Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Mixing IB Tech and regular reels?

This is topic Mixing IB Tech and regular reels? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003019

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 01-27-2002, 05:14 PM:

When I saw Gosford Park yesterday at the AMC Hamilton I noticed the print was a mix of IB Tech and regular reels. How could I tell? Thanks to Film-Tech it's easy: The cue marks -- black for regular and clear for IB Tech.

I came across a similar mix of IB Tech and regular reels when I saw Harry Potter at the Loews Kips Bay in NYC before Xmas.

Are the depots now mixing IB Tech and regular reels before sending a print to the theater? I assume it's the depots since this isn't limited to one studio.

Or could the regular reels be replacements for defective IB Tech reels?

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 01-27-2002, 09:34 PM:

I thought that the reel changes were green dots not clear. The print of Wizard of Oz that I screened was an IB print and the marks were green. Sometimes they will make those changeover marks clear in a dark scene. The true way to know for sure is by actually looking at the print. All the soundtracks will be black and white.

Posted by David Koegel (Member # 25) on 01-27-2002, 09:47 PM:

Charles -- I saw the same thing when I saw Harry Potter. I was excited when I saw the IB cue marks at one of the early reel changes, but then they were different for the next one reel change. It was a mix for the rest of the feature, which I was enjoying well enough that I was actually getting a little disturbed now that I had this distraction (which otherwise normally wouldn't have bothered me at all). Because they weren't the same throughout, I began to think that I was simply getting confused (still a possibility

). Thanks for confirming my sanity (which others might still debate

.)
-- David

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-27-2002, 09:53 PM:

Hand scribed cue marks do NOT mean they are IB prints...I highly doubt you would have a mixed print and the image quality between the reels should have been quite noticable.

If you had green cues (or the old star) then the IB print issue may have been valid.

Where were the white circle placements (actually they would have been oval)...a proper Scope cue is high on the screen (towards the top) and further towards the middle than a normal FLAT cue. If the white cue was way over to the right, then it was merely a hand scribed cue. If the reel in question was on a dark scene and the theatre had poor light on the screen, then the operator might have scribed the cue. Mind you, it could have happened at a previous theatre or screening.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 01-27-2002, 09:53 PM:

AFAIK *NEITHER* 'Harry Potter' nor 'Gosford Park' have had any dye-transfer (IB Tech) prints made.

What you likely were seeing is commonly called an 'EK Print' or 'Showprint' a print struck directly from the camera negative. The cues on these prints are almost always scribed in, therefore they would be white in color.

-Aaron

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-28-2002, 05:45 AM:

Didn't IBTech cues consist of the green circle but with a magenta outer ring that had sawtooth edges?

Posted by Gordon Bachlund (Member # 124) on 01-28-2002, 09:09 AM:

Frank, you are quite correct. You have described the cue marks that I have always seen in IB Technocolor prints.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-28-2002, 09:25 AM:

The type of cue mark is NOT a reliable indicator of a dye transfer print, although the "classic" Technicolor dye transfer cue marks were the green dot with the "sawtooth" circumference.

It would be highly unlikely to have mixed reels in a feature.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 01-28-2002, 06:17 PM:

Aaron S: Thanks for setting the record straight. I assumed no black dot/ellipse = IB Tech.

"Show prints" must obviously be for theaters with high gross potential, like the Loews Kips Bay and AMC Hamilton.

Steve G, John P: Reread my original post and Aaron S's reply. The print of Gosford Park running in the AMC Hamilton is a mix of regular and "show print" reels.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-28-2002, 09:30 PM:

To clarify, it would be unlikely to mix dye transfer reels with reels printed on regular (incorporated dye coupler technology) color print film.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-28-2002, 10:06 PM:

It is also very unlikely that there would be a mix of EK and non-EK reels within a print. EKs are very rare and are kept together. Furthermore, the image quality between an EK and a release print is night and day such that even the lay-person would notice the change.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"