Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Film Guard, I'm not satisfied.

This is topic Film Guard, I'm not satisfied. in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 12-18-2001, 03:12 PM:

It is a long time that I would write this post. Few months ago I bought, for my curiosity only, a bottle of Film Guard. I pay it with my own money.
Ok, I start using the Filmguard just on Dolby trailers that was in not good condition. Since I don't have any cleaner (I clean the film manually each week) I put it on the film manually. The results were great, the dirty on the oldest trailer was gone almost totally.
However from the beginning I noted a problem using FilmGuard: If a kelmar cleaner (or similar) was not present to put filmguard at each show I will have bubble of FilmGuard on the print that can be seen on brightest scenes.
I have tried to put more or less filmguard to the print but every time the results was the same: good the first projection, but then the problem will come up slowly.
My bottle of filmguard has, unfortunately, gone on my car's seat (the bottle was in my car and the vibrations has caused the bottle to open itself...

). Since I cannot put more filmguard on my trailers, I had to clean them from Filmguard completely because the visual results was unacceptable for me.

If I should give a comment about filmguard I sould say "use it only with a kelmar cleaner". I'd say that manually it is useless.

Any opinion?

I'm sorry Brad, this is my experience!

Bye
Antonio

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-18-2001, 03:40 PM:

This is why it is very clearly noted in the instructions that a little bit goes a long way. Know how when the floor staff makes a gallon jug of degreaser in their chemical closet? They take one tiny capful of the solution and mix it with one gallon of water. Consider FilmGuard the same thing. One quart bottle of FilmGuard will clean a LOT more film than a gallon of any other film cleaner. I find it virtually impossible to hand clean a print and not oversaturate it. This is why I have never recommended cleaning films by hand and always warned people who have cleaned in this manner. Also, cleaning by hand will never produce the same quality results that a film cleaning machine will.

I think your problem stemmed from the fact that applying FilmGuard manually to a print with cloths and a rewind bench already over-applies it, but when you go back each week and keep re-cleaning it, you are oversaturating the print to a point beyond belief. You shouldn't even use a single ounce for a 2 hour movie. I'll bet you went through a substantial amount of that bottle just cleaning those trailers. You said you achieved great results right after you hand cleaned your Dolby snipes, but that as each week went on you started to see visible "bubbles" on screen. This is simply what happens when the product is substantially overapplied.

Remember with any product, there always comes a point where the recommended amount works wonders, but that does not mean that overdoing the directions 5 times over will benefit 5 times as much.

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 12-19-2001, 03:06 PM:

Brad,

I read your instruction and I saw what was the result of oversaturate the print (the trailers started jumping).
Since I wanted to FG only trailers (because I know that cleaning an entire prints without applying too much filmguard is not possible) I put FG on a cloth, clean the print, and then clean the print many times with a clean cloth (without filmguard).
I had to remove completely filmguard from the trailers to have them "working".
However, now that I've filmguarded my car, i will noe have chanches to test again...

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 12-21-2001, 02:26 PM:

My own experience with film-guard overapplication goes as follows.

Projectionist opens bottle of film guard to POUR onto kelmar film cleaner. Mind you the bottle is a SPRAY BOTTLE intended for use in and of itself to be the applicator. OK NOW, he places the now OPEN bottle of film guard onto THE PRINT ITSELF whilst on the platter. FORGETS ITS THERE, starts the movie, and applies an entire quart to the print and platter.

Im out of film guard.

Dave

ALso we ran as a test the film tech pads through without film guard on a non film guarded print. It took off an incredible amount of dirt in just one run, and didnt damage the print. Brad these things are incredible.

Dave

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 12-21-2001, 02:29 PM:

ALso brad, you should market pre soaked pads in a baggie, just rip one open and pop it on.

Dave

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 12-21-2001, 03:28 PM:

I finally have a good report on Film-Guard. Josh and I were talking about it last night. Josh tried some FG on an old 8mm crusty print, and the difference was night to day.

The owner of the radio station I am also working at said he has a whole bunch of 8mm home movies, and is afraid to have them transferred to DVD or VHS because the films are so brittle. I asked the owner to bring a scrap reel in, because I have a "chemical" that might save some of that stuff.

If he brings a reel in today, I'll take it over tho the theater and use FG on it, just to see if it helps. I'll post the results in this tread when I find out.

Grrrrr...The owner didn't bring a scrap reel today

Paul

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 12-21-2001, 05:57 PM:

Antonio
Seriously, you need to give this stuff a fair chance. Apply it with a film cleaner like it supposed to be and you will change your mind. I wouldn't run film without it

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 12-21-2001, 06:49 PM:

If you are applying it by hand you should only have to do it once. Weekly is just too much. I think you drowned it.

Please apply 'mouth to mouth' to all your prints.

Nothing will alter my opinion of this product. Quite simply it is the finest thing since 'talkies'. I know this for a fact as Jack L. Warner has emailed me from heaven and has said it will never last.

See? It MUST be good.

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 12-21-2001, 09:30 PM:

Paul, a lot of the people who think their 8mm film is brittle are blaming breaks in the projector on the film when the culprit is the projector. These home projectors get no maintenence and after a few years the cams gum up, the pull down claw is messed up, the gate pressure is off, and the film path is loaded with crud.

The last time I cleaned my old dual 8 machine and put a drop or two of light machine oil on the cams it quieted down to a nice purr and completely stopped tearing up film. Filmguard may help get the film through the pressure gate, but a good cleaning and adjusting will be needed to stop all film damage. My unit was very easy to clean and lube. I haven't poked around inside my Kodak Super 8 sound projector in a while and I need to clean it or sell it or both. All my self-applied mag stripe is in poor condition anyway.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 12-21-2001, 11:24 PM:

Jerry, this is very true. I also sent you an email.