Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: PRO-35 leaking oil on inside?

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Posted by Josh Mitoska (Member # 1086) on 12-26-2001, 02:02 AM:

Hey, can anyone give me some advice, I have a ballantyne pro-35 and it's making my film quite oily, there is oil leaking on the threading side somewhere around the intermittent I think. Has anyone had this happen? What can be done to fix it?

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 12-26-2001, 07:00 AM:

The oil seals are shot. Ballantynes are well known to leak from the oil seals on the top and bottom sprocket shafts and on the shutter shaft. When changing them be ready to get yourself VERY dirty.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-26-2001, 10:20 AM:

In actuality this machine is due for a general overhaul if it has this problem. There are also many "O" rings that seal bearing caps and cups and these should also be replaced due to compression set. This necessitates a complete tear down to accomplish properly. Be sure to use a bit of silicon grease on the new "O" rings when you re-assemble the machine. New seals are also a must when doing this. I think there is a total of 6 of them counting the one on the framing shaft. I once slid into a Pro 35 that had a bad lower shaft seal. It had belched its entire contents of oil onto the floor.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Paul Harnden (Member # 1034) on 12-26-2001, 01:53 PM:

Mark and Ken are right, it's your oil seals. Had the very same problem and ended up with a virtual pond in the base. Get yourself ready for a lot of work and a lot of mess.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 12-27-2001, 12:25 AM:

They don't call them 'Ballantyne Valdez' for nothing...

-Aaron

Posted by Josh Mitoska (Member # 1086) on 12-27-2001, 12:39 AM:

Yeah, that sounds great. And I just had a ball replacing that stupid assembly with the star wheel shaft and cam shaft, and shutter gears last week in one of my other Ballantynes. It took me for ever to figure out how to get the shutter off, I just was figuring that there had to be a easier way than take off that back plate.

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 10-29-2006, 04:36 PM:

It has been 1767 days since the last post.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 10-29-2006, 04:36 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Be sure to use a bit of silicon grease on the new "O" rings when you re-assemble the machine.

Please elaborate, Mark. I would think you'd want every surface absolutely dry.

I have some Pro-35s in one of the theatres I'm servicing. I will have to do some seal replacements very soon in one machine. (My only problem is, I can't really tell where the leak is at the moment! [Eek!]

)

By the way, what is the proper order to disassemble this machine? Intermittent first, shutter shaft, vertical shaft? What are some of your tips/tricks for proper realignment of everything on reassembly? For example, on a Century, I always leave the vertical shaft bearing retainer screws slightly loose. I very carefully tighten the screws with the motor running, so the shaft "aligns" itself. Then I stop the motor, put some muscle behind those screws, install the intermittent and shutter shaft.

What are some of your Pro-35 methods?

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 10-29-2006, 11:51 PM:

I have a theatre I am going to tomorrow night & terar & replace any o-ring & oil seal on a Pro-35...I take everything off, lens changer, top plate, everything...I take the head to the woerk table & take everything out, clean it all, replace all seals & o-rings & put back together...the whole process takes 5-hours to tear down, clean & put back together...my main oil leak is the vertical shaft assy. on the bottom of the machine....but since I am tearing it down, I will change all o-rings & seals since I have it on the bench....

Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 10-30-2006, 04:31 AM:

A little off topic (a different machine) but how do you know when a Century SA has enough oil in the intermittent? I have been told to fill it to half-full (when looking at the sight-glass) while running, but it seems to spit oil and leak a small amount when I do. I just want to make sure we have enough oil, but not too much.

We don't have a fill line, and it always looks full at rest, but then it looks empty while it's running.

I've also been told that you don't need to change the oil in it, but have done it anyway. I will admit the oil looks clean and has no signs of contamination, but it seems weird that it would never need changing...

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-30-2006, 07:39 AM:

Don-Tim,

This is really a shop job, not sometimg I reccomend doing in the field.... if it all runs well when you're done you're lucky or you can get into some deep do-do if you make a mistake and then you have to slap your customer with a whooping labor bill and he'll be unhappy! We keep an R-A mechanism on the shelf without any other parts mounted to it so the job in the field can be done in a couple of hours. Then that one gets rebuilt in the shop and the customer charged for T&M for his unit. We guarantee that rebuilt R/A mechanism for a year and it has been previously run in and leak tested in the shop and is ready to go.

Either way...
Be sure to get some O-Ring lube and coat the O-Rings with it before re-assembly. It is available at most bearing supply houses. Otherwise you scuff the O-rings when you re-insert the bearing cap and you will still have a leak.

To disassemble.... 1. Movement, 2. Sprocket and shutter shafts, 3. all the other outer mounted crap and framing mechanism, etc. can now be removed for cleaning, seal and O-ring replacement... inspect the C/O solonoid mounting plate for cracks at the bend point!!! And lastly the vert. shaft. Screw in some long 10/32(I think) screws into the top bearing cap and you can use a bar under these screws to pull it up and out. Lifting the shaft out is difficult and turning the machine over to drop it out by yourself is dangerous for the shaft since its not hardened. But can be done very carefully by two people. One person flips the casting over while the other one hold it in place with a finger and then lets it slowly drop out and guides it to keep it from getting dinged.

Also carry a small arbor press and a complete socket set with you to remove and press in the new seals, they can be had at Harbor Freight and other places for just over 20.00. This makes life ALOT easier. You might also want to have a new shutter bearing outer end cap with. The seal is a mother to get out of the original one piece old style cap, machining it out on a lathe is the easiest way to remove it! The new cap is two piece allowing the seal to be pressed right out just like the sprocket shaft caps. Also.... mark the positions of the vert. shaft bearing caps and both shutter shaft caps. These 4 caps are eccentric and marking them will allow replacement of them back in the exact same position and you have the same gear mesh as you did to start with. Not marking these will add considerable time to the repair while you try to adjust each one the same amount to get things meshed correctly.... [Eek!]

. KEep in mind that none of the steel parts are hardened like in a Simplex... The Ballantyne is patterened after the Brenkert... all soft metal and non-hardened star and cam! A slight bump when removing the vert. shaft can ding a tooth or two. Treat it all very gently.Inspect all the teeth on the vert. shaft for wear or damage very carefully as well as the teeth on the lower sprocket shaft for wear..the lower gear drives the sound head. I always install a new shutter drive gear irregardless of what the original looks like just because its nylon and a big job to replace later on when it fails. You can also replace the nylon intermittent gear at the same time... that tiny gear drives the whole machine!

Overall Ballantynes are ok if you have operators that know how to run film. If its a bunch of kids then its one of the worst machines you can have. A simple film jam can bend the star radius and then you have an expensive movement rebuild on your hands, even the newer webbed star is just as susceptable to this problem as the original star. I would never install a Pro 35 in any new build today...

quote: Anslem Rayburn
A little off topic (a different machine) but how do you know when a Century SA has enough oil in the intermittent? I have been told to fill it to half-full (when looking at the sight-glass) while running, but it seems to spit oil and leak a small amount when I do. I just want to make sure we have enough oil, but not too much.

Anslem,

Half way up the window at stand still... or not running. Any excess oil will just flow out the breather hole on the back of the movement. That breather hole is sometimes a more convenient place to fill them from too. Just depends on the tip of your oiler.

Mark

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 10-30-2006, 05:03 PM:

Thanks, Mark and Don! [Smile]

I just KNEW this was going to be a major overhaul deal. [Frown]

Mark, is the arbor press you're talking about a table-top unit, about 12" high?

So, does anyone have a throw-away Pro-35 I can have? [Razz]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-30-2006, 07:02 PM:

Tim,

You will need a #1 arbor press, it is about a foot tall. A spare head(just the mechanism in its casting) is the best way to attack these machines on site. I have had machines with bent vert. shafts in them too!

Mark

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-30-2006, 07:11 PM:

quote:
I have had machines with bent vert. shafts in them too!

Yeah me too, Mark!

BTW: Most ALL the leaks I've encountered in the Ballantyne heads were due to porus castings.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 10-30-2006, 08:52 PM:

Required consumable products for Pro-35

I always enjoyed going to the store for those. [Razz]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-30-2006, 08:58 PM:

Oh my Adam... What's really funny is your lame excuse of WHY you purchased those Maxi Pads w/Super Protection...

We that know you, and personally have met you, know better... [Razz]

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 10-30-2006, 09:24 PM:

You guys! Haha! I guess I'll have to watch what I say re: these things anymore, since I'm working for Ballantyne. [Wink]

Roger the leaky castings, Phil. I'm going to give it a really good look tomorrow. Maybe I can dye the oil to definitively spot the source of the leak(s). [beer]

Thanks again for all the good info, Mark. You are truly da man! [thumbsup]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-31-2006, 10:27 AM:

and what is the Monistat for I thought that projector oil was too acidic for that to happen [Smile]