This is topic Anyone wanna reccommend a new processor for my booth? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Jan Hackett (Member # 1231) on 04-25-2002, 09:41 PM:
Stats: Iwerks 8:70 booth 6 channel DTS, one projector, 12 QTS 3400watt poweramps.
Dolby SRA, IED processor with modules giving me a lot of snap crackle pop in dead air. Need new processor. Iwerks is giving me a proposal. What do you guys recomend? Can spend bucks. Please help.------------------
Jan Hackett
Theater Operations Manager
Extreme Screen Dynatheater
NM Museum of Natural History Foundation
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-25-2002, 09:54 PM:
CP-650. BTW, where is the snap, crackle and pop coming from? Which channel? Have you isolated the source? Is in your exixting processor, or maybe one of your power amps? Is it occuring in all formats?
Find the source before you buy anything..
Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 04-25-2002, 10:34 PM:
Switch to a MegaSystems 8/70!!! No "Snap, Crackles, Or Pops".Seriously though, I'm not familiar with an "IED Processor", but my guess is, that's where the problem is. The 6 channels are discreet, so I doubt that the "snap & Crackles" are on the soundtrack.
Rick
Posted by Jan Hackett (Member # 1231) on 04-25-2002, 10:38 PM:
paul the ruckas is comming from the center channel and only with no sound playing. Iwerks says it is because it is a cheap processor. They want to sell me a new one and say it happens in all theaters with this processor.------------------
Jan Hackett
Theater Operations Manager
Extreme Screen Dynatheater
NM Museum of Natural History Foundation
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 04-25-2002, 10:51 PM:
Sounds like a gimmick to me. perhaps there is a bad EQ card or something? what formats can you run? Dolby digital, SRA, A type, mono, and another digital source, in your case, basically DTS right?AT my old work they used a DTS 6AD and had a few problems with it from time to time. the sound would drop out and the time code converter would get confused.
Josh
Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 04-25-2002, 10:57 PM:
Is it perhaps Line Noise getting into the center channel amp?
Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 04-25-2002, 10:58 PM:
Hey Jan,
Does your theater have an overhead speaker? If so, you can't use an "ordinary" processor.Rick
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-25-2002, 11:08 PM:
I am pretty sure the Salt Lake City has an IED processor and they have had no problems with it at all. Its been in and running for over a year now.
The Linear Loop Projetor has some minor problems but is by far the best 8/70 machine out there right now, and is priced very reasonably for the performance you get out of it. No other 8/70 projector comes close to the steadiness and shutter efficiency that the Linear Loop has. I however dislike Iwerks approach to the rest of the system, except for the show controler which is a decent piece of hardware. The Panastero 70mm processor is by far the best processor on the market right now, both as far as build quality, and sound performance. Nothing else even comes close to it. You can also build up a special version that will accomodate all 35mm analog formats, all of the 70mm formats, and 8/70 by adding an 2nd 70mm cage which is very simple to do. The 650 is not even in my catagory as a processor and is not something I would sell to my customers. It cannot handle 8/70 playback anyway. I'd stay away from Iwerks except for the projector end of things and hire an INDEPENDENT SOUND CONTRACTOR that can give you lots of good refrences on past jobs he or she has done. STAYING AWAY from dealing with any of the large format companies usually guarantees that you will end up with something that you don't have to rely on only them to come back and fix. What if they go bust? And remember that they will cost you in excess of $1500.00 a day, plus expenses, to be at your site for repairs which is ludicrous for the simple stuff they are working on. Seriously consider the Panastereo, especially if there is any inkling of installing a 35mm machine in your booth at some later date. If you decide to then you're all set for sound on a 35mm machine as well.
Mark
Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 04-25-2002, 11:24 PM:
How about the "cinema acoustics" CP600.
Or a Peavey X-Frame 88.Rick
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-25-2002, 11:27 PM:
Richard,
Why would you want to put something in that is no longer being manufactured. Sure they have a boatload of them sitting on the shelf at the factory, but remember that Peavey shut down the Cinemacoustics end of things well over a year ago. Doesn't make sense to me......The Panastereo will still be the best sounding of any of the processor that would work for 8/70 anyway.....and the least expensive to boot!
Mark
Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 04-25-2002, 11:39 PM:
The Panastereo will still be the best sounding of any of the processor that would work for 8/70 anyway.....and the least expensive to boot!
Mark
IP: Logged
How can the Panastereo be the best sounding of any of the processor that would work for 8/70 anyway.....?????
Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 04-25-2002, 11:42 PM:
The IED processors and especially the 5201A modules have a long and frustrating history of the random "frying egg" sizzle and the snap, crackle, and pop noise. I would go with the Iwerks/DTS 6ADSV. It is a drop-in replacement for both the IDA and IED and has custom software to accept commands from their show controller.>>> Phil
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-26-2002, 12:56 AM:
Josh said: Sounds like a gimmick to me. I have to agree with Josh.
I have heard sales pitches like this from salespeople in all industries, especially during hard times like our industry is still going through.
Buyer, beware......
Sam has a good point. Do you have Neon strip lighting anywhere in the theater? This brings to mind a problem I had with a CP-50 in 1984 or so. The Neon hash noise found its way into the CP-50. I had to swamp it out with some .001 caps across the solar cell outputs to get rid of it.
Just a thought.
Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 04-26-2002, 04:48 AM:
My vote would be the Dolby CP-650 or the Ultra-Stereo JS series, (Stay away from the Ultra-Stereo DSP-60, I had way too many problems all DSP-60 with over 100 installed) I vote for the mention above...
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-26-2002, 06:59 AM:
Phil,
The 6AD series does not have the most illustrious reliability recoed either. Alot of software issues with them. I much prerfer to stay away from any digitally based Processor. Its something that manufacturers thing we need, but in reality they are just cheaper to produce and have a higher manufacturers profit margin than a well built analog processor like the Panastereo does. The Panastereo is by far the best sounding of all the processors out there, even better than the CP-65. Richard,
Get one and set up an A/B comparison with other processors like I have done. You WILL be pleasently surprised. It is also by far the best built of the bunch and uses the best sounding opamps available on the market.
Again, the 650 can't even enter into the picture for a system like this, its not even a discussable thing.
Mark
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-26-2002, 08:41 AM:
I'm gonna go with Mark on this one. Especially for special-venue, the Panastereo is the most flexible. I have discussed with Ray the possiblility of making a large-format accommodation...that is having a Top-Screen channel and performing the bass-management aspects. Their remote contol is also killer!Since you use DTS...I wonder if DTS has a version of their 6AD that would be large-format optimized with the above modifications. If so, they might get the overall edge. You already need the DTS part.
As to the CinemAcoustics....their unit is "ok." There are some quirks to it, for sure. The input selector "snaps", the fader is only +/- 10dB so you can not manually fade down all of the way. The mute is instant on, instant off so a nice sound show is impossible. Their is no remote control for the unit though it is remotable if you are creative.
I found set up to be easy though. The sound quality was fine. Some have issues with how they handle the "bass-management" though I don't remember the specifics.
Mark is right again about the CinemAcoustis, why fool with a progressively obsolete unit?
Steve
------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Jan Hackett (Member # 1231) on 04-26-2002, 09:38 AM:
where can I hear a test of the panastereo? We probably will drop a 35 mm head in soon for variety.------------------
Jan Hackett
Theater Operations Manager
Extreme Screen Dynatheater
NM Museum of Natural History Foundation
Posted by Brian Tristam Williams (Member # 1235) on 04-26-2002, 11:33 AM:
We have 14 Ultra Stereo processors installed, and three in storage at this site, and they don't give us much trouble.------------------
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-26-2002, 11:53 AM:
Okay I really don't understand why people are recomending Ultra and Dolby when they are not compatable with the format being shown
It is called special venue and the norm is a different track assignment So Ultra and Dolby are out of the loop of the top.
There is a special version of the 6AD for special venue.
My bet is go with the panastereo and the aux 70mm adapter with a line input card for the existing DTS special venue playback.
The cinemaacoustics is just to much of a pain to work with
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-26-2002, 12:53 PM:
The nice thing about the Panastereo 70mm rack is that you can stack two of them into the system and just loop through the serial control line. Ray has confirmed that this will work fine and I have a couple of these spec'd into 8 perf 70mm systems now. This way the Panastereo is capable of handling all 35mm analog formats, all 70mm formats and 8 perf 70mm.
To try out a Panastreo call either myself at GTS, Steve at Cardinal Sound, Or Gord McLeod. We are all dealers for Panasteeo, and qualified sound contractors that are equipped with the THX R-2 Spectrum Analyzer and the other necessary equipment and knowledge. Steve may even wear his favorite Kinoton tapping shoes if he pays you a visit!Mark @ GTS
Posted by Michael Rourke (Member # 1142) on 04-26-2002, 01:22 PM:
Don: What sort of problems have you had with the USL DSP-60? I have had one for a few years now and I haven't had any problems. OF course USL is only a couple miles away from my theater and are really good with service calls.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-26-2002, 01:37 PM:
The other item to take into account is the connections to the real world of the theatres show automation which is usually far more advanced than most regular cinemas being timecode based
Since Phil Hill already posted that IWerks does provide a DTS6AD special venue that is a direct plug in to the system then go with that.
PS Phill should know he was the head of engineering for Iwerks for years 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-26-2002, 03:05 PM:
Actually I am installing a DTS6D/SV at the Museum Of Ancient Life Iwerks Screen. They open a new Disney film next week and the format is time code on the film and sound on one DTS disk. Disney bought them the 70mm Time code reader head. This was apparently done due to the length of the film, and Disney feeling that it would not fit on an Iwerks disk. The new DTS will be patchable via a Neutrick Patch bay into the input of the IED processor(which by the way, works just fine at this location and always has). This way they can patch in either the Iwerks or the DTS unit in just a few seconds. The use of the patch bay was due to budget constraints but is of very high quality and will work out just fine.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-26-2002, 03:17 PM:
The 6AD may be a clean way to do it but its not the best way. This also does not necessarily take into account that they will also be installing a 35mm machine as well. And 6AD is not really a very good analog processor either.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Jan Hackett (Member # 1231) on 04-26-2002, 04:31 PM:
Mark said "The 6AD may be a clean way to do it but its not the best way. This also does not necessarily take into account that they will also be installing a 35mm machine as well. And 6AD is not really a very good analog processor either."So will Iwerks do the panastereo or could one of you tech dealers. We want to play some of the Disney large format. Considerations?
------------------
Jan Hackett
Theater Operations Manager
Extreme Screen Dynatheater
NM Museum of Natural History Foundation
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-26-2002, 05:11 PM:
You could call either us, or Cardinal Sound, or Gord to have one installed. All you'd need to run the Disney stuff is a used (or new) DTS 6D and the conversion kit from DTS to convert it into a special Venue processor. Its a pretty simple conversion. You can take a look at the Panastereo stuff at their web site at http://www.panastereo.com/
Next to installing a Dolby CP-200(now obsolete, but highly regarded), the Panastereo is the most comprehensive new processor now available.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Jan Hackett (Member # 1231) on 04-26-2002, 05:17 PM:
I already have a DTS 6D for my rear window captioning for hearing impaired. I will check out the links...Thanks will be in touch.------------------
Jan Hackett
Theater Operations Manager
Extreme Screen Dynatheater
NM Museum of Natural History Foundation
Posted by Jan Hackett (Member # 1231) on 04-26-2002, 05:22 PM:
Which panastereo should I be looking at ??------------------
Jan Hackett
Theater Operations Manager
Extreme Screen Dynatheater
NM Museum of Natural History Foundation
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-26-2002, 06:14 PM:
First and formost check out what format this disney stuff will be in some films are configured for the DTS 8 only find out from your distributor first
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-26-2002, 06:53 PM:
It depends somewhat on the length of the film as to what Disney will do. In our case they gave the theatre the 70mm time code reader for free. This particuluar film (called DirectX or something like that) has timecode on the print so its an easy install and nothing to interface except the output of the 6DSV audio into the system. As Disney releases more and more large format, and full length features they seem intent on sticking with DTS. Donno if others will follow suit or not but it does allow much longer running time from a single disk.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 04-26-2002, 07:35 PM:
One thing to consider also, is that there are 2 jumpers inside the DTS unit that have to be on if you are chasing SMPTE time code. They have to be removed if you want to chase DTS timecode. What I do is wire those jumpers to a switch that I mount to the back of the DTS unit. That way, when they are switching the timecode cables, they flip the switch to read the right timecode.Rick