was the only one in the lot with the trunk popped, wipers going, hazard lights flashing, and the windows going up and down. My date thought it would be fun to put the baby in the drivers seat, while we sat in the back. I never did take her back to the drive-in after that!!

P.S. I noticed on another forum where our ol' buddy "Andrew" was inquiring about drive-in construction... God help us all!!!!

------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Nashville, Tennessee
(Drive-In Theatre - Start-Up)

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 12-03-2001, 02:10 PM:

"We're stuck on how to water cool the aperture. "

Has anyone ever tried cooling the beam by running it through a square jar filled with water? Now I'm beginning to wonder if the idea could work (destroying the film in the process of passing through the gate because of the immediate fading the dyes, but making it through the projector without melting).

I envision a combination of dichroic reflector, a couple of 45 degree dichroic mirrors, passing through a condenser lens filled with cold water, through a water-jacketed light pipe, and finally making its way to the tiny gate.

I'm thinking this would be a do-able project for the son of a theatre person that would blow away any other science fair project. That impossible dream may not be all that far off. Barry's home movies might just make the big time.

Once this is accomplished, I seem to remember that someone developed a 4mm movie system...

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 12-03-2001, 02:30 PM:

quote:
OK, I'm braced. Who is going to be the first to start a Super-8 drive-in?

Or, Jerry, who will take the ultimate dreaded step of projecting video onto a drive-in screen? In Huntsville, sometimes they have free movies at Big Spring Park downtown. One time, I was with a friend walking through the park and they were projecting a very large 4:3 image onto the side of a building (not even on a screen) for the movie, probably from a VHS machine. Both my friend and I were extremely saddened from seeing this.

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 12-03-2001, 03:27 PM:

Barry, based on the troubles adult, sane people are having building one (we_are_sane_aren't_we?

), I think he'll have some trouble! As far as digital, I can't see why if it will supposedly work on a 50foot screen indoors, that it won't on a 50 footer outdoors.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 12-03-2001, 04:19 PM:

Since my old Super-8 movies have no sound, I wonder how they would sync-up to Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon"??

I could start my own thread.. "The Dark Side of Christmas Past"

Evans, if I remember correctly, the now defunct Sumner County Drive-In at one time had a "special" pay-per-view thing at the drive-in. I think it was a boxing match, projected from the rear of a truck. There was a radio station involved for the promotion I think.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-03-2001, 10:33 PM:

Digital doesn't satisfactoraly fill 50' screen indoors yet so lets not ask it to deal with enviromental concers
In the days of the Pinewood Studio's tripple head rear screen systems they did pass the beem of light through two plates of heat absorbing glass with refrigerated water inbetween

Posted by Derek Maxwell (Member # 234) on 12-04-2001, 12:50 AM:

We ran portable 550 watt Eiki and Elmo projectors for all of October at the Kingman Drive-in here in the Columbus area and had as much light on the screen as their 4000 watt 35mm set-up. Most people would have no idea we were running 16mm. One weekend we ran 16mm scope which filled the screen top to bottom but is wider than 35mm scope so we overshot the screen on each side by a few feet. It was a great look and if you are running vintage films as we did, you can't find them anywhere except in 16mm.

------------------
http://www.drive-infilm.com

Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 12-04-2001, 09:33 AM:

Derek, I'm curious about using xenon 16mm portables at the Kingman Drive-In. Was this for shows open to the public with people still sitting in cars? If so, how did you handle sound?

By the way, does the Kingman still stand?

Posted by Derek Maxwell (Member # 234) on 12-04-2001, 10:59 AM:

Yes, it was open to the public as usual and we took the output of the projectors and went through a small mixer and into the regular sound system for the speakers and FM sound. Nobody could tell the difference in picture or sound from the 35mm. The Kingman is still standing but not sure how much longer.

------------------
http://www.drive-infilm.com

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-04-2001, 12:59 PM:

Jerry said: "Has anyone ever tried cooling the beam by running it through a square jar filled with water? Now I'm beginning to wonder if the idea could work"

Been there, done that! Some very early carbon arc lamphouses (Lumiere Brothers?) used a beaker of water as both a condenser lens and heat filter! Although pure water does absorb some infrared, adding a few percent copper sulfate makes it a very EFFICIENT infrared absorber. A "liquid filter" could be used as a heat filter for projection, perhaps recirculating the copper-sulfate doped water through a heat exchanger to keep the water cool.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 12-04-2001, 01:02 PM:

I keep reading this thread and I am trying to figure out what I am missing. I really thought this was a put on but you are all so serious. Therefore, I wall not ask Brad to move this to the "Joke Forum."

Why would you want to show 16mm or Super 8mm at a Drive-In. Is this a one time shot for a particular film? Is this to be a permanent installation?

I know that from 1966 to 1970 when we ran with the Norelco FP-16's
the largest Xenon Lamp we could use was a 500Watt.We had a throw
distance of 62 feet. The largest picture was 32 feet wide.This was eventually moved back to 28 feet as the picture at 32'wide showed too much grain.

Today's lenses are vastly improved from the one's we used back in the 20th Century. I will continue to monitor this thread to see what is developing. Where is the first 16mm scheduled to open.

Oh! and by the way if you open a 16mm theatre does that mean your largest popcorn is a 35mm small size?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-04-2001, 02:07 PM:

Joe said in a previous post....."16mm kicks 35mm's ass! I'd much rather watch 16mm than 35mm anyday! I'm still waiting for an IMAX drive in. But who wants to learn about whales or dirt at a drive in?"

I have yet to know anyone that actually "watches" any movie at a drive in....... If you do you'd be the first.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 12-04-2001, 02:14 PM:

Bob Maar said "I keep reading this thread and I am trying to figure out what I am missing. I really thought this was a put on but you are all so serious. Therefore, I will not ask Brad to move this to the "Joke Forum."

Bob, I guess we're being as serious as is possible for us Film-Techers!

I wouldn't want to run 16mm at a drive-in on a regular basis but I can imagine its infrequent use for certain specialty presentations on a smaller drive-in screen. However, I'd be surprised if the "5" Drive-In gets to use it very much. Most patrons are still going to be drawn in by current 35mm product and not something that's likely already on video. I can imagine 16mm presentations of older genre product during antique car club events, film festivals, etc.

By the way, I'm still working on the Super 8mm drive-in concept that Jerry suggested. I'm working on a design for a Super 8mm platter system. Anybody know where I can get teeny tiny rollers and LOTS of Super 8 leader? Oops...I think I've finally gone over the edge!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-04-2001, 02:31 PM:

Randy, Super 8 HAS been ran at a drive in before! Well, sort of. A friend of mine back in college took his souped up Eumig 926 and a reel of film to a closed down drive in. He hooked up a portable generator to power it and waited there for 2 specific people to show up. When they did, he gave them the alotted time (5 minutes or something like that) and hit the screen with what turned out to be the guy's proposal for marriage.

I didn't see it and I believe it was a silent film with spliced in dialogue slates, but I do remember my friend saying he was able to fill between 1/4 of the screen's size, even though the image was dark. But has it been done? Technically, yes it has. If anyone wants to do that sort of thing nowadays, I've got the old Beaulieu 708EL and 2K Christie lamphouse setup with a mini "reel to reel" type of platter that could probably pull it off and look decent. The humorous thing about it is that the platter is a requirement for even a one minute film and not just an option for longer films, as the film must exit out the front of the projector and to the side because the lamphouse is in the way of the normal takeup arm.

The Super 8mm guys meet here: http://8mmforum.film-tech.com

Posted by Derek Maxwell (Member # 234) on 12-04-2001, 02:36 PM:

I just wanted to add that we were running right out of the original Kingman projection booth at a 275 ft. throw and the big screen and with the regular 2" lens the machine came with, we were able to fill the screen top to bottom and was as bright as their regular equipment. Of coarse I wouldn't try this with older projection equipment cause the newer machines have much more light output thanks to the switching supply.

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http://www.drive-infilm.com

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 12-04-2001, 02:40 PM:

Randy, Thanks for the heads up explanation. There is a company in New Jersey that made small rollers for 16mm and 8mm at one time. The company was called Bergen-Expo and they were located in Clifton. The numbers in my book are no longer correct. I havn't called them since the early 70's. I know that Rangertone in Belleville NJ use to make 16mm Dubbers. Speak with George Zizalli at 973 751-6833. If he doesn't have them he most likely can tell you where to go.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 12-04-2001, 03:41 PM:

AFAIK, the 16mm is only a "once a month in summer" type of thing, possibly on a slow night mid-week. So I'm told, the operator of this drive-in once had many indoors and outdoors (and way back when were even the largest DISTRIBUTOR in Canada). They kept this one going for the love of it, and suddenly found themselves the "last one standing" in Greater Toronto, and obviously very profitable. They've undergone a dazzling renovation, and I guess with a captive audience of 3million or so, running old B/W schlock can draw (or maybe it's just for fun).

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 12-04-2001, 06:10 PM:

There was a guy here in the late seventies who took a 16mm film called 'Northern Safari' around the country. He would set up his sixteen wherever he went...hard tops or drive ins.

We had it at our D.I. for three nights. He ran it out of the back of his Landrover from about the third row and ran cabling back to the booth.

It was mightily dark, but then...he had a pretty darn big screen to try and fill.