Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: DTS ES discs

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Posted by Miguel Angel Martorell (Member # 1110) on 01-26-2002, 09:55 PM:

In all the DTS discs that I´ve seen of the recent releases there is no reference about the ES (6.1 channels). There is any visible difference between the DTS and DTS ES discs.
The same happens with DD EX. Since it came only one print advertised in the reel boxes that it was recorded in this format. The film was Star Wars:The phamtom menace. Since then, none.
It happens the same in the rest of Europe? ´cause I think in the States you won´t have this problem.
Thanks

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Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 01-27-2002, 05:21 AM:

Hi Miguel,

Seems that EX print will be never be advertised. I think that the best think is to go on www.dolby.com or www.dtsonline.com (remember that when one movie is DD-EX encoded it will be also the DTS-ES version).
In Italy I never found any sticker or something telling us if it is EX or not. I've projected Star Wars and my copy didn't have any advise.
The problem is that the only theater that, at that time, has EX, asked for a change because "our copy is not EX recorded".

Wait... Do you have DTS ES decoder? I heard that DTS ES connected to DTS player will activate itself automatically IF the movie is ES encoded...

Karen, I believe that to do that there is a "bit" in the digital data that tell to DTS-ES that is time to turn on, right?
So, at the moment of encoding you know that the soundtrack is in ES. So why don't you put something on the disk itself? It will help who has SA-10 with DTS. And you will demonstrate more "attention" than Dolby...
It could be helpful to find "es" beside the title of the movie. Like:
"Star Wars - ES"

Bye
Antonio

Posted by Miguel Angel Martorell (Member # 1110) on 01-27-2002, 08:17 AM:

Hi Antonio. Thanks for your answer but the fact is that I haven´t got any ES or EX procesor.
I don´t know how works the DTS ES but in a newly opened megaplex with DD EX in all its screens they said me that the processor dont´s change to EX automatically if there´s an especific EX track so they select EX on all the presentations and as the said me "if there´s no EX track, the processor simulates one".
I don´t know what to think about it.
If Karen do you read this, does the DTS ES discs advertised on the written side of the disc or are just the same as the common DTS discs?
Thanks.

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Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 01-27-2002, 12:13 PM:

Miguel,

Does the new multiplex has CP650 or CP500? I know that CP650 will switch in EX (if installed) automatically. CP500 has to be manually (or via automation) selected.

EX/ES works in a very simple mode: a Dolby Stereo matrix code is applied to Surround Left and Surround Right during recording to put a Back Surround channel. Then a normal Dolby Stereo decoder will elaborate the LS/RS signal to "re-create" the back surround channel. The SA10 from dolby (the dolby unit for EX decoding) is just a modified CP45. The main difference is that a regular Dolby Stereo soundtrack will have 4 channel from a source of 2 channels; an EX decoder will decode 3 channel from 2. (like the center channel!).

If you play a NON EX soundtrack with the EX decoder activated, there will be a Dolby decoding in a non dolby encoded soundtrack. Like playing a Mono print with a Dolby SR decoder: it will be different than the director has intended it!

DTS-ES will change from "normal" to "ES" automatically instead.

Tell to your friend at multiplex that (if they have CP500):
1. Upgrade the Cp500 to last version, "1.61 EX". With that software version, if I remember correctly, a Dolby Digital on SK8 will automatically turn on the SA-10. So they'll have to set their automation to pulse the Cp500 to SK8 at film start.

Hope that this can help you. I believe that we understand better each other if I write in Italian and you write in Spanish...

Bye
Antonio

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-27-2002, 03:02 PM:

I'm not sure if this is what you are asking, but if you are playing back in SRD and using a DTS ES decoder, there is no "built in" automation. Same if you are playing back in DTS and using an SRD EX decoder. The only way is for your tech to specially wire it to be automated.

Note: this info may be outdated, for I seem to remember hearing that Dolby was working on something that would auto-detect the presence of EX.

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 01-28-2002, 05:04 AM:

Brad, you're right.

I know that to have ES automatically switch, you should hav a DTS player plus a DTS-ES decoder. You'll have back surround also with DTS+SA-10 but not automatically.

Doesn't CP650 will automatically recognize Dolby EX???

Bye
Antonio

Posted by Miguel Angel Martorell (Member # 1110) on 01-28-2002, 07:58 AM:

Hi Antonio and others. As they tell me in the megaplex the cp650 doesn´t switch automatically to EX.
Un saludo

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Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 01-28-2002, 02:09 PM:

Yes, you can tell by the movie's serial number printed on the disc. Four digits is a 5.1 disc and five digits is ES.

Karen at DTS

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 01-28-2002, 02:22 PM:

Miguel,

Another reason to buy DTS decoder...

Karen,

Fantastic!!! I didn't know.

Bye
Antonio

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 01-28-2002, 06:39 PM:

The 650 has the capability to auto detect. Some Dolby Digital Aurora tags have the coding on them but only the very new copies. Auto detect coding is being added to feature prints early this year.

Did you say that ALL screens in that complex had EX? Are you sure?

John

Posted by Miguel Angel Martorell (Member # 1110) on 01-28-2002, 08:27 PM:

Thanks Karen now we have to change the mind of our boss in order to buy the DTS ES adpater.

John, when I heard that for 1st time I didn´t belived. 24 screens all with THX and DD EX???, no way.
But the people there is very nice and I asked for a visit of the booth and I had to eat my words. The 24 screen are equipped with Dolby CP650 with EX adaptor (I don´t remember the model. DA10?? and a new THX net crossover (is that the name?)that I suppouse is the next model from the old fashioned black box that I have in my THX screen.
Cinemeccanica Victoria 5 and CNR 3-35 platters and Decatron built-in set rectifier, lamphouse and automation system.
The megaplex is called Kinepolis Paterna (www.kinepolis.com) and I have to recognize that if I had to pay to watch movies it will be my first choice but...they are the enemy.
Saludos

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Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 01-29-2002, 04:30 AM:

Miguel,

It is strange that at Kinepolis there are CP650+ SA-10 (the surround ex adapter from dolby) since CP650 has an add-on card to have EX.

DTS ES is better not only because it switches automatically in ES.
I heard that DTS-ES adaptor has two different equalization: one for "normal mode" and one for "ES mode". So maximum quality is offered for each show.

Dolby one is just an old CP45 refusbished. And has ony one equalization.

DTS is cheaper and, like dolby one, works with Dolby Digital and SDDS.

So, why I never saw any DTS-ES????

Bye
Antonio

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-29-2002, 04:35 AM:

Dolby SA10 works with dts and sdds too. That's nothing special.

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 01-29-2002, 02:14 PM:

Brad,

Isn't what I said?

Nothing special? I know a theater manager that buoght SA-10 for Star Wars and not DTS-ES because "there are more DD-ex title than DTS-ES ones".
Once I told him that he can have back surround with their SA-10 also with DTS sound and he told me "no, if I use sa-10 with DTS I'll never have the back surround".

Karen, I believe that DTS should advertise better their products...

Bye
Antonio

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 01-29-2002, 04:57 PM:

Do Dolby make a snipe that actually says 'EX'? I'd buy some of them for our two largest screens. Of course, Hoyts, Village and Greater Union in Sydney could too but that would be pointless...

they have NO EX. Not a single one in how many screens?

A lot anyway.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-29-2002, 05:30 PM:

Sorry Antonio, sometimes the language barrier can cause a little bit of confusion.

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 01-29-2002, 07:53 PM:

Miguel

If you already have a Dolby SA10, there is no need for a DTS-ES unit. They both do the same thing.

Karen at DTS

Posted by Miguel Angel Martorell (Member # 1110) on 01-29-2002, 08:29 PM:

Thanks Karen for the information but we don´t have the SA-10.

Antonio, now you put me in serious doubts but if my memory doesn´t lie me in Kinepolis there are CP650 (this is sure) with SA-10.

A curiosity. Today I´ve received Monsters INC. with its DTS, 5 digits in serial number so, ES disc and in the reel box #1 there was a red sticker that advertises the DD EX.

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Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 01-31-2002, 06:43 AM:

Brad,

No matter, it is my fault!!

Miguel, is it possibile that at Kinepolis they installed CP650 + SA-10 but it is not common!

Lice install a CP500 with an DA-20!

Bye
Antonio

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-03-2002, 12:35 PM:

Dolby does not make a snipe that specifically advertises Dolby Digital Surround EX. Neither does DTS with its ES format for that matter (and they don't have the special ES logo used on end credits either; sometimes I see DD-EX listed on end credits but that is rare). However, both the "Rain" and "Aurora" Dolby Digital trailers are optimized for Dolby Digital Surround EX. I think the new THX "Cavalcade" trailer is also mixed for DD-EX/DTS-ES matrix center surround.

Is DTS working on any new trailers? I'm kind of getting sick of the Sonic Landscape piano trailer. I even chapter past it on my DVDs (which is something I never did with the flying disc trailer). DTS needs to produce at least a couple more trailers with a higher level of excitement (not to mention have them optimized for use with DTS-ES).

Posted by Miguel Angel Martorell (Member # 1110) on 02-03-2002, 07:26 PM:

I´m agree with you. DTS needs new traylers. I know that a new trayler doesn´t improve the qualities of the product but sell it very well.
For instance, a friend of mine went to a THX cinema only for seeing the new THX trayler. Of course he saw the movie but the main reason was to see the trayler.
By the way, the cavalcade THX trayler is the one with sounds of storm and a kind of ball that explodes?.
Saludos.

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Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 02-04-2002, 05:37 AM:

Miguel,

Yes, Cavalcade is that one.
DTS trailer: I have to say that Dolby ones are better...
Flying Disk trailer is nothing special and not so impressive. Sonic Landscape is beautiful but nothing special...
I (Antonio) would like to see new DTS trailers, I ALWAYS put sound trailer before the movie, for my audience is the signal that the movie is starting. Having the automation raising the volume fader at the start of a sound trailer is so impressive.
I'll always remember when I saw "Matrix" in the best Italian Theater (Arcadia): trailers were projected at low volume and I was suspecting that someone has forget to set the proper volume (at that time I wasn't a projectionist).
Last trailer, the masking showed the bigger screen I never saw (30 meters) and the "TEX" trailer started.
Believe be: When "THX" has fall down I tought that the seats will unscrew...

However I believe that just few theater splice a sound trailer before the movie.

Karen, is something being prepared?

Bye
Antonio

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 02-04-2002, 06:58 PM:

Antonio,

I like THX trailers a lot!

As far as new DTS trailers, there is nothing in the works right now.

Karen at DTS

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 02-05-2002, 01:19 AM:

Bobby,

I believe Dolby did make an EX snipe because I have seen it. It ran before the movie " Bait ". ( Yes I know Bait isn't an EX title, but this was at a multiplex that is known for it's projection screw-ups )

It looks a lot like the " Rain " trailer except it comes up with " Introducing the latest in digital sound technology " then concludes with the Dolby Digital Surround EX logo and fades out like the Rain trailer if I'm not mistaken.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-05-2002, 08:52 PM:

If there is a "Rain" trailer specifically promoting Dolby Digital Surround EX, I've never seen it. The only "Rain" trailers I've seen in theaters look identical to the one on my Dolby Digital Demo DVD.

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 02-06-2002, 01:35 AM:

I've only seen it that one time. All other EX titles there isn't a trailer, or it's the Rain one.

Posted by Steven Privett (Member # 718) on 02-06-2002, 11:21 AM:

I enjoy all the Digital Tags that have come out, and feel good about adding them to the features. But sometimes I think the audience sees it as another trailer on a film that already has waaay too many.

so how do I go about getting a new cap? The one I have, (see model to the left), has seen better days.

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 02-07-2002, 04:28 AM:

Steven,

I don't think so.
Ok, there are a lot of stuff before the movie. But, at least at my theater, movie will start at the time scheduled so if you don't want to see that you can just come later...

However, I use to do the following: Cuf off tha trailers attacched to the movie, and move them to the Cinemeccanica's "Fuori Programma" so that I can project them at a lower volume and before the movie itself.
Then I have 15 seconds of black leader (to allow a fast "start and stop" if the situation requires it) and then the sound trailer, projected at the right volume.

So, imagine: Advertising, then trailers, then black.....
Then the DTS/Dolby trailer projected at 6/7 (depending on the movie).

For my audience the sound logo is like "Hey, the film is started".

I don't like some theaters that spice the movie directly on the last trailers/advertising so that you will ask yourself: "Is is another trailer? Is is the movie?".

Also when I was in a theater that didn't allow a "star and stop" I put a piece of black leader before movie...

Bye
Antonio

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-07-2002, 11:26 AM:

In the "flexibility of our academic environment," we can do some things a little bit nonstandard, so maybe this wouldn't fly in a commercial theatre. But we run a "Previews of Coming Attractions" datestrip, followed by all of our trailers, then an "Our Feature Presentation" datestrip, a DTS trailer (if applicable), and then the feature.

On those ocassions that we have shorts (wow, it's been a long time...), we run "Our Short Subject" and the short after the trailers are before "Our Feature Presentation".

--jhawk