I've just finished making up print number UK 20 of Apocalypse Now Redux, and some previous idiot decided to hack there own cue dots into the ends of the reels where they'd run changeover...

The bloody home made things are about the size of three sprocket holes!!!

'Homemade' cues have always been a pet hate, especially as I run both changeover and platter depending on which screen I'm using...

I wish those people who don't have a proper cue dot marker would refrain from hacking holes in prints, and put temporary dots on using wax pencil or other removeable media...

The print is on a platter at the moment, but will be transferred to 6000' reels for its last screening next week, and I just know that these bloody hacked in cues will be on the wrong reels (i.e. in the middle of my 6000'ers)

------------------
There must be more to life than Film and Rugby...

Gwan Glawster!!!
 

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
 

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Page 35

Theatre Cue Marker 35mm $58.00
70mm $58.00
Replacement Cue Marker scribes $30.00

I do agree all projectionist cue marks should be removable. The easiest way is just to lay a piece of Neumade clear splicing tape where the cue should go and place a tiny round sticker on top of it. That makes removing it easy and one frame is plenty to see the thing.
 

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
 

The old-timer who taught me told me not to whine about hard-to-see marks and pay attention ("They're supposed to be hard to see!") But if they were particularly dark, to only scribe over the first and third dot.

I notice some prints from overseas have very small dots; a German print had square "motor start" cues and round c/o cues. I ran a wonderfully photographed French film about birds that had no cues (someone drew ugly grease pencil slashes across the frame.)

I would imagine there are people who think by making the cues impossible to miss, think no one will miss the c/o. So they are using the right reasons to do the wrong thing.
 

The hand carved dots in this print of Apocalypse Now are about two feet across on the screen!!!

------------------
There must be more to life than Film and Rugby...

Gwan Glawster!!!
 

I use a Clint Phare cue marker. It's possible to make cues with this that are no more obtrusive than lab cues. It is the only acceptible way (to me) to make cues on existing prints. Hole-punchers are particularly bad offenders...
 

I ran a brand-new IB print of a 1952 film and noticed for the first time you can see the image through the serrated cue.
 

Another Bozo move I see often is a print where someone's cut in their own reel changes because they were too lazy to find the actual splices only to have the next dufus scribe/punch new cues on (usually 5 minutes before/after the real cues!) Ran a print of Apocolypse about 3 years ago that was nothing but shoe polish and c/o cues from one end to the other.
 

rant over
embarrassment
will do better in future


 

Uh oh, now you've done it! (I'm going to go hide before Steve shows up. )
 

I ended up adding a hand-made cue (w/ Clint Phare cue marker) 1 second from the end, but ultimately I'm not sure that was necessarily the right thing.

Choices seem to include:
a) It's not possible to have a perfect (cue at -8sec, cue at -1sec)
on this print, so no permanent cue marks should be made at all.
Use a temporary mechanism?
b) Make a permanent cue mark 1 second from the end, and expect
everyone to deal with the non-standard cue dot spacing (what I
did).
c) Make a permanent cue mark 1 second form the end, and 8 seconds
from the end, and assume that future changeover projectionists
will ignore the second set of cues (the lab cues), and not get
confused by the presence of 3 cue dots (I hate it when that
happens...)
d) Add an extra 2'10f of black at the end, and mark the cue dot
on that (at 1 second from the end).

In retrospect, perhaps d) might have been a better choice, because the scene was a fade to black anyhow (which is probably how it got short anyhow -- a careless job of plattering the print...), but it seems to have a significant chance of disrupting the experience, especially w/r/t the soundtrack.

I hadn't heard of the temporary adhesive dots that John Pytlack mentions before; perhaps that's something we should have in our booth. Is there a recommended vendor, or does one just use standard stickers available at a stationary store?

I suppose, even using adhesive dots, my inclination would be to leave them in place in a situation like this, since I would expect any changeover theatre would appreciate having the cues timed properly, and plattering theatres are unlikely to care. Though I suppose perhaps plattering theatres would like to avoid the disruption of presentation that spurrious cues might represent...
 

I would opt for using temporary cues, with a new motor cue and new changeover cue at the proper distance from the last frame before the tail. Be sure your tail leader is really BLACK, and in frame so you don't see white framelines, etc. if you mistime the changeover.

For review, here is the cue spacing per SMPTE 301:

Motor Cue
4 frames
Distance between Cues
172 frames
Changeover Cue
4 frames
Distance to Last Frame
18 frames
TOTAL LENGTH
198 FRAMES

Brad's recommendation of putting only one cue dot on a piece of removable splicing tape is viable, since a good projectionist WILL see a single frame cue if they know it will be so quick. The tiny Avery gummed dots are fine, or you could use one of the Letraset or Presstype dry tranfer decals (if you can still buy them):
http://www.internetmodeler.com/2001/november/new-releases/decals_AFT.htm
http://www.dotprint.com/profiles/letraset.htm

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Platters or big reels would be fine if the prints were delivered that way but for a screening room situation which is what I do as long as 20 minute reels are the rule I'll stick to changeovers, thankyouverymuch. With a late arriving print I can inspect one reel and be on screen in minutes--or if I have faith that the dots will be there--in seconds. And when the show is over the print can be in the hands of a waiting courier moments later. Makes life a lot easier when there are 15-20 different films to run in a week. Sadly, the vast majority of my work is not actually running the films but inspecting and repairing the damage done by the platter people (no Film-Tech-ers I'm sure!) Many of my prints are new or have only been screened reel to reel but no way to know until it's inspected.

It would be interesting to contemplate a world where all prints arrived in "Movie Movers" (tm) or similar and you would need only drop it on a platter and thread-up.

John Hawkinson wrote:
>I'm curious what people think about marking cue dots when a tail
>is cut short.

Well you pretty much have to add a new C/O cue unless you want to rely on the sound of the head splice of the new reel going through to know when to change to it. I would just scribe the dot as you did. As you say, that then leads to the question of whether to make a new motor dot or go with the non standard spacing and adjust thread-ups of subsequent reels. I've done it both ways (including leaving information for the next operator in the latter situation. Lately I've been leaning towards the former (new cue).
 

Instead of the Clint marker (which, as good as it is, doesn't make a cue as unobtrusive as a black dot lab cue), we have been using Letraset cues for years. They are still available, although more expensive than before the company lost business to computer graphics. Letraset's black dots come on a thin strip in a convenient dispenser and can be applied directly to the base of the film so that removing them doesn't risk scratching the emulsion. We had been talking to the company based in England on the possibility of printing the dots on the strip so that they would be correctly spaced for frame distance. You would then only have to orient the adhesive strip over the four frames and the cue dots would be spaced correctly. They could do this, but it wasn't cost effective. So, using their off-the-shelf product (the dots are spaced closely together), you need to place each dot correctly in the frame corner slice it off the roll with the razor blade. Once you get the knack of it, it's takes only a few seconds. The adhesive is quite aggressive and you don't need to cover the dots with splicing tape. They have never come off in everyday operation. U can use regular cleaners like FilmRenew or Ecco 1500 and unless you make it a point to rub them off, they will stay put.

We let the next platter house or LP reel projectionist decide if he wants to remove them. Point is, they will come off if you don't need them.

We also use Letraset's line graphic tape. It comes in very thin lines that are great to cover up those gashes in the emulsion -- I've even used it to black out those XXXs that show up as cues. The lines (called Border Tapes) come in a variety of thickness, one size is the exact width of the soundtrack and it is great for blooping out splices. You can also use this material to strengthen badly made splices that have a gap between frames -- you know, the ones made by incorrectly aligned splicers that don't cut EXACTLY in the center of the frame-line. You can place the black line tape over the gap and then put a piece of splicing tape over it. The splice won't then buckle or fan-fold and you don't have to loose any frames.

The last Letraset product that we use is their graduated film. This is a sheet of thin film that has a gray scale from totally black opaque to transparent. When you get an old trailer or even a print where the sound just cuts off because of missing footage, you can create your own fade by applying the graded strip over the film. This causes both a picture and sound fade-out. It's not the same as getting the footage back, but it sure makes the ending less abrupt.

If anyone wants the Letraset product numbers and the Letraset contact in England, just email me. CinemaDude@aol.com
 

Count the distance from the last frame on reel 1 back to the "motor" cue. I then took that number, made my "projector startup speed" calculation and noted with a piece of tape on the head of reel 2 what the thread up number was to be in the gate. Now I never actually placed "cues" on the print. My solution was to just go 1 second back from the final frame on that reel 1 and lay a piece of clear splicing tape down. The thin black horizontal splice lines were plenty for me to see and were nowhere near as obtrusive as a cue of any kind. When I finished with my last presentation, I simply unreeled the film a few feet and peeled off that piece of tape. This way I never had to put ANY marks on the film.