This is topic Dolby CP500 / CP650 Amnesia! in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 04-10-2002, 02:42 PM:
Lately I've had one CP500 and no less than three CP650 develop sudden 'settings amnesia'. All three have returned to factory settings when powered on. In the case of the CP500, unfortunately the site had lost the floppy I gave them with the .dmp files on 
Two of the CP650 are on one site, and I have .dby files for them, the thrid CP650 is in another site, too far to drive to simply upload setting, so I emailed them to the manager there (something of a computer boffin) and with some voice instruction he re loaded the CP650.Question; What the hell is going on?? What can be done about it??
Dolby UK told me that they did not know the precise cause of this, but it was believed to be caused by dirty mains. Come on, they ough to know by now that line conditions in the booth can be less than ideal, with rectifiers, ignitors, motors etc, nto to mention all the HVAC and refrigeration in your averge cinema building. Surely they can design the things to be little more robust?
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-10-2002, 03:32 PM:
I always recommend having a surge supressor/noise filter on the sound processor power.The CP-500 dumping is a bit more common. I hadn't heard of a CP-650 doing it. The CP-500 is more prone on firmware 1.50 and later.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 04-10-2002, 03:51 PM:
The racks we build have line conditioners, surge suppression and in some locations, UPS supplies.....Dolby is planning a software upgrade soon.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 04-10-2002, 04:41 PM:
In my experience, and that drawn from talking to colleagues, it would appear that we're seeing this more with CP650. I personally am aware of 3 CP500 doing this, one on my patch, I've got 3 CP650 on my patch alone that have done this. Talking to a friend from another company, I was given the impression that this has become something quite regular with the 650.So it looks like I'm going to have to start fitting line conditioners for the CP650 and retro fit for the CP500. Yet more expense for the customer. Are we talking about a single unit for the CP alone, or the whole rack? One big enough to handle the amps, cross overs, monitors, non sync, DTS etc is going to cost £££!
As we're talking about flash ROM being wiped by dirty power, I'm having some trouble understanding how the OS version afects it. I'll take you guys word on this though.
Tomorrow I have a 4 hour round trip to re load one of these forgetfull CP650. That's a lot of fuel for about 1 minutes work.
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 04-10-2002, 05:01 PM:
Pete,
we generally protect the CP / Crossover / Monitor. We do primarily export and have different electrical schemes for different markets. The CP650 is going through some "teething" pains almost identical to the first year of the CP500.....we have seen amnesia, data display problems and other gremlins....it is nice that Dolby has a great RXO department and engineers that you can rant to.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-10-2002, 05:06 PM:
Hmm...maybe Dolby should consider using some sort of removable media (probably a PCMCIA flash card) to allow theatres to store and recall their CP500/CP650 settings without needing a laptop or tech.The whole complexity vs. reliability thing is, of course, a double-edged sword, but the CP500 (I haven't seen the 650) does have a number of nice features for an automated theatre that just don't exist in the CP65/DA20 combination.
Posted by Barry Hans (Member # 477) on 04-10-2002, 05:10 PM:
Pete, why not leave the units powered up all the time or at least untill you get the problem resolved? I never shut my rack off outside of servicing it ( got that idea from the Imax sound guys )
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-10-2002, 05:36 PM:
Peter,
I have had this problem many times with the 500. Seems related to the software issue that showed up for surround ES. I can't recall earlier issues of software doing this, and I have installed ALOT of 500's. For the most part I have pretty much stopped using any digital based processors for this very reason. It causes a ton of frustration for the client, and Its always the processor farthest away that has this problem. Whats worse on the 500 when this happens you have no sound at all, not even in bypass!! The best cure is not a surge eliminator but a UPS so the 500's are never shut down, many UPS supplies also ahve surge protection built into them as a matter of factly. This was done at Dolby's reccommendation and at one location we have not had any recurrance, the processors have now been powered up for over a year straight. Its an easy 60 second reload to install the settings back in once you have traveled the 500 miles to get to the ailing CP500 and plug in your 500mhz laptop to reload it all ! I even trained one customer on how to reload the data himself. As far as the 650 goes I can guarantee you that I won't be finding out about its software/stability issues as I would not sell one. There are still far better processors on the market to install, sure they cost a bit more, but then you gets what you pays for.Scott, The flashcard idea is a very good one and has been in use in the lighting industry for well over a decade now. Its so simple its really stupid.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-10-2002, 09:59 PM:
Scott,Dolby going one better (as are many digital things) they have an Ethernet port on the CP-650...just put in on the net and reload it!
Other than the aforementioned 6 out of 8 CP-500s, none of our Digitally based Dolby processors have had any brain dumps. As I said, they all are protected with a Tripplite power strip (IBAR-12 or LCR-2400)...this provides not only the surge supression but at least 12 handy outlets with two in front to plug your test equipment into. They also provide insurance to the equipment plugged into it.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 04-11-2002, 03:05 AM:
I understood that the Ethernet port doesn't work, like the digital accesory rack connector on the CP500 never did either. I've always been told by Dolby not to bother with it as it doesn't do anything.If the ethernet port does work, what can I do with it? Surely I can't connect the setup software to it, as it's serial based? When I'm near one later today I'll try a patch and a cross over cable and let ethereal have a sniff at what happening on the port.
Personally I've got no problem leaving the power connected 24/7, however operators won't do this as it runs up the electricity bill (every little counts) and a lot of people are convinced that the thing will burst into flames. I've that happen to a couple of CP55! There may also be local codes on isolating equipment when not in use to contend with too.
How about powering off the CP650, but leaving power connected, putting it in bypass in other words?
Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 04-11-2002, 02:04 PM:
I had two CP-650 to lose all data settings here in Japan, after reinstalling the saved setting from a floppy disk, no more problems, I now leave a floppy disk with all screen's settings with the projection manager in case this ever happen again, but to know why this happen...I haven't a clue !! But ever uploading the screen settings, all is working normal....
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 07-15-2003, 04:07 PM:
Bumping this up to repeat the question:
If the Ethernet port really does work on the CP650 then what can I do with it?
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-15-2003, 06:56 PM:
Don by nature digital is suposed to loose data on a regular basis just wait til we get DLP machine lossing odd reels ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Larry Zuverink (Member # 1483) on 07-16-2003, 10:55 AM:
Pete,
From what I understand this problem showed up in ver 1.61 on the 500. I was told by Dolby that it is a software problem but they have not found the problem. I heard it was going to be addressed in the software that should be out next month. You can call Lonnie Jennings at the California office. He is very knowledgeable on all the CP's.
Posted by David Graham Rose (Member # 1450) on 07-17-2003, 02:33 PM:
Greetings from down South, here in Cambridge;
In an earlier post, Peter wrote;
"Tomorrow I have a 4 hour round trip to re load one of these forgetfull CP650. That's a lot of fuel for about 1 minutes work."
Well, the answer to this, and to justify the fuel costs, (which may probably be offset against tax) is to re-eq the auditorium, re-do the A-chain and slit loss, re-set the delays etc, rather than uploading from the laptop, which to my mind is cheating. To make life a little more interesting, why not leave the laptop at home completely, and complete the theatre alignment via the CP650's front panel? This in itself will turn what was previously a 1 minute sprint into a 4 or 5 hour marathon.
My former Senior Researcher, Dr. Peter Thistleton, who has since defected to another Department, here in Cambridge, came up with the reknown Universal Processor Alignment System (ref. 1), used by many of the foremost Cinema Engineers in the UK. This system used a formally disused CP200, (with full Acc. Rack).
All outputs from the CP were fed in to a DAC within the UPAS, which in turn monitored the various adjustements available on the processor. The UPAS, then cunningly converted these signals into data, which was in turn fed to the CP650 via a serial data output.
Thus, to align a CP650, one merely performed a standard alignment from within the CP200 (and SA10, should EX have been installed), and the information was then dumped via the UPAS to the CP650.
This unit was developed by my department, in response to the ageing population of experienced Cinema Engineers, here in the UK. The UPAS primarily removed the neccessity of the ageing engineer to come to terms with modern technology and the need to be computer literate.
Before his departure, Peter donated our only prototype to one of the leading UK cinema chains in an effort to prolong the working life of the company engineers.
When next, the IT department return my scanner and digital camera from the repair division, I shall post images of the UPAS in use, along with a photograph of the (heavily) modified backplane.
*ref 1. 'A Subjective Approach to IT and Theatre Engineers', Thistleton, Rose, Anthony et al, Acta Cinematografia, Vol. 52, p. 23-36.
also see 'Solutions To The Incumbent Threat of IT In The Projection Suite', Thistleton, Munday, Elliott and Rait, Acta Cinematografia, Vol54, p. 101-103
From Cambridge, I bid you all a good night.
David
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-17-2003, 07:33 PM:
sounds like overkill do the alignment and save it to disk
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-20-2003, 02:57 PM:
"I always recommend having a surge supressor/noise filter on the sound processor power."
_________________________________________________________________
Actually having these on all the booth main panels first is the best approach in any booth. It is standard in all of our new installs. Not letting noise and spikes anywhere into the system in the first place works far better than most local supression will. Adding anything after the main supressors will certainly be of some benefit from locally generated noises getting back into sound rack and automation circuits, and other things.
At one site that has a 15/70 theatre without supressors on the mains and an 8 plex 250 feet away that had supressors the 15/70 theatre suffered major problems from power bumps on day while I was present while the 8 plex hardly even blinked. The 15/70 theatre has since installed the same but larger supressors as well as full size APU backups capable of running the entire 3D system.
Mark @ CLACO