This is topic Century 3 blade shutter in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Randy Bowden (Member # 587) on 03-04-2002, 11:57 AM:
Does anyone know if there is a 3 blade shutter available for a Century Projector? If so where do I find one or better yet, two.Thanks
Randy
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 03-04-2002, 12:27 PM:
Three bladed shutter are a factory option, so I'd assume they are available as spare parts from Strong. I installed four with factory fitted three blade shutters three years ago in an art house venue. Just be aware that they do eat a wee bit of light, but it really isn't a lot. I feel the reduction in pan flicker is well worthile, you just have to compensate for the small reduction in light output.
Posted by Jon Bartow (Member # 241) on 03-04-2002, 01:42 PM:
I just looked through the current Strong Price lists and I did not see anywhere an option to buy a Century with a three-blade shutter. Only with the double shutter. I also looked through all of the Century manuals that I have, none of them list a three bladed shutter for a Century. I did find one for a Simplex (P-2885). I've never seen a three bladed shutter on a Century, although I've never done any work with Telecines or other "special" setups so I'm not exactly an authority.
Pete, do you know an option number for a three-bladed shutter?
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 03-04-2002, 02:40 PM:
Sorry I don't have any part numbers on this. I don't persoanlly deal with ordering equipment from suppliers, I'm strictly a nuts and bolts man, I leave pushing paper to the paper pushers! All I can tell you is that these 4 mechs had 3 blade shutters, definitely a factory fir, as I took them from their packing crates on site. They also have three lens turrets and 3 phase motors fitted too.
Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 03-04-2002, 03:03 PM:
When I was a chief projectionist at the Carlton Theatre Haymarket in the West End of London, the Westar (Century) projectors had double shutters with water cooled gates. I wonder if Century still have that system as an option ?
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 03-04-2002, 04:27 PM:
3 blade shutter is available as a part........call the factory if your dealer is unable to help.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 03-04-2002, 04:36 PM:
When I was doing service work I installed a 3-blade shutter for a screening room in Houston, Texas, it was pone blade with three 1" openings, we had to do this due to a small room (use to screen dailys from Hollywood on a movie being made in Houston) too much light (1600 watt) bulb, was causing a filcker....this solve the problem, this was a special blade made by MTS in the USA...they install screening rooms equiptment & such.....hope this help...
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-04-2002, 11:22 PM:
I have a pair of 3 blade shutters that will fit either Century C or SA, they will also go onto an E-7, or Super. If U get in a bind and can't find any let me know. I'll trade you this pair for a CP-200!Hey Don,
Was that pair of Centurys at a video/Post house run by a guy by the name of Bill Moore? If so I built those for them a number of years ago. These had the mag stuff built into the R-3. and three Kelmar arms on the bottom and so on.....There are 4 more pairs of them around the country still in steady use. A DP in Flordia owns 2 pair, I have one pair, and Steve K has a pair in Chicago. These setups have totaled close to 300 feature film jobs so far.
BTW: The name of my company was Midwest Theatre Supply out of Elgin, IL.
Mark @ GTS
mark@getgts.com
Posted by Randy Bowden (Member # 587) on 03-05-2002, 12:43 AM:
Thanks for the replies guys. I am the full time projector rebuilder here at American Cinema Equipment, we are a dealer so I will call Strong and See if they might happen to have what I need. Maybe Wolk.
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 03-05-2002, 02:37 AM:
Bernard,
Westar used a double shutter shutter shaft design, if I remember right they were opposed rotation too. AFAIK this has never been a Century option. Water cooled film trap was and is though. Remember that whilst the Westrex machine started as a near copy of the Century, it developed throughout it's 50 odd year production. There are quite a few way that the Westrex differed. Most obvious is the adjustable sprocket plate design, which Centurys never had, and still don't. The curent Simplex has something similar. Most Century parts will fit Westrex, but some will require minor machining work to get them to fit correctly. The vertical shaft sliding gear springs to mind.I must ask around and see if those mechs are still around, the double shutter Westar was a pretty rare beast. I have a pair on service up here, well one is used as a spare, but they've been converted to single shutter now. The shutter gear on the vertical shaft still carries two sets of teeth though.
Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 03-05-2002, 05:26 AM:
Mark, I can not remember the gentleman's name I talked too, it was about 5-6 years ago,I was contacted by Southwestern Theatre supply in Houston to go service these machines at a place called POV...they had just installed two machines, especially made by MTS, the install was just a couple of weeks to a month earlier...they had two Century SA, with three reels below the soundhead, one for the sound (I think it was 35mm mag)sound track, one reel for the take-up & one reel for the movie print take-up, with super Lumex lamps...the problem was three, one was the JBL speakers was too much for the small room room, I sugguest replacing with a high quality home stereo type speakers, which they did, It worked out great....the second problem was too much light, I change from a 2K to a 1,600 watt, that was better, but the light had too much flicker due to the size of the room, I contacted MTS about this was told to install three single blade shutters to get a 1 to 1.5" opening, I did, I got a 1" opening, this solve the flicker,I was told by MTS that this 3-single blades will cause the machine to vibrate (it did) but the flicker was gone... MTS told me they would make a special 3-blade shutter & will ship overnight, they did, I inswtalled, & it worked perfect...no more complaints...The name "MARK" rings a bell...maybe it was you....I was a self employed cinema sound contractor at that time living (& still do near Houston) was called to service these machines due to the location of MTS & time was important, all this took place within three days....I even met a few movie stars there !!!...any of this sound like you are the one I dealt with ??? If so, we do live in a small world !!!
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 03-05-2002, 09:23 AM:
alright you experts, can 3 bladed shutters be made for a brenkert? I noticed severe pan blur, plus I have light to burn. But would this cause excess wear of the shutter drive and lead to early failure? I do have an E-7 which if it didnt leak oil so bad, I would consider putting it into service with a 3 bladed shutter, plus they run quieter too 
Josh
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 03-05-2002, 10:19 AM:
Century also had the double shutter option....all away back to the C model ( CC ).
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-05-2002, 10:24 AM:
Don,
Yea, that was me, and I'm pretty sure that I do remember talking to you about it. Is POV still there? I remember the first dailies they screened there was that Shirley McClane comeback film...I think it was called Evening Star or something to that effect. There was also a huge factory right behind them that welds tank cars(railroad type) and that was also putting nasty spikes onto the power lines. I could actually see it if I put my scope on the AC. Originally they had bought High Reactance rectifiers and you should have seen the flicker with those! It was awful. Switching to switchers got rid of most of it at the time. If they're still there at least I know they're in good hands.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 03-05-2002, 11:29 AM:
Thanks Richard!My knowledge of the earlier Century machines is not as good as my knowledge of the Westrex mech. Stand to reason really, as most of the Centuries here are less than 20 years old, whereas some of the Westrex are pushing 50 years old!
Josh, I don't know anything aboout Brenkerts, but the Century 3 blade shutter is not really any different in weight to the twin blade, and the Century mech is not the heaviest design in the world, and doesn't seem to suffer any ills from having the 3 blade whirling bit on, as to getting one for your Brenkert, I guess you'd probably need to have one made or make it yourself, the Century one uses the same central boss as the 2 blade, and the blade itself is stamped out of thin metal, so I'm pretty sure that someone as capable as yourself wouldn't have too much trouble concocting something, surely?
Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 03-05-2002, 01:51 PM:
Josh, I see no reason why you couldn't make one. I think each blade segment should be of the same geometry as the existing blades, but on 120 degree axis instead of 180 degrees. I may tinker one together for my BX-40 this spring or summer.BTW: How's the oil that Paul gave you woring out in your Brenkerts?
Jeff
Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 03-05-2002, 03:42 PM:
Mark, Yea that's the place...I saw Jack Nicolson & Shirley Mcclane there everyday for a week while I was there working, the 3-blade shutter you made for the two Century machines worked prefect & was balance !! That was the first time I ever saw anything like that, I thought you guys were the greatest !! I called you on a Tuesday, & you made & ship the blades overnight to me, I installed it on Wed. the film director was amaze by our fast work, speaking of you (MTS) & me....they even treated me to dinner...so the three blade shutter worked great in that small screening room....one funny story then I close....the booth as you know was small where the projectors sat...I was trying to install the blades before the dalies was to be shown, Shirley McClane was in the booth preventing me from working, time was getting close to run the dalies, I was just about to ask her to leave the booth so I can work, just as I approched her, Jack Nicolson came in & said to her they are ready to shoot some photos, she thanked me & the staff for showing her the booth, I finish the work, all was good...to answer your question if POV is still there....I went back there to service about three more times that same year, I got out of contracting & went to work for the company I am with now....that has been about 5-6 years ago...so I don't know if the place is still there....I do remember the trains, I was stop only a block away from POV for almost 30 mins once waiting for the damn train to move....have a goodin !! don
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-05-2002, 07:38 PM:
Ah Yes, The Trains! I wonder how many a dailies session has been delayed due to the trains??? I had forgotten about that....
Mark
Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 03-05-2002, 07:40 PM:
Mark, I thought by the time we did those machines you'd switched from building them with multiple Kelmar arms and an adaptor bar to using a modified Slim Jim base. Aren't these the machines that went to P.O.V.?
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 03-05-2002, 11:58 PM:
Jeff;I'm not sure, I havent run out of brenkert oil yet. I would guess the only way to tell would be to switch oil, put about 100 hours on the head, then check the rundown time. I am pretty confident about using the stuff, I just havent had a chance to yet.
Josh
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-06-2002, 12:21 AM:
Steve,
Thats the pair that went down there. I had forgotten that they were built on pair of Slim-Jim bases. In fact, thats the only pair that was built that way. It still used the Kelmar feed and take up assemblys though. Man, those systems have literally done hundreds of dailies gigs! We know know of three of them still in constant use!!Randy, Josh, When I get back in SLC I'll make a drawing of the actual three bladed shutter I have and send it into Brad to post here. They are not hard to make.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 03-06-2002, 05:21 AM:
Hey STEVE....those are the ones !!! you guys did a wonderful job building those....I am glad I was on the service end to see these & worked on them....
Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 03-06-2002, 09:30 AM:
Mark gets most of the credit. I think we simultaneously hit on the idea of putting the R8* under a projector with arrangements for by-pass operation. My idea was the adaptor bar and multiple arms but the Slim Jim is really a cleaner design. Mark also gets credit for turning R3's into R8's.* (Mark, do you recall how we were looking at mounting a JJ on one with 35mm mag and 70mm print going over the same lower projector sprocket!?)*R8 was the Century soundhead reworked into a mag playback dummy for use with 3-D films and normally has a box containing a single sprocket atop it in place of a projector head. It's an excellent design with a full Davis Loop (mag head between two flywheels) and used in the way we did makes a much, much better interlock machine than the 5-Star-based unit that Strong sells.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-06-2002, 11:26 AM:
Yea we were going to put a JJ head on there for "Far And Away" Dailies. I think you even went so far as to quote Ron Howard a price on actually doing this. I don't remember why they didn't, perhaps they didn't screen actual 70mm dailies on that show. It was alot of work to convert an R-3 into an R-8 but it definately payed off. I think the conversions were actually better than the original units were.Steve also gets the credit for spurring me into building the VistaVision projector. A result of a great deal of "BackDraft" being shot in the VV format. The VV projector has seen extensive use on a number of films since it was completed. That was a year long project that involved having custom 32 tooth intermittent sprockets made. Photos on the picture page here on Film-Tech.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 03-06-2002, 01:42 PM:
Obviously in retrospect to run 70mm dailies a dubber is the way to go but the 35/70 interlock machine would have been pretty clever. Just a tiny pad roller or shoe reaching up into the middle of the sprocket to add security to the mag coming across and down (already under tension) while the 70mm picture goes more or less across. Naturally, 70mm dailies are not normally done (the 65mm neg is printed down to Scope 35) and they weren't on that show either although they did print some footage and, at least while in Montana, travel to whatever the nearest city was with a 70mm theatre and view it there MOS.
Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 03-08-2002, 04:32 PM:
Josh,
Apropos your "light to burn" comment about wanting to try a three blade shutter on a Brenkert, I received this reply from a friend of Robert Sprague:
"Dear Mr Cohen-
I vaguely remember John Carroll once telling me that
he solved the problem of a too intense light source.
similar to the problem your friend is experiencing by
putting a frame filled with several layers of window
screening between the arc and the head, this created
enough defusion to do the job. Now I suppose he was
talking about that old metal window screening , not
the plastic kind they have now. I am in regular
correspondence with Bob Sprague. He was quite ill last
two weeks and I am sure would appreciate even a short
note from you. He can be reached by telephone every
two weeks or so when he pulls a shift managing a
local homeless shelter there I will get you the
number. --Paul Pottash"
Gerard