Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: A minor point on screen size, but interesting anyway....

This is topic A minor point on screen size, but interesting anyway.... in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002896

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-19-2001, 07:05 AM:

Recently, we built a theater near another competitor's (older) theater. To get people to come to our theater, we advertise several newer features, one of which is: "We have Wall to Wall Screens!"

A customer came in yesterday, and started complaining that we were "blocking" the picture. After talking to him for awhile, I got what he meant: When we run 'scope, we do indeed have a screen that goes 42ft, wall to wall (except for 22 inches of masking material bunched up at sides.)

However, when we run flat, it's not wall to wall, as we have adjustable side masking.

Are we misleading in our advertising? I think not, but could someone make a case of it?

Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 12-19-2001, 07:11 AM:

Why advertise "wall to wall" in the first place?
You should advertise "widescreen not shortscreen."

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 12-19-2001, 09:20 AM:

"Are we misleading in our advertising? I think not, but could someone make a case of it?"

No!
The screen stays the same just the picture on it changes.
You always have "wall to wall screens"

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 12-19-2001, 10:33 AM:

I agree with Greg. You do have "wall to wall" screens all the time. Only the aspect ratio of the film changes and that is a decision by the film directors and beyond your control.

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 12-19-2001, 10:45 AM:

There's an awful practice in the UK of 'wall to wall' screens for flat and scope with movable top masking only!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-19-2001, 11:11 AM:

I like James' suggestion of "WideScreen, not ShortScreen":
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/notes/spring2001/pytalk.shtml

And yes, your screen itself is nearly "wall-to-wall", so your ads are truthful.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-19-2001, 12:11 PM:

"Wall to wall" is in there with cupholders, digital sound or image for the cinema owner. One multiplex in Miami boasted "wall to wall" but then again they averaged 15 - 18 feet ( 4.57 - 5.49 meter ) and suffered greatly in comparison to a competitor across the street with 30 - 50% larger non wall to wall setup ( they are now closed ). Most of the cinemas we build use top and or top/bottom masking since they demand wall to wall.....and we usually have to fight them in some situations not to overdue it to the customer's discomfort such as watching an "35mm almostIMAX" picture in a 35 foot ( 10.67 meter ) room.
Richard Fowler....cutting plates at an 11 plex today........
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 12-25-2001, 09:08 PM:

What is the big deal about "wall to wall" screens. Who cares how big the room is, as long as the scree is big!

Although you're techically not lying, I can understand why a customer could feel deceived. At my last theater that had 4 large side masking screens and 8 smaller top-masking screens, I never liked watching flat movies on the large screen because of the side masking. I just felt weird. Of course I never like watching scope movies on the smaller screens.

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 12-25-2001, 09:55 PM:

I really do not like to say wall to wall or floor to ceiling. I like to go to a theatre that shows the film in the proper aspect ratio. It isn't that hard to do and it is the proper thing to do.

After all film done right is film shown right.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-25-2001, 10:40 PM:

Wall-to-wall screens is one of those meaningless advertisements that is supposed to imply LARGE.

A "wall-to-wall" screen in a 20 foot wide room isn't so large as compared to a typical front-end in a 70 foot wide room.

Personally, I HATE wall-to-wall screens. The only way to truely claim wall-to-wall is to have wrap-around screens that just fit inside the walls...anything less is not, in fact, "wall-to-wall". I can't think of many (if any) theatres that really fit that description.

Most exhibitors have loss any sense of presentation class. Side maskings needn't seem so intrusive. A well designed front-end has curtains (first of all, and stacking room for them will preclude w-t-w screens). The side maskings should only have a foot or two of velour for "masking" (about the same width as the top and bottom. Then there should be a colored fabric (preferably sonically transmissive) that will accent the theatre decour but in a darker shade than the side walls predominate (in-case you have a multi-tone side wall). The curtain should be yet darker and more rich. This way, when the front-end is opened to FLAT...there is a tierd out approach...screen, black, color side masking, stacked-curtain. This avoids the little white rectangle in the sea of BLACK masking everywhere. Naturally, the skirt, valance and legs should all be properly colored.

For all you whining slide advertisement showers out there...slides don't preclude curtains nor curtain warmer lights. Install electric roll-down screens formated for your slides...Show the slides like they were ment to be there not something just thrown out to occupy dead screen time. Most of the theatres I go into have their slides so piss-poorly displayed that advertisers should demand a discount. On the "proper" screens, they can be bright and sharp and be added to the show rather than detracting from it.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 12-25-2001, 11:38 PM:

Steve said: "Personally, I HATE wall-to-wall screens. The only way to truely claim wall-to-wall is to have wrap-around screens that just fit inside the walls...anything less is not, in fact, "wall-to-wall". I can't think of many (if any) theatres that really fit that description."

I don't understand what you're getting at. If the screen goes from wall to the other so that it is the entire width of the room, rather than having masking or an exit door or something else between the edge of the screen and the wall, isn't it a "wall-to-wall" screen?

I agree with Bob. It's not the size that counts, it's how you use it! Give me the proper aspect ratio.

What wrong with showing slides on the movie screen, as longs as they are crisp, clear, bright, in focus, and properly aligned? I don't think it requires a special screen to do that.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-26-2001, 12:02 AM:

Ken,

You get it...but most claimed "wall-to-wall" screens do have some sort of border around them, including the masking stacked up (when showing scope).

I haven't been to a theatre that shows slides BRIGHT and crips on the movie's screen...they are normally just thrown up there. Since the slide's aspect ratio is not that of either of the popular formats, it is never dressed out properly. That is the problem I have with it. It is very poor showmanship. If you are going to advertise, HIGHLITE it and make it look good. Have a proper screen for it. The curtains should remain closed for the slide show.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 12-26-2001, 12:06 AM:

A single-screen theater I used to work at that is now gone had curtains which had to be disabled when they added the slide presentation. Along with it, we had to turn off the stage lights because they drowned out the screen when on, so a rather nice-looking theater suddenly looked like a dark pit. I was able to have the curtains close and the stage lights come up after the end of the last showing of the night, but it was still pretty depressing seeing the curtains wasted on slides, which I personally feel are tacky and insulting (I would not want to pay to look at advertising, and even the 'filler' stuff like movie trivia tends to be ugly; certainly not worth ditching the curtains for.)
Since I've never paid the bills for a theater I can't say they *should* get rid of slides if they are making a significant amount of money from them and not losing customers, but there is such a thing as going too far. I felt like I was giving the finger to customers when they walked in and saw a half-dark auditorium with the screen turned into an indoor billboard instead of the lights and curtains that had been there before. I do think it would have been more confusing, however, if they had kept the curtains closed and dropped down a different screen to show the slides on- if you ARE going to show slides, they should be on the same screen as the movie. The only thing that kept me from going completely insane was considering the slides as part of the presentation itself; pre-trailer material if you will.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-26-2001, 12:19 PM:

The thing that got me (when the customer complained about "blocking" the picture) was that he had that look in his eyes; "You are screwing me. I can't prove it, but I know either something's broken or you are just playing "bait and switch" with me." I wanted to prove to the guy we weren't screwing him, but how do you do that in the 2 mins before his film starts to someone outside the industry?

Saying "Widescreen" does not automatically convey the idea that your theater has the largest screen possible. You can't have a long-winded explanation about aspect ratios and screen sizes in your advertising. Telling the customer that the screen stays the same size- just the picture changes, while true, ... I think it would just sound like an excuse to a customer.

Regarding showing slides at theaters with curtains and footlights; We had a similar problem, we wanted to have slide advertising look nice at these theaters. So we made boxes with a microcontroller in them to automatcally close the curtain and bring up the stage lights, wait a bit, then start the projector. We have since closed most of those theaters, but still have the control boxes. If anyone would like to have them, let me know- we aren't using them anymore. They were meant to hook into a MAXI 10 automation, but could be made to work with anything.