Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Why one frame of RP40 on the leader?

This is topic Why one frame of RP40 on the leader? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003377

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-01-2002, 07:16 AM:

Some lab leaders have a single frame of RP40 on them; what's the intended use of this? Is it just a "cute gimmick," or is it good for people running telecines, or something else?

If the black on Academy-second countdowns were replaced by RP40, then I suppose few people would bother to buy 35PA or 35IQ from SMPTE. Sure might be handy though...

--jhawk

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 05-01-2002, 07:25 AM:

It might come in handy for ordinary use and would be of interest for precisely setting framing that takes into account any shifts that occur in printing but in no way would it substitute for the real thing which is optical printer camera original, such camera movements being even more precise than a regular camera.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 05-01-2002, 07:27 AM:

...and while we're on the topic of strange, one frame leader inserts, how about that head shot of a 1920's looking blonde who shows up for one frame in all the MGM leaders through the '40's releases?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-01-2002, 09:03 AM:

The frame of SMPTE 35-PA (RP 40) may have been to verify the image area being printed in an optical printing step. SMPTE normally supplies the 35-PA test film with the BH-1866 negative perforations so it can be used in pin-registered printers. Despite requests to have a "projection only" version having normal KS-1870 print perfs, SMPTE does not provide 35-PA with KS-1870 perfs.

The "girl head" and gray patches in the leader are used by the lab to help monitor and control printer setup and processing. AFAIK, in the days of 3-strip Technicolor it was called the "Lily":
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/mi-techcamera.htm

Kodak's early versions were known as "China Girl" (one version used a ceramic (china) mannequin):
http://www.cinelab.com/tour/print-room/print-room-tour-02.shtm

The version I developed in 1982, known as "LAD Girl", is widely used today:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/h61/

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 05-01-2002, 09:24 PM:

I've happened across SMPTE (Universal) leader with about two seconds worth of RP-40 in the countdown, typically appearing after the seven-second point. This was in the early 1990s, on animated shorts which were compiled into the Spike and Mike's Festival of Animation programs. IIRC, the shorts with the RP-40'd leader were printed at Crest National Film Labs in Hollywood.

Since this leader ended up attached to some of the reels of the program, I had to find and mark the six-second point so I could get the threadup correct, running changeovers.

Posted by Jacob Huber (Member # 1138) on 05-01-2002, 10:05 PM:

I've always wondered what the girl was on the leader for, thanks John.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 05-01-2002, 10:20 PM:

How was she selected, and how much did she get paid? Is her identity available or is it kept secret? (Yes, I've always wondered about those things.)

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-02-2002, 08:22 AM:

Kodak's "LAD Girl" is a Rochester-area free-lance model who was hired by Kodak's System Development studio. I was on the set when we shot the 800 feet of 35mm EASTMAN Color Negative II film 5247 in 1982, from which all the current "LAD Girl" control film is made. The original negative has been kept in cold storage, and recently, was scanned and "digital intermediate" made to allow it to be reproduced on current camera original negative film rather than duplicate negative film. Tens of thousands of feet of "LAD Girl" control film are produced annually, and provided to Kodak's laboratory customers.

Frankly, I do not have her name to share. But 20 years later, her image has been used to help control the color and density of thousands of films and television shows worldwide. As I said in my acceptance speech to the Academy, she has probably been in more films than any actress in history.

Posted by Arthur Allen (Member # 969) on 05-03-2002, 08:25 AM:

I wonder about the logic about a different color test woman in the front of 16mm school films in the 1970s, wearing a flesh colored swim top. When she poped on for a 24th of a second in a room full of horny pre-teens, we were all wondering if we really saw what we thought we saw.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-04-2002, 05:32 PM:

I always wondered how difficult it would be to print the first and last frames of a reel respectively at the head and tail section of the leader, similar to the color test girl frames. This would eliminate the hated fan-fold, accordian effect at the splice joints created when each splice-jockey tries to leave a single frame of image on the leader side of the cut as an "identifier" frame. If there were a few identifier image frames in the leader sections, that would eliminate all that nonsense at the joint. Or not. Depending on how dense the guy doing the splicing is. I guess any system to encourage print integrity can be twarted.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-04-2002, 08:27 PM:

Frank I have brought that idea up at P3 for years and have been told it would be to costly for the labs to make up a special leader for each reel

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-05-2002, 03:25 PM:

Ah, as always, money talks.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-06-2002, 11:10 AM:

It's not just a "money" issue. To put a few actual frames of the first/last scenes into the leaders of each reel would require making a duplicate negative of those few frames. The extra handling/printing/processing would add a day or two to the lab time, and put the original cut negative at additional risk.

SMPTE 301 specifies frames 145 - 152 of the head leader as a location for "Control Test" frames, which could include control films like "LAD Girl" or reference frames. Perhaps the negative cutter could be allowed to use the adjacent "outtake" negative as the reference frame to insert into the leader?

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-06-2002, 11:14 AM:

How are the leaders with stylized lettering and logotypes produced? If they're computer-generated, perhaps the first/last frame could be scanned on a film scanner directly from a negative.

I suppose this has some of the same handling problems, but probably not the same delay issues.

--jhawk

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 05-08-2002, 04:09 PM:

Leave it to the French to have a topless LAD girl.

And then there is the one I have here now, on a French B&W film where the girl is not topless but is wearing something with a paisley pattern that could almost double as a focus test chart.