Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Countdown on Headers

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Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 01-26-2002, 04:09 PM:

I was building up Moulin Rouge and something just stuck me. The countdown to 3 on the headers. I always assumed that these were seconds but upon inspection i noticed that the numbers were only spaced around 15 or 16 frames apart. So that is about a 0.6 seconds. What is the reason for this. (maybe John Pytlak can help me out, Is it some kind of standard?)

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-26-2002, 04:32 PM:

The original Academy leader is based on number space 1 foot apart (16frames) and since the cranking speed was 16fps then they were 1 second apart
The SMPTE leader (the clock) is based on seconds
There is also a modified academy leader with the numbers 24frames apart

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-26-2002, 08:44 PM:

I don't have the standards at home with me, but I recall that the countdown "Television Release Print" Leader with seconds countdown "clock" is specified by SMPTE 55. The new "Academy like" leader with feet countdown is specified by SMPTE 301.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Tao Yue (Member # 836) on 01-27-2002, 09:10 PM:

Do any of the big studios use universal heads?

I've had one case where one reel was universal (prob. because some projectionist spliced on the wrong head), but other than that, all the films I've run come with Academy heads.

------------------
Tao Yue
MIT '04: Course VI-2, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Projectionist, MIT Lecture Series Committee

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 01-27-2002, 10:16 PM:

Michael: As Gord pointed out, the numbers on almost all Academy (11-3) leaders are separated one foot apart, and are a holdover from the silent era. The SMPTE universal leader (the infamous 'Foreigner 4' clock sweep leader that counts from 8 to 2) is exactly 24 frames or one second between the numbers.

>>Do any of the big studios use universal heads?<<

The studios aren't the ones that do this, it is the labs. The following labs use SMPTE Universal leaders on *release prints*:

Technicolor NYC
CFI (now part of Tech Hollywood, so they may have changed to Academy heads by now)
Monaco Film Labs
Atlab

Early (late 70s-early 80s) DeLuxe Hollywood prints I have seen can have both Academy and SMPTE leaders on different reels of the same print!

Other labs that normally use Academy leaders for release prints do use SMPTE leaders for non-release elements like workprints and some types of dailies (yes I have seen dailies reels with leaders).

-Aaron

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-27-2002, 10:36 PM:

In the old carbon-arc days, it was the thing to do to rack on #7, 8, or 9....depending on how fast your projectors could come up to speed before change-over. The normal reaction time to initiate the motor cue and changeover cue depended on your reflexes......and if you had a new print and knew your machines and your own limitations, you could make a practically seamless change-over on a consistant basis. (Part of showmanship, if memory serves me correctly.)

However, if it is a real garbage movie, I have been known to rack on 3, force myself into an early change-over, and beat the meter maid to the car.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-27-2002, 10:37 PM:

I've seen prints with a mix of different types of leaders on different reels, although it seems to happen more with 16mm prints than 35mm.

"Men With Guns" had SMPTE leaders and, I think, "Red Violin" did as well. Other than that, I can't remember any recent titles that didn't have the Academy (footage) countdown.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-27-2002, 10:44 PM:

What about the threading leader we attach to the beggining of our prints? Those also have the numbers spaced at 16 frames, and I never could understand why! I usually thread so that 8 or 9 is in the aperture. For a seven second delay, it works perfectly.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-27-2002, 10:50 PM:

Ken, if you ever ran a manual changeover house, you would very quickly discover those numbers on the leaders area a very valuable commodity if used correctly.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-27-2002, 11:15 PM:

I have never run changovers. I am curious. Please explain.

When running changeovers, don't you use the head leader that comes on the reel? Why wouldn't they make the threading leader that we platter people use with the numbers 1 second apart?

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-27-2002, 11:38 PM:

Ken:

The answer to your first question is "yes" in most cases.

The answer to your second question is basically, "Who cares?". as long as one knows what the projection rate is. Most of us in the olden days went by footage instead of seconds. Serves the same purposes. Just a different reference.

I have seen some "second" count-down leaders, but personally, I never did like them. It was, in my mind, like GM vs. Ford. Ford had a better idea, except their light bulb burned out years ago...

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-28-2002, 02:16 AM:

Ken: the number of frames between the 'start' frame and the first picture frame on an Academy leader (I think it's 168 but that's probably wrong) is exactly the same as the number of frames between the two sets of cue dots on the end of a reel (if they're printed in the right place). So theoretically you lace up the incoming reel with the word 'start' in the gate. But of course that assumes that the motor of the incoming projector runs at full speed from the moment you switch it on, which of course none do. So to compensate for the ramping time, you would, in a typical changeover house (as Paul points out), lace the leader down a bit further. In most of the places I worked it was somewhere between 10 and 7, but of course that depends on the individual projector and motor.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-28-2002, 03:42 AM:

As Paul G said, it really is of no consequence if the sync leader has the countdown numbers spaced in seconds or feet, they are just reference numbers so that the outgoing projector syncs correctly with the incoming projector. The reason I dislike both the SMPTE versions is because they were really designed for TV operation and not theatrical projection. They eliminated one of the features of the Academy leader: the very distinct divisions between the numbers -- the totally black frames contrasting with the transparent number frames. It is always very easy in manual operation to find the number you are looking for because of this obvious visual differentiation. The diamond frame even facilitates racking on frames that are somewhere in between numbers (one booth here requires racking up 4 frames before #9 for near frame-perfect change-overs). With the SMPTE leaders, every frame is the exactly the same density with no distinction between them so you need to look carefully at the leader to find your correct startup frame. With the SMPTE leaders you need to go hunting for a particular slice of the clock to approximate that same distance as the Academy number. What makes it worse, the labs never seem to follow a standard for either density or color with SMPTE leaders; I've seen leaders that vary from almost transparent density to almost opaque, where you couldn't see the numbers or the clock unless you held it up to a bright light -- very inconvenient and prone to error. I always re-mark (as I have seen many other projectionists do) numbers [10], [9] and [8] on equivalent frames. Also, there doesn't seem to be any particular uniformity as to the color of the SMPTE leaders -- I have seen everything from deep blue to a kind of dirty, splotchy pink. I would have thought a leader designed by THE standards organization would have created a standard for the color and density of its own leader.

Another disadvantage of the SMPTE leaders in manual operation is that the uniform density does not allow the projectionist to see the "flashes" as the transparent number frames roll through the aperture. We old change-over guys relied on the flashes to mentally count down with the leader and to know to open the dowser after number three flashes. With the uniform density of the SMPTE, there is no flash and with the leaders that are printed very densely, you need to put a piece of artist's tape after number two as your cue to open the dowser. With the leaders that are printed very light, you have to be very careful NOT to open the dowser until the leader passes because it doesn't go to black after number 2, but says that light color right up until the first frame of the film -- open the dowser a second before, and you wind up getting a bright screen of color rather than black. The SMPTE leaders eliminated these visual cues that facilitated good showmanship in theatrical operation and which were part of the Academy leader. Rather it created a need for some sort of additional, projectionist-added cues.

I know in the early seventies, when manual change-over booths were still quite prevalent, projectionists that I knew all had the same feeling about the SMPTE leaders -- no one liked them for the above reasons. Some actually felt that the SMPTE had abandoned theatrical needs for the needs of television (TV people hated the Academy leader because the transparent number frames, coming after 15 frames of total black, reeked havoc on the plumbicon tubes in telecine cameras -- what they needed was a neutral density leader which they got in the SMPTE Universal).

I think sometime back then I wrote to the SMPTE suggesting that "universality" shouldn't be a goal in and of itself and to admit that it just doesn't work with such divergent needs of exhibition and television; I suggested that there should be a leader specifically tailored for each application rather than one which ignores the needs of one or the other -- in this case, specifically ignoring theatrical exhibition. The suggestions were printed, but the leader stood. A lot of booth guys felt that the SMPTE had abandoned their needs on this one, especially after it was learned that the TV guys on the leader committee were originally pushing hard to make the leader even shorter than the 8 seconds because in TV operation, they don't need to worry about projectors "getting up to speed." Thankfully that idea was voted down. The fact is that the studios never really embraced the SMPTE sync leaders, I think because of these reasons, and the stalwart Academy leader is found on most major releases to this day, more than 30 years later.

Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 01-28-2002, 11:08 AM:

Frank, I love those rare occasions when I do actually get a print with the "real" academy leader on it. I do run changeover and use those "flashes" whenever possible. I also aree with you about the 24 frame/count leader. The uniformity of all the frames make it more difficult to tell where you are in the leader and how soon you will have to open that douser.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-28-2002, 12:32 PM:

Joe Beres said: "I love those rare occasions when I do actually get a print with the "real" academy leader on it. I do run changeover and use those "flashes" whenever possible."

Film-Tech participant Jeffry L. Johnson and Jess Daily of the UCLA Film Archive developed standard SMPTE 301 for the new Theater Projection Leader. The black frames are specified as being a neutral density greater than 1.95, and there is a "flash" for each footage number counting down from "11" to "3", just like the original "Academy" leader. The standard also specifies the identification information to be printed on the leaders, and the size and position of the cue marks.

Posted by Joseph Pandolfi (Member # 223) on 01-28-2002, 08:31 PM:

I have been taught to put the "EIGHT IN THE GATE". Therefore on startup. The splice between the leader and your first trailer (or in my case the state required "EXIT" policy) clears the sound head before the changeover opens. I realized that when you have a number that is right in the window of the aperture plate you should have the diamond mark right dead center on the sound head providing that you are two sprocket holes past where your intermittent stops. Is that True?

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 01-30-2002, 12:13 PM:

Each projectionist must determine what is correct for each projector. This may mean threading with 8 in the gate. It may be 9. Or it may be 10.

For 35mm, the "diamond" frame will be at the soundhead if picture start or a numerical frame is in the gate. The diamond frame leads by 20 frames. This will produce sound synchronized with picture about 50 feet back from the screen in the auditorium. Dead sync in 35mm is 21 frames (SMPTE-40). Each projectionist should determine the correct lower loop size for sound/picture synchronization about 2/3 back from the screen in each auditorium.

There have been 4 standardized leaders in the USA, the Academy Leader (ASA Z22.55), the All-Purpose Leader ("Journal of the SMPTE" 56: 562-567, 1951 May), the Universal Leader (ANSI/SMPTE-55; "Journal of the SMPTE" 74: 34-35, 1965 January), and the Projection Leader (ANSI/SMPTE-301). Both the All-Purpose Leader and the Universal Leader were designed for television use. The Universal Leader standard is now renamed the Television Leader standard.

At the time the original workgroup investigated revising the Universal Leader and creating the Projection Leader there was some confusion because some laboratories used Academy leaders with SMPTE cue spacing. There is a subtle difference between Academy/SMPTE-301 cue spacing and SMPTE-55 cue spacing.

Laboratory
Leader
Cues
----------
DuArt
SMPTE Leader
SMPTE Cues
-----
CFI
SMPTE Leader
SMPTE Cues
-----
Technicolor
Academy Leader
SMPTE Cues
-----
Deluxe
Academy Leader
Academy Cues
-----
Metrocolor
Academy Leader
Academy Cues
=====

SMPTE-55
Motor Cue
4 frames
Distance between Cues
168 frames
Changeover Cue
4 frames
Distance to Last Frame
24 frames
TOTAL LENGTH
200 FRAMES
====================
ASA Z22.55 and SMPTE-301
Motor Cue
4 frames
Distance between Cues
172 frames
Changeover Cue
4 frames
Distance to Last Frame
18 frames
TOTAL LENGTH
198 FRAMES
====================

As far as I know SMPTE-301 is the first standard to include cue mark dimensions and placement for 16mm and 70mm prints.

For release print projection I prefer the Academy Leader or Projection Leader. I prefer the Universal Leader for screening dailies and for IMAX projection.