Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Theatre in ARK. equipped with 10.2 channel audio?

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Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 04-01-2002, 09:17 AM:

I remember seeing this article last month on Tech TV.
It mentioned something about a 10.2 channel audio system. Even though it did not show it,it mentioned that a theatre in Arkansas is using a cinema version of this 10.2 channel audio system. How many speakers is 10.2 channel audio compared to 6 speakers for 5.1 channel audio? Would that mean having both SDDS & Dolby digital
swiched in & playing at the same time?

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 04-01-2002, 09:23 AM:

I have read somewhere about something like this. From what I remember, the first 5.1 is standardized sound and the other 5.1 is for surrounds and other special effects. From what I remember reading it was supposed to be a DTS only thing. As far as if this is in an actual theater I am not sure about. Sounded more like an on paper experiment or in a lab situation to me.

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 04-01-2002, 11:54 AM:

We have a new player coming out that can be 10 channels. Right now, no one is mixing for this format so the speaker configuration has not been determined.

More information on the new system will be given on our web site sometime in June 2002.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 04-01-2002, 12:26 PM:

10.2 sound is something that Tomlinson Holman has been working on for awhile. There is some spotty info at his company website:
www.tmhlabs.com

The Arkansas reference probably refers to this from http://imsc.usc.edu/about/news/holman/holman.html

For more than 20 years, Prof. Holman has been involved in research in cinema sound systems, including a two-week stint in a multiplex theater in Arkansas during his sabbatical last year, which has resulted in new findings affecting sound systems and acoustics of the latest, stadium-seating theater designs. He is founding editor of Surround Professional magazine, and author of "Sound for Film and Television" and "5.1 Surround Sound Up and Running."

(Google is a wonderful thing!)

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-01-2002, 12:44 PM:

More links:
http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/surround2001/technology/page_11.shtml
http://www.techtv.com/print/story/0,23102,3307106,00.html
http://www.arch.usyd.edu.au/nwfa/Holman.pdf
http://www.prosoundnews.com/stories/2002/january/0114/0114.1.shtml

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-01-2002, 08:37 PM:

Now if we could only get people to grow two or three more sets of ears......

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-01-2002, 10:03 PM:

What will it take for 10.2 Surround to get off the ground? An actual theatrical release with 10.2 Surround featured in at least a few flagship class theaters. And it has to be an event picture that many people want to see.

A theatrical 10.2 release would make the format legit. With no films supporting it, it just remains as a curious footnote on what we could see in future surround formats. I'm sure it would cost a decent amount of extra money to create a 10.2 mix. It would not be hard to implement it in a movie theater. Just double up audio booth rack hardware, such as using 2 DTS or Dolby Digital players to divide the 10.2 channels into two sets of 5.1.

A critical problem would have to be solved concerning an official speaker layout. There is general agreement on having five full bandwidth stage channels and two low bass channels (making up the ".2" part). The situation gets fuzzy concerning the surrounds. It seems like only 3 surround channels are used along the walls (right, left and back wall surround). That leaves two more channels to be used for other effects like ceiling surrounds. But I think many theater operators (as well as many home theater fans) might find installation of ceiling surrounds impractical. Commercial installations have the added problem of getting around all the air conditioning and having a ceiling strong enough to hold speaker enclosures directly over the heads of the audience. A typical light drop ceiling may not be sturdy enough.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-02-2002, 10:53 AM:

DTS might not have much of a problem, but Dolby? Trying to DOUBLE the amount of full bandwidth channels in the same limited film geography that they have already fully comsumed? What in the world will the compression ratio look like or sound like with these limitations. Sony might be able to do it without too much trouble as they already have the capability of 8 full bandwidth channels.

Like anything else in this business, you would have to convince the exhibitors that it is something that will woo the public and substantially increase ticket sales. Given the economic state of the chains at this particular point in time, it seems like a long shot.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-02-2002, 04:11 PM:

Dolby DOES have that last bit of real estate left on the print to snatch up, and conveniently it is opposite their current location...the inboard sprockets. Although dts is clearly the ideal format to do this, it could be done. Will it? Nope. SDDS is still having trouble getting it's 8 channel mixes to catch on and theater exhibitors are not going to spend the extra bucks to make it worthwhile to the studios.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 04-02-2002, 08:13 PM:

"SDDS is still having trouble getting it's 8 channel mixes to catch on..."

I agree. And even with some 8-channel mixes, it seems like all they do is take the 5.1 mix and just throw a few effects in the Le and Re so you hear them.

I'm still hopeful, though. I'm trying to continue a plan to upgrade some of our theaters with large screens to 8-channel SDDS, with SR-D backup. Already have the Sony processors in place, just have to add Le and Re. Of course, managment is worried about SDDS, so getting funds is sometimes tough.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-02-2002, 08:33 PM:

Actually the other perf area is used by the labs to print data for matching and other pureposes.
I think the E cinema will catch on long before a 10 channel sound system ever will

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-03-2002, 11:59 AM:

Now Gordon, that's a substantial leap...,let's not be hasty. Besides, the same reason exhibs won't jump at the idea of yet another sound format (look how long it took them just to go to SVA stereo) applies to Eek-cinema. No audience understanding of it or demand for it so there isn't any guarantee it will do anything to raise the body count at the BO. And that's what drives EVERYTHING an exhib thinks and breaths. The only other thing that might propel DLP penetration would be, besides distribution GIVING the projectors away (oh, sorry, Technicolor did that already....didn't work), would be if the distribs would say, hey, we are saving umpteen million a year on print costs (that's the poopular misconception at the moment) that from now on, we'll be doing 60/40 deals for the first four weeks on even our biggest releases. Of course, I have to pause here to catch my breath from rolling on the floor laughing at that concept.

Technology is only half this business -- many a workable, fine technology (much better that DLP, for that matter) can only be found in the Museum of Failed Gizzmos or on the dusty pages of old SMPTE Journals (and John P. can probably rattle half a dozen right off the top of his head, plus their URL reference).

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-03-2002, 12:11 PM:

Marty Hart calls them "Mayflies":
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/mayflies.htm

But even widescreen formats that are no longer being used for production have left their legacy in today's popular "scope" format:
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/lobby.htm

Likewise, Fantasound, Perspectasound,4-track mag, Quintaphonic, and Cinema Digital Sound paved the way for today's multichannel digital sound systems:
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/sound/Fantasound3.htm
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/sound/sound04.htm