This is topic Xenon Nut Was Overtightened in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-21-2002, 07:04 PM:
 
Things are coming along nicely, here. We just got in a fresh stock of Xenons and I've changed all except one. Is there a safe way to deal with an overtightened nut on a Xenon?

Some of these lamp houses have stickers stating that the lamp was last changed in 2000. Others have stickers that say the lamp was changed last month...but with used bulbs. One of them was quite dark and appeared to be a little mis-shaped. Therefore, I am assuming that all lamps are well past average lifespan. I'm considering them all extremely fragile and dangerous. This presents a problem with this overtightened lamp because I do not want to "wrangle" the lamp itself in trying to "twist" the thing loose.

The lamp in question is 2kW mounted horizontally in a Christie console.

WD-40 was suggested, but I thought I'd check for your feedback before dealing with this. Will this pose any danger to the electrical fittings? If I were to do this, should I mask off the surrounding areas?

I'm also told that the nut might actually be welded in place due to arc-ing if the connection was loose. What then?

------------------
And, hey! Let's be careful out there.

~Manny.
 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-21-2002, 07:16 PM:
 
DON'T use WD-40. In fact, throw that crap out of your booth!

If the nut is welded to the bulb, you might have to partially dismantle the yoke, remove it from the lamphouse, smash the bulb, and extract the parts you need to get back into operation.

But before you have to go to that extreme, I would recommend you wait for more input, as some others may have had the same problem, and there might be an easier fix.


 


Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-21-2002, 07:22 PM:
 
Manny,
Its probable that the nut has welded itself to the lamp. This is not an uncommon problem with Christie consoles if the nut, and or lock screw is not tightened down enough when the lamp is inastalled. They can literally weld themselves together sometimes.
Paul's fix is the correct and safe way if this is what has happened.

I just threw away a bottle of W-D 40 in a booth up here in Idaho
today!! Get rid of the stuff.

Mark @ GTS
www.getgts.com


 


Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-21-2002, 07:22 PM:
 
which nut is overtightend
If it is on the cable try using two wrenches one pushing against the other
If on the cathode vicegripes might help
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-21-2002, 07:27 PM:
 
Gordon, I can't remember....Is the lamp threaded into the yoke as well as the nut? Been 20 years since I changed a Christie lamphouse bulb. If he can't budge that thing with a vise grips, he may have to dismantle.....what do you think?

In any event, I think Manny should make sure he has adequate bulb changing safety equipment, a new pair of skivvies, and some very good luck!


 


Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-21-2002, 07:27 PM:
 
Gordon: It's the nut on the bulb itself. I think it's on the anode end...I always get them mixed up...the negative end.

This lamp is XM2000W-HTP by Perkin Elmer...there's only one end threaded.

------------------
And, hey! Let's be careful out there.

~Manny.


 


Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-21-2002, 07:38 PM:
 
The cathode end has a nut on it throught the yoke
Put a pair of channel locks on the cathode metal end (make sure maximum safety gear is worn) and a second pair on the nut
Turn the nut one till it frees up
You may have to sacrifice the lamp so put the kacket on the lamp first if possible some reflectors will allow it to be put on depending on the design
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-21-2002, 07:39 PM:
 
Manny, the negative end of the bulb is the cathode.

Also, try Gordon's method. I am sure he has done many of them that way. When you use a channel locks on the cathode end of the bulb, make sure you clomp the channel locks as close as possible to the end of the bulb prevent accidental depressurization/explosion by a fractured seal.


 


Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 03-21-2002, 08:52 PM:
 
If you can't get the jacket on and can't get the lamp out safely, you might try about a dozen layers of gaffer (duct) tape, then wrap it in newspaper. If I was fairly sure a bulb was going to blow on me, I'd want something like this in addition to flack jacket gloves and mask.

 
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-21-2002, 10:16 PM:
 
I think I'm going to pass on this and let the guy from Miami handle this problem. He should be here within a month.

I'll show him these notes, though. I'm sure that he'll find them helpful.

------------------
And, hey! Let's be careful out there.

~Manny.
 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-21-2002, 11:39 PM:
 
Sounds like a plan
 
Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 03-22-2002, 10:32 AM:
 
I have had the nut welded on before and the easiest thing I have done is just order a new one and replace the whole thing.

Paul.
 


Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-22-2002, 10:41 AM:
 
I dunno'... if it was me, I'd wrap the lamp up in several layers of cloth (like burlap bags) duct tape (gaffer's tape) the whole thing so it's proteted and then just take a hammer and bust the thing.

Get the worst of the danger done and out of the way so you can work on it without worry. The only thing to worry about would be glass shards, but if they stayed contained in the cloth "sack" you made there wouldn't be much to worry about. Just remove the sack of busted glass and tape over the sharp ends of the cathode.

You could work on it while it's inside the lamphouse that way. If you thought it would be better to disassemble the thing and work on it on a bench you could also do that a lot easier once the glass envelope is out of the way.
 


Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 03-22-2002, 11:47 AM:
 
By the sound of all this I'm glad I don't have to deal with any vertical Christie consoles!

What's with the downer on WD40?? I know people tend to use it as a lubricant, which it isn't. But if it's used correctly it's very useful stuff. That said there are better penetrating oils on the market, but as a water dispersant it's hard to beat. Although I've only once used it for that in a booth. Insides of a lamphouse where rainwater had run down the extract, made one hell of a mess! It's also useful for cleaing off greasy gunge and I've found it good at removing splcing tape goo from splicers too.
Do you guys remove ot from booths to stop people using it as oil? The number of things I've seen ruined by this stupid idea! Lubricating oil is just that, WD40 is WD40, NOT lubricating oil.
 


Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 03-22-2002, 11:59 AM:
 
No,,,the console is a horizontal model. The HTP type bulb is held in the rear by a combination support and power feed unit and the nut (sometimes used with a star washer - which creates other problems) has to be tight enough for D.C. current or it will weld itself....just like the clamps in a CX vertical Cinemeccanica which also like to do the same thing if not properly mounted....in some instances we applied silicon spray on the threads to lessen the welding of the nut to the threads.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-22-2002, 11:59 AM:
 
Pete:

WD-40 leaves a residue behind and over a short period of time, it gums up the works so it can't work unless you spray more on or in it. The more you use it, the more you have to use it. It does not belong in the booth. Too many people think it is a cure-all.

There are umpteen treads on this crap! It causes more problems than what it solves. Just simply throw it out.


 


Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 03-22-2002, 05:37 PM:
 
Doh! I read where he wrote 'horizontal' as vertical! Shows what the effects of all the stuff I'm taking for this bad cold I have right now are doing! If I can't even tell the difference between left to right and up and down, I did the right thing by not driving anyplace or working until I feel better.

Paul, I know it leaves a residue, that's what it's designed to do. The slightly oily residue was meant to be a preservative. But I can see that if you use it to unstick something, then fail to clean it off and lubricate properly you could end up with a sticky mess. Like the countless blower motors I've replaced because somebody 'oiled' them with WD40! It does have it's engineering uses, but unfortunately it seems many people don't use it as it was designed to be used. That is partially the fault of the makers these days, they seem to market it as a 'cure all'. Which it isn't. It makes a useful cutting lubricant if there's no proper stuff to hand.
 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-23-2002, 12:57 AM:
 
Pete:

I have seen more parts rendered useless with the use of WD-40. But rather to go into it, may I suggest you analyze the previous treads about that stuff? Thanks.


 


Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-23-2002, 02:52 AM:
 
If anyone needs a Christie 4.2kw verticle lamphouse let me know. I rescued one from our dreaded shed when we were moving. The split mirrors are all intact. Its in really good shape and I couldn't bear to throw it away. Perhaps the Simthsonian.....Its too big for a doorstop....
Mark @ GTS
www.getgts.com


 


Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-28-2002, 12:15 PM:
 
Just got the phone call...

That xenon lamp...the one that was welded in place...it exploded this morning during threading.

I'm glad I left that one alone. I had a bad feeling about it. Many thanks also to those of you who (privately) advised/encouraged me to err on the side of caution when dealing with this lamp. I had ultimately decided to leave this one for our technician from Miami, who has tons more experience than I do, and who was due to come over very soon. Alas, he was not called in yet because they are still awaiting parts he will need for other machines.

I'm getting ready to go out and take a look at the damage to the reflector. I may have a spare one on-site.

Any tips on handling the larger glass fragments?

------------------
And, hey! Let's be careful out there.

~Manny.


 


Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-28-2002, 12:32 PM:
 
This sounds like a sick thing to say but sometimes one is better off in just standing back, throwing up the hands and saying, "I told you so..."

It's sad to say but some people just won't listen to reason and have to find out the hard way that what you say is true. You just have to make sure that you cover your ass and somehow document that you told the manager (or whomever) that you said the lamp needed to be dealt with.

After one or two times of this they ought to start listening to you when you say something needs to be fixed. It's just too bad that there has to be a disaster or two before they start to get the idea.
 


Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-28-2002, 12:36 PM:
 
As they say "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink"

 




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