What credibility does THX have as a brand when the chain of cinemas have their own THX certified technician employed?

The reason for me asking this is that I think that THX has lost it credibility when no independent person is controlling the quality on a regular basis.
It seems as though when getting a cinema THX certified, the quest to withhold and increase the quality of the cinema is brought to a standstill by the owner.

How do you feel about the system with THX certifiers employed at the chain of cinemas?
Wouldn’t it be preferable if an independent person from THX together with the local technician would check the quality of the set-up and come to an agreement with the management how to update and maintain the system to be able to keep the THX certification. This to prevent an internal conflict between the management and the local technician.

Even if a cinema is well equipped it all comes down to the projectionist to keep the presentation at the promised level of quality. It is important to maintain a high and good standard of the projectionist considering that he or she becomes more and more of a technical engineer for the cinema.

BTW, is it by any chance possible to THX certify scriptwriters to keep them from making bad sequels?

 

THe THX monitor is good, but I feel the setup software (DOS only) is "not finished." Yes, it does the job, but for being a state of the art peice of equipment, the software is lacking. The R2 unit was the same; A good unit, but (again) the software was not finished. It's better now, but still a little rough around the edges.
 

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
 

Windows 2000 (Full 32-bit version, not just DOS)
Mac OS 9
Mac OS X
Be OS
Linux
Solaris
NeXTstep
Windows CE
and of course Apple ][e

My point is this: Why live with software that only runs on ancient operating systems?
 

Although, it would be cool to do it from a Palm Pilot, or maybe a Commodore 64.

Adam, I think we have been trusting Microsoft with our THX systems since the begginning. DOS is a microsoft product, thats how they started in buisness. Almost all large light boards run on DOS as well. Microsoft however did not develop it, they bought the system. You can run an R-2 from a pocket HP computer. Gord and I both carry one as backup to our main laptops. When you travel great distances it pays to ahve it available.
Mark @ GTS

Sure, THX theater are, at least, well equipped since the project of the theater is checked by THX engeneers.
However, I went to few THX theaters in Italy and all were not so good.
A theater of my chain is THX certified. Since 3 years and half, we NEVER had a THX tech to check something. So why have to pay the certification fee?
I think (At least in Italy) that a good theater can be done without any THX logo.

If THX will continue with this way of business, THX theater will soon became just "normal" theater and THX logo will soon loose any value.
I'm sorry, because I will always remember my first THX experience: was my first real "Theater" experience.

Bye
Antonio
 

But whatever it is, it should be the same. I feel that most non-professional computer users use Win95 or 98, and that's what I feel all setup software should run on. People just want to get their job done without having to learn how to use the operating system too.
 

However the annual 'inspection', IMHO, is more a marketing exercise than a serious attempt to enforce standards. In the one inspection process I ever witnessed, the inspector was purely concerned with the sound setup and didn't even look at a picture on the screen at any point during the inspection! I was told by front-of-house staff that he did sit in on the last reel of the last film of the evening before he started on the inspection, but even so he would only have seen one projector working in one ratio. I know of other venues where annual reinspections have been late, not happened at all or have been undertaken by a company's own engineer. This could well be because of the logistical problems of getting inspectors over from the US, but I think it would be fair to say that as a general rule, 'THX' guarantees a well-designed auditorium but not picture or sound quality.

In terms of what it actually assesses, Kodak Screencheck strikes me as being a far more rounded set of tests to actually determine the overall quality of presentation, though I was not given confidence when I once got sent an advertising brochure for this programme which included a photo of an inspector gazing into an open lamphouse without wearing a safety visor.

Our on-air computers that are running both KAPS and KBRC in the DOS 6.22 enviroment. Our on-air computers use a special program written by Pristine Systems out of California. Although Windows 3.11 is in those computers, we never use it.

Our Program Scheduling computers are also running under 6.22. We do use windows 3.11 in them if we have to do wav file editing through the SAW program. Then the files are converted to a SPC file (which is nothing more than a MPEG with wierd compression so nothing else will run it.

Very seldom do we have any problems with the DOS computers, unless the "DJ" gives the computer a wrong command and deletes a bunch of files. This happened once. One of our "DJ"s thought he was deleting files on "A" drive. Turns out he was in a program directory on "C" drive when he typed in, del *.*

It took about 4 hours to undelete *.* with hopes of guessing the correct first character of the file being undeleted.

Architecture, accoustics, and sound gear is part of the program. Projectors, lamphouses and film transport systems are not.

I have seen THX theaters where keystoning was very noticable due to the positions of the screen, audience and projection equipment due to stadium seating. But apparently the alignment was within THX specs. Nonetheless, on some of these screens, the projection alignment was so bad that even screen lighting at 16fl was impossible! Also, the aperture plates were horrendous and resulted in severe overshoots!

I have also seen THX screens were auditoriums are back to back or 90 degrees to each other, and there were problems with screen images reflecting onto an opposing screen from within the booth.

Whether in house techs should be allowed to recertify their own screens. I am under the impression that in house techs do the testing and adjusting, and all info is recorded on a computer disc which is turned in to THX for analysis, evaluation and approval.
 

The re-cert issue has been brought up before, and although this is not my department, I will say that logistically, we can do the initial certification and design work, no problem... But the re-certs, well, we need more Don Sneeds out there. Internationally, it's the same story, with a few different languages.

I really doubt we would certify a theatre with a keystoning problem or with stray light issues (I forget who said that, sorry).

And Brad, at least we know we can't buy your silence (have you been getting my checks?), because you still give us trouble no matter how much cash we send your way... You'd think the life-sized Jar Jar would suffice. I'm kidding. We never tried to pay off Brad... yet.

Maybe we should consider it? (ha, ha)

Yours, Ted

Ted Costas
Senior Manager
THX Theatre Alignment Program
 

Some of you guys sure like to wine alot!!!!! I have great brie to go with that!!!!
Doesn't the overall responsibility of quality presentation fall directly to the operating/ management staff & the ownership? I believe it is written somewhere on paper once a THX contract is approved!!! Indeed THX has the certifying responsibility but once a technician leaves the site whos at falut if it looks or sounds like crap??! Come on guys!
Ill be honest....are there THX theaters that should NOT have been certified originally <bad acoustics poor picture quality> probably!! ITS called politics people and it happens all the time and the cinema industry is not an exception. Surely Cinema corporate beaurucracy has taught you this lesson at least.....ever have problems ordering parts for your maintenance of the equipment?

In essence a THX theater means this:
1. decent equipment
2. smpte standard sound (acoustics, setup & calibration)
3. smpte standard picture (16ft/L, 5% distortion, etc etc)
Thats it!!!!!!
By the way......how many THX technicians are there in order cover the 3000 + worldwide theaters/ mixing rooms / pm3 facilities? Last I checked there were four. 4!!! 3+1!!! 9-5!!! So, in order to cover the new locations I'd say they are understaffed let alone the recertifications. For those of you who works in THX environment...how many times has you facility been recertified? hmmm thats what I thought. That my friends is called politics and THX is not the only victim to fall under this type beauracracy.

For those realists like Gordon and other capable engineers/technicians the only logical next alternative is to perform in house THX certification. The key to this is INTERGRITY which must exist to begin with. What does this mean to the client? Asolutely nothing!!! However, any technician that would turn off AC compressors in order to pass a THX certification doesn't have any business in the booth nor serving popcorn in my book. Keeping it honest is the name of the game.
All this negativity towards THX is just an excuse to "pass the buck," THX like all other Cinema industry companies is trying to keep itself surviving. If we have forgotten we are in a Cinema Industry crisis and no one is immune, especially a company which provides a special service like THX.
Im sure we can all agree that in theory, THX is a great idea and much like communism was to the old Soviet republic....the practice of it, well has met obstacles, dificulties...and of course corruption. Again, who does the responsibility of good picture/sounds fall to?
answer: That technician in charge of maintaining proper a-chain, b-chain, picture alignment, and other preventative maintanance measures.
I have had the pleasure in my line of work of witnessing a countless number of THX certifications <200+> throughout the world and I must say that I have seen poor contruction/ installations from two layers of sheet rock missing at the baffle walls, over enlarged speaker openings, plastic inside high frequency horns, speaker cabinets that came out of phase from the manufaturer, wrong gauge speaker wire used, non sound treated theater entry doorways, exit signs visible through the picture screen, acoustic anomalies such as slap echo and reverberation in excess of one second in more than on frequency band, poor lens calculations, NC readings in excess of NC30, non-THX wiring of speaker to amplifiers, not enough surround speakers placed in the auditorium etc etc etc......all of which were sites that DID NOT PASS THX CERTIFICATION!!!!
So I dont get it honestly. As a previous technician/engineer at an all THX auditorium company, and having performed my own recertifications and such using my own R2 analyzer I would expect that a THX certification of course would be "on par," however, I would accompany him/her <yes there have been female certifiers> and ensure that they performed there duties appropriately. Those guys work surprisingly long hours and can use all the help thay can get when it comes to cerifying. I dont know how many of my collegues dont pre aim the speakers set levels along with a-chain and b-chain prior to cerification. In case most of you dont know that is NOT THX's job.....they simply must verify that the theater is set up properly. Sadly, in most cases THX technicians are stuck doing some of the install including speaker aiming and all electical calibration of the theater equipment. I know that there are many techs and engineers out there that drop the ball or are clueless as to what THX is really supposed to during the cerification phase and performing a complete a-chain is not it. Perhaps that is part of the problem that you folks seem to be complaining about. If there is any doubt e-mail me as I will be glad to provide documentation supportin this.
THX does its best to ensure quality....it has met obstacles along with everyone else in the industry and thus its name is the first one to logically point the finger at. Things must be looked at in perspective and the responsibilit must be evenly distributed. As for a bad THX screen out there....lets pay the projectionists a little more, thank them for their hard work, provide sounds preventative maintenace procedures and fix equipment properly and quickly and I bet that these THX complaints will diminish. Whilst there are faluty THX theaters that probably should not have been certified to begin with Id say they are far better that your typical shoe box AMC garden variety "Hits" <the true joke of cinema experience> auditorium.

Rory
 

I don't think anyone here is saying that THX is crap. What people (including me) are saying is that there are problems with the way the auditoriums are being re-certified by lazy, deaf and ass kissing circuit techs who will fake anything to pass the test so their bosses won't have to spend any money. Don't take the complaints as mean spirited or to mean that the THX system is a joke. Instead, please take them as helpful hints on where problems lie and put an end to this nonsense. Sure Lucasfilm is bound to lose some business from people upset by being "outed" as a THX certified tech who falsifies information on the re-certs, but the way it is going THX is dying because of the lack of strict standards. If something isn't done, THX will be completely dead in a few years. It's already getting to the point where customers no longer look for the THX name and that is a real shame.

Also needed is a truly fantastic knock-your-socks-off THX trailer. Not that mega rushed Cavalcade (please don't even consider releasing another logo if it feels rushed at all), not that Cimarron with the bland track on it (remember the GOOD track when the Cimarron first came out?), and certainly no more "funny" logos, which grow tiresome after the first few viewings. We need something that shows off all 5 stage channels of an SDDS-8 system and makes excellent use of EX. Something to crack the foundation without causing people's ears to bleed. High-tech graphics really aren't needed to impress. The thing here is SOUND. This is why I am still running the classic Broadway logos. Sure they are very much overplayed, but out of everything on the list, it's still the most impressive (despite the fact that the sound no longer travels around the room and the surrounds are MONO). And don't be afraid to use the low frequencies below 40hz either. If someone's system suffers after playing it, well that'll just force them to upgrade things to where they should have been in the first place, now won't it? Episode II is coming soon. Feel free to send me mix samples of your new logo for approval.

I for one am proud to run the THX logo on a screen that has been properly calibrated wherever I am running a show and I hold the entire Lucasfilm TAP and THX programs in very high regards, when executed properly. However, when I go to a THX auditorium and the sound is bad, it is an embarassment and it is death to the THX name. If anything, I vote for much stricter THX standards and even a new label if necessary. Call it Super THX or something and charge more and be super strict on quality standards and control, but let's please see to it that nothing gets overlooked (including the quality of projection which is getting worse every week) that would destroy the THX name that people once looked for to experience the ultimate in their moviegoing experience.

I completely agree with you.
Perhaps in an first moment be more strict would be negative for THX because many theater will lost their certification. But the remaining ones will be "Super THX" and people will associate a good experience with the "THX" logo.
Then customers will start searching for THX theater. And THX will start to make business.
Follow this actual way of business, Brad is right, take to die.

Bye
Antonio

Re: Having different levels of THX standards. I hate the idea. THX has already done that with consumer audio. "THX Select" and 1 or 2 other levels that I can't recall right now. These are tied to retail price points for the manufacturers of audio gear. If we apply the same principle to movie theatres, can I expect to pay less at the box office for "THX Standard" than I would for "THX Premium"? ACK!

------------------
- dave
Crab juice, or Mountain Dew?
 

THX Premium gave to theaters that follow a real certification program.

I don't know if it could work...

Bye
Antonio
 

As if THX theaters are being designed with substandard criteria.... I dont think so.....In case you dont know THX follows SMPTE guidelines as far as theater acoustical and electrical design and set up of any auditorium.....This can not be improved short of rewriting SMPTE guidlines.....THX standards are not privy to THX! They are not a secret and can be found anywhere SMMPTE is involved. I think all this talk about creating new standards is counterproductive and wont improve quality as it is today. Once a THX theater is certified and quality diminishes am I understanding that it is THX's fault? No responsibility must be assumed by operating/ managing/ maintenance/ and ownership staff? Please lets be realistic!!! Thats like saying that THX should have known about the brain wrap in theater #5 or that the intermittent was shot in projector #9. come on!! A THX tech leaves most<hence not to make a blanket statement> auditoriums in SMPTE STANDARD conditions and it is up to the theater company to maintain these SMPTE standards.....how is it THX's fault if a bulb is flickering or if great focus can't be achieved be cause someone moved the lens. please lets be realistic.

Rory

For example, why doesn't THX employ a technician or two to travel around to the various certified theatres to do spot checks, say once a year? You could even sub-contract this out to known reputable service companies. You don't need instruments to tell if something is not right, so if a particular aspect is determined to be suspect, then the tech could order a full re-test. That way you are not tying up a tech and test equipment in long-winded re-testing that in many cases would not be necessary.

------------------
Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935

Rory
 

So maybe THX could, as a part of their certification or re-certification contracts, require that the theatres send their projection staff to THX-run seminars to learn better maintenance practices and how to recognise problems to ensure the rooms remain up to standard. Dolby has been running training seminars very successfully for decades to ensure that techs around the world install their equipment correctly. If Dolby, who make just a fraction of the profit per screen compared with a THX certification, can afford to do it, maybe THX could do a similar thing for projectionists. After all, what is the use of a THX certified room if the projectionists aren't up to the same standard? Just a thought.

------------------
Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935
 

What I said is that if THX has no enough money to follow a THX certified theater with regular checks, I think that
1. THX will loose all credibility and it will die
2. THX has to create a new type of certification (more expensive) that guarantees tech's controls on a regular basis (not new rules).

There is a THX theater in the chain I work for. It has been certified in 1996. NO checks are occurred since 1996. At the moment I'm not very convinced about its sound equalization.
Right, it is a well constructed theater, it has the right number of speakers, with the correct power. But THX never check it.

I'm not saying that THX rules should change. I'm not saying that THX should check scratches and poor mainteinance on projection equipment.
I say that THX should apply that rules, and follow the theater with regulat controls.

I agree with you: if then the management don't care if the movie is scratched and/or out of focus, ok that is not THX job.

Bye
Antonio
 

Ray: YES!!!! let's talk about proper training in regards to projection staff! Indeed booth operation as a whole is poor at best at most theaters and is probably the worst part of of the cinema experience. While there are many projectionists that care and do their jobs the best they possibly can a bad projectionist manhandling film and not caring about great focus or clean splices is what is obvious to the client and thus what definately ruins alot of the quality in presentation today. We need more training and I remember actual THX technicians who cared enough to talk to my projection staff in regards to proper presentation practices. Those guys actually work their tails off in my opinion and talking to my projection staff is definately not part of the THX contract yet they go out of their way to do so and thus I appreciate that part of their work etiquette. Even as recently as a year ago I have dealt with THX technicians whom care enough to work with my projection staff!! My hat goes off to them!

Antonio: I am sorry about your equalization in your THX theater that was certified in 1996. Trust me I understand your frustration in regards to the recertification, however I am alarmed that your theater has not had a complete B-chain performed since 1996 and thus I must ask again: Where the HE#& are your technicians and engineers?? I perform a B-chain 3 months after THX tech leaves any newly certified theater. New Speaker frequency response change slightly over time especially once broken in. Using a newly calibrated R2 I find as a whole that my high freq horns become more efficient and thus I have to rolls back some of the high en EQ! On top of that I perform a B-chain twice a year <right before the summer season starts and right before the holiday season starts to ensure my auditoriums are up to par and perfectly up to SMPTE <THX> specs. A THX technician can enter my theater at any time during the year and feel free that the equalization is at the ISO curve without doubt. 300mv comming out the processor, etc etc etc. I keep the auditorium at THX standards because it is MY responsibility to do so. If I were to be so lucky and have a recertification performed in my auditoriums they would only need to place microphones and VERIFY it to be so. THis means they wouldn't have to touch any equalization pots or gain on the amplifiers etc etc. Simply, a quick two hour measurement session of RT-60, HVAC, a-chain/ b-chain and Screen luminanace then they are off to the next client.

Again, Antonio I feel that your theater once THX certified means that it is a great theater. If THX hasn't been there to recertify it are you just going to leave it in the conditions that it currently is in? This was the frustration that Ray sensed in me two posts previous. Have your techs/engineers b-chained <equalized> your theater at least once since 1996? If not I am sorry to declare but that your theater chain needs more work on its maintenance practices.

As a whole I hate fixing things and having to order parts. The type of maintenace that I perform is called "preventative maintenance!"

Minimum: I change the oil in my projectors once a year. Clean my reflectors with a diaper or fine cotton twice a year. Use an air compressor <with dehumidifier> and keep my sound equipment <cards seated properly etc etc> dust free every three months. I clean the squirell cages from all the dust lint that accumulates and check all my systems electrically all without fail. This I love to do! 6 years of Marine Corps avionics/navigation systems maintenance has instilled this in me and the practice works!

The time for passing the buck is long over and the time for taking matters into your own hands is the name of the game. Brad I believe also has this type of mentality as well as others whom post on this forum like Gordon and other such engineers. Good job fellas!!!!

Rory

Yes, our THX theater (the only one in the town) is considered the best one.
The theater has been equalized twice since 1996 but:
1. THX doesn't know that has been re-equalized twice
2. First time has been equalized by a "tech" that cut off all subwoofer channel. It has been equalized again after 1 year ( ) However now it is not in so good conditions...

I mean that THX NEVER check our theater. Noone from THX has never come in and say "hi".
My company is a little company, we don't have an internal tech or a mainteinance program.

I would say that from 1996 THX could find a moment to go to that theater and have a look... What do you think? THX cannot trust in management about mainteinance procedures...

Bye
Antonio
 

WOW! no recertification since 1996! well the only response I can say to that and probably one that you won't like:
There is an american saying "Take a number!"

Part of the frustration regarding this post and I'm sure that Brad and others would agree is exactly that! Recertification! The fact is that most theaters have not been recertified since their original certification. The theater company that I previously worked for local to southern California had to basically beg, kick, stomp, threaten, fight, and plead with THX in order to have theaters recertified. Fortunatelly, it worked and the entire chain has been recertified <roughly 70 screens> Fellow engineers whom I work with regularly have also told me many of their theaters have been recertified. And last week I finished a telephone service call with a Las vegas chain whos techs told me that theaters have been recertified as recently as a year ago. I dont know what to tell you Antonio...but perhaps your company can work a little tougher with THX in order to have them recertified. Seems to me a little pushing and shoving did the trick for both of them and might me a tactic you might resort to .

Rory
 

Chase Taylor

 

I need a new leather jacket. I'm coming to Florence. Which theatre is it that we should have de-certified again...?

Love you guys, Ted

Ted Costas
Senior Manager
THX Theatre Alignment Program
 

Unfortunately my english is not so good to understand what you want to say... What do you mean with "take a number"?

Recertification: what do you mean with that? I'm not a manager, I'm just a projectionist so I don't know what is behind the THX recertification. I would think that my chain has to pay an annual fee. Then THX CAN (not have to) send a tech to CHECK (and not to perform) the equalization.
I still have to see a THX tech since 1996!!!

I beleive that if once a year an "original" THX tech come to the THX theater to check it, the quality in THX theater will improve drastically. This is not happening, so many THX theaters are loosing their quality.

Antonio
 

Antonio: "take a number!" means get in line behind everyone else who has a theater that has not been recertified as well.
It means that you are not the only one whom is frustrated.
However, I still feel that even though your auditorium has not been visited by a THX tech recently it is still not adequate reason enough for it to be in poor presentation quality. I fail to understand how it can be better simply because of the visit of a THX tech. Proper a-chain, b-chain, and luminance must still be kept up to standards regardless and at all times.

Rory

Yes, in an ideal situation there is no need of THX tech. But in an ideal situation there's no need of THX!

In an ideal world, all theaters has DD,DTS,SDDS, best amplification, best projectors etc etc.
THX has born because too many theaters were bad. Yes, THX tech should come to the theater, check that all is done properly and go away.
This is not real world however.

About the theater of my chain, what can I say... My management has always try to do its best for that theater. Just a little late sometimes.
I'm not saying that our THX theater is in bad condition. I just say that it could be better, and at the same time, it could be in worse condition and THX will never know because we never saw noone from THX. That's all!

Luckily, the theater IS in good condition (ok, the EQ is not convincing me (particularly the subwoofer channel) but, however, is far better than all the other theaters in Florence), my colleague do its best in quality presentation, so the final results is good.

"take a number": understood! "prendi un numero e mettiti in coda" we say in Italy!

Ted,
I think that it is not a secret, since it is the only THX theater in the town...

Bye
Antonio
 

If presented correctly, THX is amazing. I am no film expert, or know much about the technical side of cinema as everybody else here. Actually, I have never worked in a theater. I am just part of your audience, a consistent audience member to movie theaters mind you. One of the main reasons I go so often is not only to see the new releases, or the really big screen, of course that's part of it, but it's the sound presentation that sells my ticket.

Before I moved to Charlotte, NC, my local theater offered 7 THX auditoriums out of 15 screens. This theater was in sad shape, consistently dirty, leaky roofs, broken seats, even after a year of renovations, expansions, and stadium seating installed. However, let me tell you the sound was spectacular in those THX auditoriums. Especially in the largest auditorium which sat 360 people. Many of the people I knew which know nothing about theaters would rather go there only because of THX. When a new cinema was built in the area, I gave it a shot. It was a beautiful theater but the sound was horrible in comparison. I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I went back there because I knew the sound was much better at the THX certified cinema.

Now that I am living in Charlotte, there are many beautiful theaters to choose from, but not a single one is THX certified. Over a hundred screens in a city with a population around 1.5 million and not a single one offers THX? Needless to say, the sound quality has been very poor. Let me put it this way, I have been to every movie theater with in a 35 minute drive, and two of them sound decent. So I pass by two theaters to get to the one with better sound. I don't get it, they all have dts, Dolby Digital, and some are EX, and a hand full are SDDS-6/8 but they just don't impress me as a well maintained THX certified theater. If any theater in town decides to one day market THX, I will be one of the first in line.
 

Anyhow, this is my last ditch effort to get a response from THX regarding a project that I am involved with. In any case, I had the people from THX do a feasibility/evaluation on this project. They were most polite through our coorospondance. Anyhow, after their on site evaluation, they were to mail me as well as my client copies of their report. This was during the summer of last year. In any case, I have never recieved a report, and my client says that they have not received one as well. I have contacted the approperiate people at THX several times via telephone and e-mail regarding this situation. The answer that I keep getting is that it is in the mail. Sometimes when I have e-mailed or called and have left messages, they have not been returned. Yes, they do have my correct e-mail, phone number and street address. So THX, where is the report, or do you not take a serious interest in potential clients?

 

A funny thing happened to me while I was having lunch with George at the Ranch... this fellow tried to parachute into the vineyards by the main house, and, may he rest in peace...

Will, I'm gonna take care of you here, hold onto the parachute.

Yours, Ted

It has been 4138 days since the last post.