This is topic Simplex Oil Pump - slow startup in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 04-28-2002, 12:02 PM:
I run my XL's regularly to keep the oil circulated etc. My workshop furnace is out of oil, and I've noticed that sometimes I'll need to start the machine, run for 20-30 seconds, then stop and start it again to get the oil splash running. Is this just a symptom of cooler temps, or indicative of a problem? It runs just fine after that.....
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-28-2002, 01:16 PM:
I'd say that as long as your oil tubes are all clear & unclogged and your filter screen isn't blocked there should be little to no problems.It's safe to assume that you have the correct oil in the machine and it gets changed regularly, isn't it? (Of COURSE it is!
)
Other than that, I'd sort of make an experiment. Try it now, with the room cold and observe. Try it later with the room warm and compare results.
Generally speaking, I'd imagine that as long as the machine gets oil within a few seconds you aren't in any real danger. I'm sure there's going to be a higher rate of wear and tear in that period but even when the oil is running normally there's a short "dry" period before the oil makes its way up to the top of the machine.
Heck! I've seen Simplexes run completely dry for DAYS with little to no effect once the right oil was put in them.
If this concerns you a lot, just minimize use of the machine under those conditions.
Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 04-28-2002, 02:55 PM:
Normally you should get oil sooner then that. Since the intermittent has oil collected in it you should be OK.Make sure you havre the correct oil for thr machine. The oil should be changed every now and then depending on hours of use and condition of room. Clean the oil pick up screen usually when you change oil. This may be part of your problem. You need to remove the back, undo the oil tube, and take out the oil pump. Clean the screen carefully, put some Simplex into one of the operings and rotate the gear untill oil comes from the other one. Reinstall pump and set for proper gear mesh to main drive shaft. Make sure projector back and door are completely clean from oil and reinstall rear door. This is were most oil leaks happen. I do not recommend any sealer but the new P-6644 door gaskeys work nice. Hope this helps.
Dick
Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 04-28-2002, 03:45 PM:
The Millenium series of XL's we have, however, seemed to have found new places in which to leak, specifically around the 51-48026 (formerly P-4366) cover plate and the oil site glass making rather a mess in the film compartment. Any recommendations on this?
Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 04-28-2002, 03:47 PM:
Yes, I agree with Dick. Clean the pump screen as it clogs with 'varnished' old oil after a while and can imped or slow down oil pump action.Welcome to film-tech Dick
Glad to have you aboard!
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 04-28-2002, 05:23 PM:
Ken, does the oil get old with use, or just by sitting there? I generally run them for a few minutes every week or so only. So I haven't changed the oil since I replaced the oil take-ups (for upward throw) about a year ago. I bet I've run them no more than a couple hours each in that time just to keep 'em lube'd. I still think it's the cold. After 90deg. temps a couple weeks back, we're right around freezing today. I did a small experiment. One machine, I added a little new oil (stirring it up a bit), that machine started the oil bath immediately. The other, started for 8-10 seconds, shut off and allowed to stop completely, started and the oil came instantly. I really think it's the cold, last year I kept the garage heated and they never did this. I'll change the oil though if you guys think it best, it looks very fresh, but whatever you think. Thank you.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-28-2002, 05:43 PM:
It is just the cold that is causing the problem
Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-29-2002, 05:58 AM:
Anyone have any personal preferences for the best procedure for changing the oil? How bout a rule-of-thumb for how often this should be done?And as long as we are on oil, Here is something I learned the hard way. During a show, the Simplex SH1000 sound head simply froze and stripped both brass gears in the transmission gearbox, the fiber gears between the soundhead and picture head plus a few of the breakaweay gears on the vertical shaft. When I opened up the soundhead gear box I found that there was no oil at all in it, but plenty of powdered brass. Yet, the glass oil indicator window showed a "full tank." Seems that the tube that connects the glass indicator window to the gearbox casing had gotten clogged. Putting oil in the filler cap would only fill the glass window while no oil was getting to the gearbox. The solution naturally is to unscrew the connecting tube and clean it thoroughly. From then on, when you add oil, clean off the filler cap and blow into it. The oil should be forced down the glass window and into the gearbox. When you stop blowing, it should slowly rise back up. A false reading in the oil window can be very distructive, as I learned. A technican told me that he has seen the brass gears in a soundhead grind away in less than an hour when a soundhead was inadvertantly run dry.
Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 04-29-2002, 04:33 PM:
Dick -- good to see your picture again! Don't know if you remember me from my days in Portland and Seattle, but good to hear from you. Hope life is well.This oil filter and points of seepage remain items on my hit list for the Simplex. We're staying after it.
It does sound as though cool temperatures might have something to do with the slow circulation of oil in the projector. I wonder if the oil is correct -- it's pretty thin and you have to get to pretty cool temperatures to see it thicken to a point where it won't get through the machine okay.
Pat
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 04-29-2002, 09:11 PM:
It's the good stuff! Simplex Projector Oil (10wt.)....
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-29-2002, 09:34 PM:
Pat,If it doesn't leak oil, how will people know it's a Simplex?
Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 04-29-2002, 10:42 PM:
Randy -- the term is "seep", please...Have to admit, they're better than they used to be.
Pat
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-29-2002, 11:27 PM:
Hey Dick,
Welcome to Film-Tech. Glad to have you aboard so you can spread some of your knowledge among us. For those of you that don't know Dick, he is one of the most knowledgable people around when it comes to rebuilding X-L's. I'll add one more thing to the original question and that is the spring that is between the impellors inside the pump. I've seen this spring suffer from compression set somewhat and replacing it and both impellors will help get a pump back to its proper pumping volume.
We've installed alot of Mellinneum's and have had only very minor seepage on a few of them and that was easily taken care of. For the most part they stay tight as a drum, and I totally agree with Rick on the fact that Strong has done and is still doing an amazing job with the X-L, and the 5 Star sound reproducer. There have been many seepage points on the X-L that have been totally fixed. I agree that the Yamaha oil sight glass needs fixing next. I think thats the last real seepage point on the entire projector.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 05-10-2002, 03:53 AM:
To Pat, Mark, & Ken,
Thank you for the welcome. Pat, I have followed your progress over the years and wish you well. Feel free to stop by if you are ever in Portland. Wish I had more time to check the forum more often.I agree that the cold weather will be a slow oil factor but I have started rebuilt X-L's in my garage at 40 and below and the oil takes right off. As long as you have the pump out I agree with Mark you might as well look at the vane spring and vanes. I usually pull very slightly on it before reassembling. By the way My X-L's don't leak either. Vary clean smooth surfaces and a clean P-6644 works for me every time.
Posted by Bill Purdy (Member # 202) on 05-10-2002, 10:57 AM:
I would like to add my welcome to Dick Prather. Those of you who don't know him will soon learn that his suggestions can always be trusted. When we wanted to do the sound reader kit for the Kalee we checked with Dick and sure enough, he had one for us to borrow for our development. He also has the only XLs I have ever seen that have the focusing telescopes on them. I always wondered what the funny little bracket was for until I saw his machines.------------------
Bill Purdy
Component Engineering
Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 05-10-2002, 11:03 AM:
Welcome to the forum, Dick!Dick was recommended to me by Ken Layton as being a possible source for a schematic for a 1930's amplifier that I got a couple of years ago.
Dick came up with a manual for a similar RCA amplifier that enabled me to get the amp running in no time. Thanks Dick!!
Posted by Randy Bowden (Member # 587) on 05-10-2002, 03:49 PM:
Here is my 2 cents on the simplex oil pump. The original XL pump was the best due to the fact that they had not yet added that small hole in the P-1516 casting. Plug up that tiny little hole and viola! that thing will REALLY pump oil. The difference is amazing. Anyone know why the design changed in the first place? Randy.
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 05-12-2002, 12:42 AM:
in reference to the gearboxes, the oil level should also drop when the machine is turned on. If it doesnt, you've got a problem.Josh
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 05-12-2002, 11:10 AM:
I can't replicate the problem now that warm weather is here. It was below freezing when it did. Thanks for all suggestions, I will make sure the pump is clean next time I get it apart...