This is topic Basement Out, Penthouse In in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Manuel Francisco Valencia (Member # 710) on 04-15-2002, 09:59 PM:
We finally got rid of the shitty basement readers at our theatre and installed USL DSTR-20 readers. This is the first time in a long time that we finally got SR-D going again. I tried all ways possible to get those basement readers tracking but they just didn't want to work. The new readers are tracking great. I am getting consistent 1.'s and 1's on Frailty and a 0. on occasion. But I had a problem woth one last night. On the last show of Panic Room the dolby cut out at the beginning of the movie. Upon arriving at the projector I saw that the DA20 was showing no data present. I looked at the reader and the LED was out and the status light turned red indicating that it was time for service. I thought this was a fluke being that we just got these. Today everything was working fine. This movie has been tracking poor numbers, usually a 5. Any opinions on what happened.
Posted by Manuel Francisco Valencia (Member # 710) on 04-15-2002, 10:28 PM:
My mistake. B.A.C.P. readers. There is a photo of them in the Showest preview.
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 04-16-2002, 05:41 PM:
Call Sam Shavez of Bay Area Cinema Products.He made them and he will want to hear about any failers of any kind.
925.372.7603 Phone
925.372.7658 Fax
bacp2000@aol.com email (Not the best option with him.)
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-16-2002, 06:03 PM:
Out of curiousity: what type of basement readers did you have and what was wrong with them?I'm familiar with the ones made by Cinemeccanica for V-5 soundheads (these use the slide-projector-type bulb that the cat. 699 and cat. 700 penthouses use) and the ones from Component Engineering made for Simplex soundheads (these use red LEDs). Both work, although the CE/Simplex version seems to have consistently lower error counts and fewer dropouts. I don't know whether the difference is related to the design of the reader or the design of the soundhead into which the reader is installed. I still prefer the cat. 700 penthouse (I haven't used the 701 or the USL models), though.
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 04-16-2002, 07:59 PM:
Well, I dislike basement readers also. I know of two screening rooms they were removed from and replaced with penthouse types.I know Steve G. thinks they're OK, but it seems to take an expert like him to make them work. If I had four more Steves near all of our theaters, perhaps I'd like them better. 
As a side note, remember those Component Engineering basement readers made for Simplex 5-Star soundheads? They had a funky "light-pipe" that curved around a roller. If you buy a CE LED replacement and send them that light-pipe thing, CE may rebate you a few dollars.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-16-2002, 08:24 PM:
I also am a big fan of basement readers. yes, with certain blue colored projectors it is hopeless but then so is the rest of the machine. I've had great luck with basement readers in both Century and Simplex machines. Never much problem and always low error rates too. Perhaps a digit higher than a penthouse but still very worthy. Most of the problem with poor SRD tracking lays in a given sound head and not in the basement design. Later pickups now utilize faster optics so longer LED life will be realized too. Although i love the new BCAP penthouse I find that it still can leave a threading mistake waiting to happen while basement readers completely eliminate this problem. Mainly that of remembering to get the loop tight. many don't have a clue and or cannot remember about this so por SRD performance is still realized from penthouse users on occasion.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Barry Hans (Member # 477) on 04-16-2002, 09:19 PM:
I am very interested in this topic being we may be getting a digital set up soon ( may- being the key word!) I have done installs with penthouse readers but not basement readers. I have heard nothing negitive about the basement readers until this thread. What's the consensus on Kelmar vs. Component basement readers? I also heard the older white light setups are the way to go ?
Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 04-17-2002, 09:23 AM:
CE's filtered white light/infrared basement units have been out of production for a zillion years although no doubt they still have some parts for them laying around if you really want one------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/
Posted by Clint Koch (Member # 1179) on 04-17-2002, 05:10 PM:
Who did you purchase the unit from? BACP? USL, Inc. manufactures these and BACP markets them. You may get technical help from USL as well as BACP. The USL web-site is www.uslinc.com
Phone numbers, e-mails and contacts are listed on the site.
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 04-17-2002, 08:02 PM:
Welcome to the forums, Clint! -Aaron
Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 04-17-2002, 09:13 PM:
Kinoton projectors come standard with their own basement readers, and these work very well indeed. Like any reader, they need attention and maintenance but the results are as good as any other reader I've used, including Cat 699 and 700.
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-17-2002, 10:28 PM:
If the technician does the work to make a basement reader reliable, then the analog portion of the soundhead also is improved. I have some pretty important screening rooms on basement readers and have NEVER had a problem as a result. In fact, I've had to service the penthouses much more due to: burned up molex connectors (Cat. 700), broken "omega spring", broken stop pin for pad roller (must be gorillas operating these things though the Uptown currently has one broken stop pin as well) and I have witness several operators just not "get" the penthouse threading despite their near foolproofness...fools are just to creative! The tensioners are spread all of the way out or are touching...<sigh>As to the old style readers with the light pipe...there is no good reason to change them out. The EPT lamp is far cheaper to replace than the red LED and is operator changable (they get lots of practice with the slide projectors). Furthermore, the CCD imagers used for Dolby Digital prefer the white light over the red, thems the facts.
Steve
------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 04-17-2002, 11:30 PM:
Yes I agree with Michael Barry, We have Kinoton FP50D's with the Kinoton Basement readers and I find them to be excellent,Had a few probs with some of them first with drop outs but after some realighnment work done on them 18 months ago they are going very well, some of them according to our records are just about to hit 10,000 hrs and still giveing excellent results even with recon prints.
I prefer them to the Cat 700.Ive always prefered Kinoton equipment they put out a first class product, as the saying goes you've tried the rest now try the best.Steve 
Posted by Clint Koch (Member # 1179) on 04-18-2002, 11:50 AM:
Thanks Aaron.
Manuel, have you gotten a hold of Sam? If not give us a call to discuss this.
Clint Koch
Posted by Manuel Francisco Valencia (Member # 710) on 04-18-2002, 03:56 PM:
You think that if a really good tech installed your readers for you they wouldn't leave a FREAKIN loose connection! Man was that 
To answer Scoot I must quote Mark-"yes with certain blue colored projectors it is hopeless," that should give you guys a clue. I remember Brad saying he was traking consistent 3's with these. That is the best I ever heard. One thing about these new readers though is that they are preety loud. Louder thatn the projector.
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 04-19-2002, 12:26 AM:
We where one of the early users of this penthouse...the only one that had service problems was caused by my usual very careful tech ( who has had many beers with Sam @ BACP ) and a loose connection.....just did a field check on the first units installed in December = zero problems. They must be selling well since they asked to delay a stocking shipment to us to fill other orders.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 04-19-2002, 03:17 AM:
I wonder what the cost of one of these here in the Uk would be compared with a Cat 701 is?? That said I'm pretty happy with the latest 701 that has the newer type large (faster) lens. One of my sites was doing interlock, mech 1 has a new type 701, mech 2 has the older type (Bought at the same time, huh??!). Anyroad the same print was giving consistently better results mech 2. Not that 1 was bad, 2 was just better, error rate lower by 1-1.5, which meant that print was running at 1 or 1., which aint bad at all.
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 04-19-2002, 08:45 AM:
The price of the BACP unit is based on quanity sales to the dealer...the same as Dolby products. The final street price street price is basically around the average wholesale price of a CAT 701....which makes it very competitive. There are negotiations with Dolby to obtain a license ( to get the logo on the product ) which may drive up the cost on future production runs.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre and Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com