This is topic Where's the quality? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-29-2001, 02:20 AM:
Referencing some recent threads "DVD vs. The Cinema"(Yak), "Last movie you saw"(FHF) and "Unfortunate evidence of film done wrong"(FHF), I think most people here are seeing a real decline recently of presentation quality. Films are getting scratched opening week, dirt plagues most presentations, blown speakers are being ignored, equipment is not being maintained and on and on. Theaters that used to be GREAT are slipping, the new ones being built are going up equipped half-assed and no one in a position of making necessary decisions gives a crap. Is ScreenCheck completely dead? Is NATO or TAP not interested in providing some push for exhibitors to get themselves in gear? (And I'm not talking about issuing some fluff newsletter with a cheezy pep talk.) Even THX is letting the sound quality of their theaters turn to shit and doesn't care about maintaining standards (at least locally). Movies are having ridiculous amounts of prints struck nowadays and even big "event" films are exhausting themselves in opening week. What is left?
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-29-2001, 03:03 AM:
What is this "quality" thing that you speak of? I don't know what it is, but it sounds overrated. Surely it has no effect whatsoever on the bottom line.Or maybe repeat business is a good thing? That is an interesting idea! Customers coming back again and again and showing their support by continuing to spend their hard earned dollars at the theater. This concept is radical, but maybe, just maybe it has a chance.
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-29-2001, 06:44 AM:
Brad asked: "Is ScreenCheck completely dead?"The Kodak ScreenCheck program is alive and well, but the emphasis has changed. Theatre circuits were unwilling or unable to pay for routine evaluations of presentation quality, but were interested in Projection Training programs, and in Cinema Evaluation on a per-site basis. Most recently, ScreenCheck has been used by motion picture studios that need projection equipment at high-end theatre locations throughout the US checked and optimized before their movies premiere to the public:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/screencheck/
------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 12-29-2001, 02:25 PM:
Joe,Yes, it is true. People are continuing to come to the cinema. Sometimes you'll see people that last time said that will never come to that cinema...
However, since we are talking with numbers...
At my theater, in Italy, we have the "Giornale dello spettacolo", a monthly magazine where you can find some news about the film world.
There is also the list of city, classified for number of customers.
Some time ago I wrote in this forum about Multiplex ARCADIA, that is the best Italy's theater (I would say World's). Its owner has an incredible care in presentation's quality.
So, with few simple calculation I had the number of customers for day for screen in all major city.
Since Arcadia is the only theater in its city, the values of that city can be considered about Arcadia itself.
The result was that in all cities the average number of customers for screen for day is between 150 to 250. No more not even in bigger city.
Melzo (the city where Arcadia is placed) has an average of 496 customers for day, for screen.
During these day, Arcadia is the first theater in Italy showing "Atlantis" in Digital and from 1st January it will start with Imax 8/70.
But with standard 35/70mm projections Arcadia gives to its customers the best possible quality.
And, you saw, it has a results with numbers.
So I can't understand owner that are making a "film done bad".
Also, let me to express my disappointment with THX. I knew that at least in USA they care their installation.
Bye
Antonio
Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 12-29-2001, 02:29 PM:
I'm curious as to whether any large exhibitors, either the major chains or smaller regional circuits, have their own quality control programs regarding film presentation? Sort of an internal ScreenCheck program if you will. Has anybody ever heard of an exhibition circuit having employees, exclusive of their field techs, that go out to inspect equipment and to make surprise visits to check the quality of presentation?
Posted by Paul Cassidy (Member # 951) on 12-29-2001, 04:04 PM:
It has been really disappointing that the Latest Complex to open in Auckland is the cheapest equipped of them all, seems to have scrimped on everything , Recycled seating (recovered) from the previous closed Plex ,painted concrete flooring (increasing Reverb.)sound leaking from other Auditoriums, cheap looking light bulbs sticking out of the walls ,altogther a box with 4 walls and a Screen, if this is what Westfeild and Village cinema think is going to be the cinema of tomorrow ,well the does not seem to be much future ,5k or Miles approx. down the road is the Westgate 8 which is top notch, with an ambience of the theatres of old (if they had Curtains you would think you were in a 50s cinema) they would actually suit Water fall Curtains , Staff are great and presentation the Best (Real projectionist Trains staff) and the best is that this cinema is not part of the Westfield grasp or "Stick me on top of the Mall" syndrome.
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 12-30-2001, 02:45 PM:
Paul, that's exactly what is needed. The ambiance of old. Sure, we'd all love to have an old single mom 'n pop, but most are gone.
Conglomorates don't HAVE to be lousy, they just often are. I blame distribution practices. Imagine how it COULD be. Imagine if films were available to ALL exhibitors. It would be like restaurant chains, they've all got food, so which do you pick? Cleanest, best service, atmosphere, product? Of course. We went to a "Boston Pizza" the other night. Big chain "strip-mall" restaurant. BUT, I couldn't fault the food, service, anything. They'd obviously spent some money to make it feel like a "real" restaurant with the decor. The main difference is that there was an "owner" (oh, sure I know, he's highly leveraged and will never "own" any of it, but has a tremendous upside if "his" restaurant succeeds). You could see him walking the floor, making sure all was well, picking up messes, getting the "presentation" right.
The point is that there are dozens of pizza joints I could've gone to. Theatres haven't had this kind of competition. But they'd better realize that their customers are starting to believe that there is an alternative, wait for the DVD. Maybe it's time they "franchised" out each location, made it worth somebody's while to be
flawless. Meanwhile, find me at the mom 'n pop!
(PS- Think about it, you KNOW what kind of quality you're going to get at the Pizza Hut, Holiday Inn, that's why you either go there or not. That's the raison d'etre for any chain. Why in hell should it be any different for theatre chains?)
Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 12-30-2001, 03:05 PM:
At the local Regal 10 plex I have seen a guy that is probably in his late 50s or early 60s. He comes in every now and then and actually looks at the screen. He watches for a moment or two and then leaves. I've spoke with him a few times and he doesn't say much to put down they way things are done there, but I get the sense that he may be the one that tries to give guidance to the rest of the crew. That got me to thinking (along with this thread) that maybe there are a lot of retired projectionists that would like to be involved with theaters as advisors. I know there's a program for small businesses, where the retired experieneced people will come and give you advice on how to set up and run your business. I can't remember the name of the organization, but maybe there something like that that would apply to theaters. Maybe a retired "coach" on staff, to teach the art of putting on a decent presentation. I bet there's a lot of retired guys that would love to get out of the house and help out where their experience coud be used and appreciated. Hopefully their valuable experience could be past on before it's too late.------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut http://www.muellersatomics.com/
Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 12-30-2001, 03:27 PM:
The problem with declining presentation quality lies solely on the producers, studios, and distributors themselves. They demand a 90/10 split first two weeks then flood the market with prints. Then they advertise the hell out of it for then only, then after that, you are stuck with a print that makes nothing. You get nothing for it. You usually take a loss on the prints themselves and hope to hell that the public will actually stop sneaking in thier own damn popcorn and stop trying to put you out of business.
Damn popcorn.
Dave
Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 12-30-2001, 03:39 PM:
Greg, I think it is called SCORE. It sounds like a great idea.While I don't think the entire problem lies out of theatre owners hands, I do think the last minute shipping of tons of quickly made prints is one of the more STUPID ideas ever to grace the planet.
90/10 over nut is a problem, but demands for multiple screens is a bigger one, IMO. If only a state could legislate that only a single print of a film could show in a multiplex, you would see the return of "legs" and a revival of the big screens we all fondly remember.
The megaplex idea was doomed from the start, and has killed a lot of exhibitors. My guess is that twelve screens is the outside limit for theatres designed to make money for the owner and not the distributor.
Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 12-30-2001, 04:38 PM:
yea what happened to the traditional 12:1 slope in older theaters...If I want stadium seating ill go watch a football game. Part of the nostalgia used was to look up and to see that bigger than life image. Rory
Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 12-30-2001, 04:57 PM:
I used to be service the entire Chain of a San Diego based all THX theater chain and Id say we were the formost on presentation. We went to the extreme of training every projectionist and holding regular all-day projection seminars <classroom like environment> for projectionists and managers too. The maintenace end of the chain was top notch as well. Id call it more prevantative maintanence. We managed to perform bi annual oil changes on all the projectors....A and b chained bi annually. The bulbs were changed in the most organized and efficient matter....and problems were kept to a minimum. I left at the nick of time prior to a corporate take over and some needless unplanned expansion investment flops and that theater chained fell victim to accute multiplex"itus". Presentation is where you want it to be. If you dont see quality...its the corporoate world at work.... riddled with beauracracyand the such. You must combat the big giant or otherwise everything is futile. That theater chain I worked for had the honest to goodness best looking screen in southern california. A 50 foot wide screen with a 3 bladed shutter and a 3.5k bulb pumping through. The picture looked liquid at all times. Now its got a 4 foot tear and the picture is dark probably due to the 3k bulb in there now. I would have at least changed the shutter back to a two balded one. JEES
So, I must agree with Brad on this one. Quality has gone down..indeed. Those who are still powering through like the Egyptian theater in hollywood, the DGA and the Universal Studios City walk theater good job! but for the most part if you want to catch a flick at the local theater.......stay home and wait for the DVD! RORY
Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 12-31-2001, 08:52 AM:
I'm surprised that the film companies, who invest so much money into production and distribution of their product, don't exert more pressure on the exhibition end of the biz to make sure the product looks as good as possible on screen. Even if they are looking to digital projection to eventually solve all their presentation woes, you would think that they would in the meantime be pushing a little harder the exhibitors who feel that presentation quality with 35mm film is second in importance to other apsects of cinema operations. After all, the films that are being shown scratched, on underlamped projectors, on dirty or improperly masked screens, etc., bear the names of the film production and distribution companies. Doesn't the fact that their product is being made to look substandard by some non-caring folks in the exhibition end bother them?Maybe if distributors started awarding prints of new releases to theatres based on presentation quality, rather than by who has the most screens, etc., we'd see the big boys wake up and take more interest in doing film right.
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-31-2001, 01:19 PM:
It all boils down to money, of course. The film companies, who are taking an ever-increasing share of the boxoffice (due to the shorter play times/higher percentages) are too cheap to employ the kind of checks necessary to charge the theatres causing all the print damage.This is why they will never agree to pay (or even help pay) for the digital conversion. If they're too cheap to pay for "that level of service" at Technicolor, why would they ever shell out millions for digital projectors?
Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 12-31-2001, 01:24 PM:
Good point, Mike!
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-31-2001, 01:31 PM:
... "why would they ever shell out millions for digital projectors?"My understanding is companies like Technicolor will help theaters pay for digital projectors because they will then place "pre-feature" advertising on screen. Technicolor will sell that advertising time, and that's where their revenue will come from.
Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 12-31-2001, 01:49 PM:
While watching American Movie Classics recently, I realized that I had just seen a commercial in the middle of a movie. I never thought I would see this come about. Not only do you have to pay to get that channel (admission) but you have watch commercials that interrupt the movie. I would be willing to bet that if the theater loses control over their programing to the extent that someone else is figuring out what trailers and advertisements are at the beginning, it will not be long before that beautiful digital picture is interrupted by, guess what.------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/
Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 12-31-2001, 02:02 PM:
Greg, I'm also annoyed by AMC's (American Movie Classic's) new policy of interrupting the movies with commercials. I don't mind so much when they run ads BETWEEN the movies but I find it very irritating when they use them as a disruption. When that happens I wish I'd chosen to watch the movie on VHS or DVD instead of on AMC. In fact, recently I've found myself opting to watch a movie on video rather than AMC, just so that I won't have to endure the commercials. Maybe that's what other movie viewers would do (even more than they do already) if cinema presentations in the future started including more commercial ads and became more like the small screen.
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 12-31-2001, 02:03 PM:
Well, of course it's easy at the drive-in, honk your horn. I've been to a couple where the owner will actually say in his opening remarks "If you see a problem with picture or sound, just let us know or honk your horns". Seems to me, that's what you need. What about a device that could alert the booth to a problem. Select a patron or two (responsible, family types maybe), offer a break on the ticket if they agree to press the "picture" or "sound" button if there was a problem. Projectionist would get the call "sound-screen 7" and could attend to it tout suite. The key is responsible people and how you find them on the way in. Another dumb idea, but I typed it, so I'll post....Let me also say "boo" to AMC on this new policy. I just renewed and am horrified by it. What is TMC like these days?
Posted by Stefan Scholz (Member # 147) on 12-31-2001, 03:19 PM:
I do have a general problem attending movie shows. Most of them are lousy. There is no site that runs proper illumination, 8fl is coomon maximum for mid size ( I measured it) and below for large screens. Talking to the largest exhibitors tech executive, he said, you can't get those 60+ ft screens bright. I'm owning a 60 ft screen theatre, running Kinotone FP30D and 5k lamp. Centre brightness of 17 fl, with allowed dropoff 25% toward the sides. It took about 3 hrs to gain that result. Answer from the tech executive: "Who has the time to so, or the money to pay somebody to it."
I think, this gives the point. Why should we do anything, as there is no competition, and therefore clients will return. (The competitor is private and presentation quality crazy, and will never harm the rest due to no booking power.)The current situation of starting a movie in 99% of all movie complexes, running it interlock in as many halls as possible to sell as many tickets as possible the first week, I consider it dangerous. A film has no chance to build up a reputation, giving long lasting interest in movie going. It is just a matter of the accompanying commercial campaign, which costs billions of $$ worldwide.
It does not help movie going, off course, you're grabbing $$ the first weekend, only due to the number of prints/screens up and running, but in total, the release cycle shortens, with more and more people waiting for a quality DVD release.