Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: FP-350 Cue Detector failure

This is topic FP-350 Cue Detector failure in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 05-03-2002, 07:28 PM:

I had to replace a FP-350 Cue Detector this week. It simply stopped reading cues in any shape or form, although the failsafe was still working. It was not a loose wire. Since Strong does not do a repair/exchange, we had to buy a new unit.

Our equipment is a little over two years old, so I'm wondering what I have to look forward to in the future. Can I expect more of the same?

After conducting a serch, I know that Mark Gilbrandsen and Dave Cutler have favorable opinions of these units, while Nic Margherio and Ken Layton do not. However, those posts were also two years old.
Guys, have your opinions changed?

Is there anyone else out there who would like to give some input?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-03-2002, 07:29 PM:

I have not had many problems with those units

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 05-03-2002, 07:53 PM:

My opinion of the Strong FP-350 has not changed. Buy a Component Engineering FM-35 instead. Component's products run and run and their product support is excellent.

Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 05-03-2002, 08:59 PM:

I have used them at three different locations since I started working in projection back in 1995 and had never seen one completely fail.
The only place I have ever had problems with them not reading cues is at my current location.
Some of them werent reading cues even when they were brand new.

Im assuming you checked it out to make sure that it was completeley dead.
The way I do it is to stick a piece of cue foil (or something else like a screwdriver) underneath the sensor while it isnt running to make sure its not reading at all.
If you put it up to the sensor and you do not hear a click, then it is not reading anymore.
If you do hear a click, that means it still does read but may be dirty and need to be cleaned or you may have to lower the failsafe itself.
You can do this by unscrewing the failsafe from the projector and using a file to make the screw holes more of an oval shape so it rests lower on the screws.
I did this with all of the failsafes I had trouble with and they are working fine.
This may take some time if you are doing it by hand, so what I did was to take a file, attach it to a drill, and run the small end of the file back and forth through the hole and i spin the drill slowly.
If you do this, please be very careful and make sure you disconnect all the wiring from it because if you lose control of it, you might yank the failsafe from the wires, blow a fuse, and run the shows manually until you go out and get a replacement fuse.
Also you run the risk on making the holes too big.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 05-04-2002, 10:33 AM:

I opened a theater 2 years ago that had the FP-350. I was there for a year and a half and didn't have any problems with them. I still keep in touch with people from that theater, and I haven't heard of any problems.

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This one time, at Projection Camp, I stuck a xenon bulb....

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-04-2002, 10:45 AM:

I've had little or no problems with the FP-350s. Note, these units are made by EPRAD. You can have them repaird by EPRAD rather than just replaceing them. I'm sure they can fix somthing on this line. Furthermore, I'm sure you could get a new sensor board for your existing unit. They make one with two sensors and one with one.

I have no problem with the FP-350.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 05-04-2002, 11:00 AM:

John et al;

We have not included the FP-350 in the Repair Exchnage program as it hasn't been flagged as a high problem item. I'll take a look at returns and such and see where the product sits -- if the rate of trouble is significant, we will look to add it to the program. The weakest part of the failsafe is the rollers and the bearings, in my experience.

The test procedure suggested above is a good one. Chances are the roller that keeps the film close to the sensor is bent and not keeping the film close enough for reliable sensing of the cue. If you can put a screwdriver tip or a piece of cue tap near the sensor and hear the internal relay click, the problem might be that roller position, connections on the terminal block of the FP350 or the automation itself.

Pat

Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 05-05-2002, 01:47 AM:

We have had about a dozen FP-350's in the field with SPA-7 automations since the mid 90's. So far, no problems.

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 05-05-2002, 07:51 AM:

Thanks for your replies.

James R: Thanks for your solution, but the sensor was dead as we tested it using the method you described. It simply did not respond to the foil. I take a 3x5 file card an place a piece of foil tape on the edge and run it through the unit. If the unit is good, this will work every time.

Pat M: Thanks for your input. The rollers are fine. We clean and inspect each unit weekly. I'm glad to hear that the FP-350 is not generally a problem item. Perhaps this was an abberation. All the others, and the new unit, are working fine. I will say that I've had great support from Strong on other items. Troy James and Dale Mc Millan have been especially helpful. Keep up the good work!

One of my operators, who is an electronics tech school grad (which I am not!) took the unit apart and discovered a broken connection. He soldered it and we'll test it out this week.

Steve G: If the solder doesn't work out, I'll give Eprad a call and talk to them. We have a single sensor for outboard cues, so we'll get it fixed if we have to order a new board. Never hurts to have a working spare handy. Great suggestion, and thanks.

Good to hear from others that this is not a problem item.

John H.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 05-05-2002, 10:39 AM:

On a side note, why are these sold by strong and included with their equipment package if they are made by Eprad? Same question about the CNA automation. thx.

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This one time, at Projection Camp, I stuck a xenon bulb....

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 05-05-2002, 10:21 PM:

Strong and others have licensed patents for some components. Quite a common occurance.

Strong automations and failsafes are made by Eprad
Strong platters are made by Design & Manufacturing (Potts)
Strong changeovers are made by Kelmar

CFS changeovers were made under license from Kelmar

Christie film cleaners were made either by Kelmar or under license from Kelmar (they are very similar to but not exactly the same as a genuine Kelmar)
Christie basement readers are made by Kelmar

I am sure there are others

-Aaron

Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 05-06-2002, 08:21 AM:

Hi Aaron;
Couple quick corrections:

Design Manufacturing is a subsidiary of Ballantyne and Strong -- we own it. Design also makes the platter for Potts.

Eprad/TL Industries does make our automation and cue detectors for us as part of a long standing manufacturing agreement.

We actually make our own changeovers -- but if the design looks familiar, well...

Our standard basement readers (analog and digital) are Component Engineering, but we install Kelmar for some customers that want them.

Just about everything else we churn out here...

Pat

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 05-06-2002, 12:17 PM:

Thanks for the corrections, Pat.

Did Ballantyne buy D&M from Bob Potts? I made some comments in the past about Robert Potts Enterprises and was told that the name was changed to D&M.

Or did Potts sell or license his platter design to Ballantyne?

As for the changeovers, both the Kelmar and Strong units are EXACTLY alike except for the name on them, therefore I assumed it was licensed.

-Aaron

Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 05-07-2002, 06:39 AM:

Design was actually a separate company for many years that had -- and still has -- a manufacturing license with Potts. We bought them -- I don't know, three years ago? It's been a while. They do other machining and manufacturing work for other customers as well, though platter systems are their largest quantity item. Nice little company, well run, build a nice product.

Pat