This is topic Broken reels -> DTS wheels in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 04-24-2002, 04:19 PM:
 
I thought Film-Tech might be interested in my startling new innovation . Lately, we've had a larger incidence of both broken plastic reels, and prints arriving with DTS discs (in jewel cases) just tossed in the cans, with no protective wheel.

But there's a bright side to this story!

Just take a broken plastic reel and break off the center protrusions, so it's a flat disc. Then take two and place them against each other, and then tape them together at the edge in 4 places. Slide the DTS disc jewel cases inbetween and presto!

--jhawk
 


Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-24-2002, 04:45 PM:
 
JHawk wrote: "Lately, we've had a larger incidence of both broken plastic reels, and prints arriving with DTS discs (in jewel cases) just tossed in the cans, with no protective wheel."

These kinds of problems were discussed at the Inter-Society meeting held at ShoWest. If you "band-aid" the problems and don't report them, they won't be fixed. Take some photos of the way the print and discs were shipped and report them to the exchange and to the distributor (who actually "owns" the print). Provide details including theatre, play dates, title, and print number, and whether the poor shipping caused any film/disc damage.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


 


Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 04-24-2002, 05:14 PM:
 
Agreed, John.

Though as a non-theatrical venue (aka bottom of the food chain), this is a lot more difficult since the system is engineered to prevent us from having any direct contact with the studios (instead we have to funnel all of our interactions through Swank, which is at best a lossy communications path). As such, I prefer to hold out the direct contact cards for real emergencies, because I can only take so much being yelled at.

Those of you who have real contact with your studio buyer/bookers should cherish it, and certainly report this sort of thing.

Still, I will go and report it to TES (as the exchange in question), since that's easy to do, though I don't have high-hopes that such a report will produce anything useful.

For what it's worth, this sort of thing happens all too often at the end of the first run; on our print of Harry Potter this month, our ETS delivery folks reported that they had to go through twenty prints of the movie in order to find one set of DTS discs. (Now, perhaps they really only went through 20 cans, i.e. 20/3==7 prints, but either way it's an alarming statistic.)

--jhawk


 


Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-24-2002, 05:24 PM:
 
If the ETS depot would just stop throwing the discs straight into the cans without the protective carrier, a lot of this would be put to an end right there. Most of the time I open up the cans and say "damnit, they forgot the discs!" Once I pull the reels out I see the discs at the bottom of the cans, crushed by the reels during shipment. What makes it worse is those paper thin plastic "jewel cases" they are packaging the discs in nowadays. They are so thin that they promote the use of just cramming them into the cans, where they frequently get cracked.

Suddenly it's cdrom burning time with the theater in the next town!


 


Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-24-2002, 05:52 PM:
 
The problem might be that theatres aren't returning the DTS shipping "frisbees."

I've stacked up many, many of them at just one site here and I'm sure there's going to be a matching stack at the other site.

I'm told that part of the problem is that the disks ship out in separate boxes and the frisbees won't fit in the cans, so they have to send the disks back "naked" (i.e. without putting them in the frisbee).

Anyway...I sent an email to Karen asking her if there's a special place to send them. I've already ordered boxes so they can be packed for shipping.

------------------
And, hey! Let's be careful out there.

~Manny.
 


Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 04-24-2002, 09:20 PM:
 
Maybe in these days of high-speed internet connections and cd-writers, DTS could offer the files for download. I donīt know if there would be copyright problems with that, but it would certainly help the format.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-24-2002, 09:43 PM:
 
It's already been discussed and I've offered many times to host the files for free, but to date no studio has shown the slightest bit of interest.
 
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-24-2002, 10:08 PM:
 
Since when has ETS been tossing the DTS disks into the cans without the circular holder thingie? I've seen this with used prints, but haven't had any issues with new prints shipped from the ETS depot in Salem, MA. Maybe different ETS depots have different policies or something.

(And, yes, I _always_ ship out prints with DTS disks packed as they arrived.)
 


Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 04-24-2002, 10:20 PM:
 
ETS in Salem will give you the discs tossed in if:

The key element here is "the previous folks who had the print screwed up."

If you're always handling new prints, I suspect you'll never see an issue. I'm sure Brad has a different story to tell though...

--jhawk
 


Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-24-2002, 11:52 PM:
 
Oh no John, actually getting the discs has never been an issue. The only issue is that ETS Dallas generally does not use the large reel-sized caddy. Because of this and the new super slim cd jewel box design, the discs commonly arrive broken and projectionists around town have to get together and dupe stuff back and forth for each other. Maybe this is just a Dallas thing.

As for second run, I have no idea how things are in Dallas.
 


Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-25-2002, 06:18 AM:
 
I still don't understand how they wind up with the thin DTS reel being jammed into a can that is not designed for the extra width, that, or the opposite -- it winds up in a can that has one less film reel than it was designed to hold, so the thin DTS disc caddy floats around in a space too big for it. Our MOULIN ROUGE print was like that -- 9 reels -- 2 cans with 4 reels each and the third was a 2 reel can. So you wind up with one reel and a space too big for the DTS caddy wheel. DTS discs should be packaged in a caddy that is the EXACT same size as a 35mm reel. Then it would be less likely that the DTS caddy would be forgotten and it would provide more protection to the discs. I had to stick an old beat up 16mm reel along with the thin caddy to prevent the 35mm reel from slamming the DTS caddy in shipment.

Then the other extreme of this is what I saw with STAR WARS EP1 discs -- the cans were of the correct size to hold all seven reels. Somehow it seemed that the DTS caddy as simply crammed into a 3 reel can ALONG WITH 3 REELS! How do they do this?....bang out the sides of the can in hopes they can make enough room for the extra caddy? Needless-to-say, the caddy was cracked. And I am sure it couldn't have been a can that was actually DESIGNED for 3 reels plus the width of a DTS caddy....nope, it was an old, beat up piece of junk, probably as old as the first SW release. So, as I said, this shipping method, unlike putting it in a can with extra room, was to just force-fit it. Extra room?....we don't need no stinkin' extra room! Luckily the discs themselves were not damaged, but give it time....sooner or later some kid is going to try to ram that caddy in the can with a hammer.

Seems to me that until there is an industry-wide way of dealing with the DTS caddy, DTS will be plagued with these issues of missing discs or broken discs, something the competitors don't have to worry about.
 


Posted by Gracia L. Babbidge (Member # 582) on 04-25-2002, 11:22 AM:
 
What I've noticed is that the cans designed to hold 3 or 4 reels, actually have a little extra space in them. So if the reels are all neatly wound up (as they should be), the DTS 'frisbee' indeed can be eased into the can along with the reels.
Of course, if the can has a large dent in the side of it (very common with those blasted orange cans from TES), matters get trickier.
I always attempt to return prints in a state comparable to how I like them to arrive, so the next person that handles the print doesn't freak out.
 
Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 04-25-2002, 12:00 PM:
 
Thanks for posting the messages! Unless I am told about the bad condition of received discs, I can't do much to remedy the situation.

Please, **ALWAYS** feel free to send me an email (I love the photo idea) anytime you get damaged discs. It will help me to correct the situation. I count on you all to alert me as to what you experience and I appreciate all the input.

Posting the audio files is not that simple. The files don't belong to us, they belong to the studio and they hold the copyrights. It also violates our contract with them, that we are the sole providers of those files and that the files only be available on discs that we provide. Any site caught posting DTS audio files would be contacted by our lawyer.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com
 


Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 04-25-2002, 12:38 PM:
 
Brad,

Yes, that does sound like it would be a local ETS issue. I'm kind of curious, do you first-run folks have a good relationship with your ETS depot? It seems that we (and I don't know if this is an ETS/Boston thing, or a non-theatrical thing, or what) always get told "call the studio" if we ever call ETS and ask for anything.

Frank, I don't think things are quite as bad as you seem to indicate. In my experience, metal cans are pretty flexible, and I've never seen a DTS wheel break, unless it was on one of the extreme edges of the can (i.e. not between two reels). Yeah, the cans get dented in both directions. I just take a hammer and dent them (the cans) back in the opposite direction and seems to work just fine...The other variable in can size is when trailers get shoved in them...

--jhawk
 


Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 04-25-2002, 03:32 PM:
 
For Manny Knowles: I have not gotten an email from you. Maybe it's lost in cyber-space???

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com
 






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