Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Anyone use LTI xenons?

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Posted by Michael Rourke (Member # 1142) on 04-30-2002, 02:36 AM:

An engineer I know has LTI bulbs on his site, Xenonbulbs.com, for about as much as my company is paying for ORC bulbs. I am going to try at least one, but I was hoping that others may have tried more and have some testimonials to share.

I used to use Osrams exclusively, then after a belt tightening we switched to ORC and haven't used anything since. I have been disappointed with their performance and will be trying Christie and LTI bulbs. I have heard plenty on Christie (Ushio) bulbs, but nothing on this site about the new LTI bulbs. Are there any other bulbs manufacturers out there that I should try?

Thanks.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-30-2002, 03:26 AM:

The LTI lamps from Strong have been good so far for us. They have a bit different warranty for Spotlight use which is an advantage to some. However our mainstay lamp is Ushio, same as Christie as they are Christie's Parent Company. Our warranty rate failure average is less than .5 lamps per year for them over the last three years. Our sales are mainly 2K and 2.5K lamps, some 3Ks. We average about 250 Xenon lamp sales a year which is small by some standards, large by others.
Mark @ CLACO

[ 02-03-2003, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: Mark Gulbrandsen ]

Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 04-30-2002, 04:48 AM:

I used Ushio for years.
I tried an LTI just after they started & was pleased with it.
It failed after 750 hours so they are sending me a replacement.
One happy customer I am.

Have had little luck with Osram.

The least I have had from Ushio was 1800 hours
The most was 2800 hours & I use that as a spare. Small flicker but ....

Osram was the one that failed today after 5 minutes.
Funny side effect, it turns your trousers brown.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-30-2002, 03:28 PM:

LTI seems ok for us. Had one failure under warrenty, but that can happen with anyone.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-03-2003, 05:53 AM:

(...digging up an old thread...)

For what it's worth, one theatre where I fill in fairly regularly bought three 2kw LTI bulbs a little over a year ago. Previously, they had used Osram 2kws.

With relatively new Strong lamphouses (installed circa 1998) and good ventilation, the Osrams lasted about 3500-4000 hours at 75-80 amps, which I consider to be very good. We pulled them at 4000, regardless of flicker or brightness; several were still good at that point. Now the LTI bulbs are starting to flicker at about 2500 hours (one quite badly), which isn't unreasonable, but is much worse than we were getting with Osrams. Operating conditions have not changed.

The LTI bulbs were all purchased at the same time, so we may have gotten a bad batch, but they probably won't be ordering LTI again soon. The quality of light was quite good for both, but Osram appears to be cheaper on a per-hour basis.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 02-03-2003, 06:22 AM:

I have used and would standby LTI Lamps as a great product. I think that they have a better light output than other lamps I have used.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-03-2003, 08:23 AM:

Yea, I've both used them, and we sell quite a few of them. No failures or returns except for two that were mis-marked lamps....which is quite odd. If the quality stays where it is other manufacturers may start to feel loss of sales. Also, if you call whatser name a day or two in advance you can get a tour of the plant....
Mark @ CLACO
www.clacoequipment.com

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 02-03-2003, 08:43 AM:

Okay, I'll chime in...

Never used LTI lamps.

I've had so-so reliability with Christie lamps. Some lasting 2500-3000 hours, others getting dim and flickering at 1000-1500 (could have been the lamphouse's fault.)

Right now, we have all Osrams installed in vertical CFS and Xetron lamphouses. The next three on the list to be changed have been running for 5,000 7,200 and 9,800 hours!! The bulbs themselves are black on the top but the on-screen image is still very good without any flicker.

=TMP=

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-03-2003, 08:50 AM:

"I've had so-so reliability with Christie lamps."
________________________________________________________
Never had so much as a blip from a Christie(actually Ushio)lamp. If they are not lasting you have a serious lamphouse or rectifier problem. Anyway, running lamps as long as you are saying is dangerous and will eventually result ina loss of your reflector, or RH mirror. I always say not past rated life plus 10 to 15% extra. Many do, but it is foolish to do so in the long run. Check that you can suck the Sunday paper up all of your lamphouse exhaust stacks. If ya can't then there is NOT enough airflow. The rectifiers could also be at fault here with too much inrush current, or ripple comming into play. The CFS stuff is known to be pretty notoroius!!
Mark @ CLACO
www.clacoequipment.com

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-03-2003, 09:13 AM:

Thomas Procyk wrote: "The next three on the list to be changed have been running for 5,000 7,200 and 9,800 hours!! The bulbs themselves are black on the top but the on-screen image is still very good without any flicker."

While I'm pleased that your "on-screen image is still very good without any flicker" (BTW, have you actually MEASURED your screen luminance lately?), I fear that you may be courting catastrophic lamp failure running lamps that much over the expected lifetime. [Eek!]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-03-2003, 12:05 PM:

Only had one experience with an LTI lamp. It was sitting in it's shipping box, brand new, on a shelf when it blew up.

No thanks.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 02-03-2003, 01:57 PM:

I agree that it's dangerous to run lamps that long, which is why they're going to be changed. [Smile]

Not by me, of course. I'd hate to have one of those explode on ME because SOMEONE ELSE was being cheap with them. [Wink]

=TMP=

Posted by Matt Hale (Member # 1518) on 02-03-2003, 02:06 PM:

quote:
I fear that you may be courting catastrophic lamp failure running lamps that much over the expected lifetime.

So here's a quesion that will expose my ignorance - how long can you safely run a bulb? I have a 3k ORC bulb that would appear to have 7800 hours on it. At first I thought somebody neglected to fill out the log when they changed it, but after reading this thread - and seeing the bulb - I'm not so sure. It is blackened a bit at the top and the cathode is badly scarred and sort of melted.

Needless to say, I will not be putting it back into service after our move...

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-03-2003, 02:27 PM:

3k ORC bulb with 7800 hours??? Is that even possible with an ORC bulb??? I'm betting it was changed and no one logged it. Regardless...get that thing out TODAY! It's not worth the risk.

Each bulb should come with a warranty card and paperwork showing what the warranty hours are. I generally find most xenons are safe to 125% of their warranty hours. Past that I keep a close watch on them. If the glass starts to blacken (or turn a milky white), pull it. If the xenon starts to flicker, pull it. If the xenon starts to become difficult to strike, pull it.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-03-2003, 02:30 PM:

Opinions about how much beyond the rated life vary, but the guideline cited by Mark Gulbrandsen is a good starting point:

quote:
Anyway, running lamps as long as you are saying is dangerous and will eventually result ina loss of your reflector, or RH mirror. I always say not past rated life plus 10 to 15% extra.

Much will depend on things like proper ventilation, current ripple, lamp type, etc. But once you have a lamp explode due to excessive age, you'll wish you had replaced it sooner. [Razz]

BTW, old lamps with imminent seal failure or vitrified quartz are especially dangerous to handle, even when cold. Follow all safety precautions rigorously --- or that old lamp may be the last thing you see. [Eek!]

Posted by Matt Hale (Member # 1518) on 02-03-2003, 03:16 PM:

Its already removed, along with the lamphouse it was in. Unfortunatley I have none of the packaging or documentation or paperwork that came with it as the facility has changed hands at least 3 times over its life. I have no idea what its warranty period was.

It is presently buried in about 8 inches of bubbble wrap and duct-taped into a double-thick cardboard box. Beyond that I'm not quite sure what to do with it.

I will definitely be suggesting that we purchase all new bulbs for when we put this stuff back together - perhaps LTI? [subtle attempt to keep thread on-topic]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-03-2003, 03:25 PM:

As has been stated a ton of times on the forums, you cannot beat the reliability, light and quantity of hours on a Christie/Ushio xenon bulb. Yes they are a little more expensive, but once you do the math it is easy to see that they are actually cheaper to operate.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-03-2003, 06:02 PM:

Superior Quartz lamps are my recomendation

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 02-03-2003, 06:15 PM:

If you automaticaly change your lamps when they are 125% of warranty Christie or Osram are both acceptable.

If you run your lamps until they begin to show signs of aging (envelope darkening or flicker) then if the choice is between Christie or Osram pick Christie.

I can't speak for other brands unfortunately.

Posted by Peter Schoell (Member # 919) on 02-04-2003, 10:22 PM:

I bought a 3 screen theatre a few years ago. When I opened the lamphouses all three had bulbs that were totaly black. Too black to see the anode and cathode. I had to keep using them for a few days, until new bulbs could be shipped.
The old owner came for a movie one night and the manager mentioned we had changed the blubs. His reply. "Your supposed to change them?"

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-05-2003, 05:57 AM:

Peter Schoell wrote:

quote:
The old owner came for a movie one night and the manager mentioned we had changed the blubs. His reply. "Your supposed to change them?

THX TAP and Kodak ScreenCheck surveys show most theatres do NOT have proper screen luminance:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/pytlak/spring98.shtml

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 02-05-2003, 06:27 AM:

Gordon,

What experience have you had with Superior? Number of lamps, etc..

We are running our first one here at the Court theatre and it was an immediate difference especially in the colors. We were running "Lilo and Stich" and the intensity of the colors was amazing.

The original lamp was a P&E.

I am especially impressed with their electrode supports as the focus remains constant throughout any rotation of the bulb.

KEN

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 02-05-2003, 07:57 AM:

<quote>
We are running our first one here at the Court theatre and it was an immediate difference especially in the colors. We were running "Lilo and Stich" and the intensity of the colors was amazing.</quote>

Comparing a new "brand X" lamp to a new "brand Y" lamp in the same lamphouse?
Otherwise the comparison is questionable - the worst case would be any new lamp compared to the end-of-life lamp just removed before the optics were cleaned...

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-05-2003, 08:00 AM:

John--have there been any surveys done since 1998 on screen brightness? Given all of the theater closures since that time (which seem to have mostly affected older multiplexes--i.e. the venues which are most likely to have illumination problems) and the fact that most newly constructed theatres seem to have adequate or more than adequate screen illumination, I would hope that the average screen illumination has improved significantly since then, although I am sure that it is still below standard.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-05-2003, 08:25 AM:

While Ted Costas was still with THX, he had reported that average screen luminance had actually gone down even more since 1998. If I recall, the average was slightly over 10 footlamberts. Ted...?

IMHO, the issue is the trend to some really large screens in some newer theatres (including the poor practice of trying to fill the full width of these huge screens with the less efficient 1.85:1 "flat" format), and a decline in maintenance when theatres had financial difficulties. Even here on Film-Tech, some take false pride in pushing lamps thousands of hours beyond their rated life, despite obvious blackening and electrode erosion. [Frown]

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 02-05-2003, 09:46 AM:

Dave,

200 hours VS new is not unreasonabe difference.

Lamp optics cleaned before each new installation is SOP.
Ken

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-05-2003, 01:14 PM:

Probably 1/4 of the theatres I deal with are using SPQ lamps 2000-4000 watts no complaints so far

Posted by Michael Rourke (Member # 1142) on 02-05-2003, 06:35 PM:

Speaking of Superior Quartz, I tried a 3k in my Christie SLC lamphouse and with 1100 hours on it I checked the envelope and it had turned orange. That's a new one.

I pulled an LTI today at 1300 hours because the envelope was darkening at the top.

My Christies are performing very well, I have 2 that are over 1300 hours and have no envelope darkening at all.

My bulbs don't go too far over warranty because of poor exhaust design, they were put in after all the other HVAC duct and none of the stacks are a straight shot, but back when I first started, our Osrams seemed like they went forever.

If you can afford it, I recommend Osram bulbs [thumbsup]

, with Christie a close second [Big Grin]

, and ORC's are the bane of my existence [fu]