Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Water Chillers

This is topic Water Chillers in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-06-2002, 12:47 PM:

Can someone out there reccommend a good water chiller for cooling a 35mm X-L running a 7kw lamp? Thanks!
Mark @ GTS

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-06-2002, 12:53 PM:

Kinoton has one, that uses refrigeration:
http://www.kinoton.com/zwei-kreis-wasserkuehler.htm

They also carry one that uses a heat exchanger with room air to cool:
http://www.kinoton.com/lwk.htm

Perhaps Larry Shaw can add to this?

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 05-06-2002, 01:58 PM:

No, but I do know that Walmart "Tech" Antifreeze (& water) is the official coolant of Boeing Digital Cinema.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-06-2002, 04:22 PM:

Steve, When you try to blast a 7kw lamp through an X-L 35mm aperature for 2 plus hours a chiller is really the only safe way to keep the projector from turning into a molten glob of alumnium.

John, Thanks for the link. I called them for availability and pricing.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-07-2002, 06:49 AM:

I use a fish tank pump that passes the water into an off the shelf finned car oil heat exchanger. I purchased some surplus refrigerant plates that get nice an cold when DC current is applied to them in one direction; reverse polarity and they heat up. I siliconed them to the heat fins and they cool the water nice and cold, even if it runs for hours. We power the refrigeration plates with the old exciter lamp supplies, which otherwise would be door stops after the red scanners were installed. I had to devise this scheme because the booth is not big enough to hold two XLs, an Eastman 25B, a Strong SuperTrouper AND those big water drums.

In the Prospark Park venue, I just throw a bag of ice in the water drums. Keeps the water cold for the two, two and a half hours that we run at night.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 05-07-2002, 09:40 AM:

You might see if you can find some of those older Ashcraft recirculators that have the fan-assisted cooling coils on the top of the pump... I remember the coolant in those running ice cold at the drive-in both carbon (Futura II's) and xenon.

-Aaron

Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 05-07-2002, 07:28 PM:

Mark, We are useing a Kinoton water chiller to cool the gate.We are running a 7kw lamp in this consol.The chiller keeps evrything nice and cool with no problems.
Steve

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-07-2002, 08:38 PM:

Do these units always use water or can some other coolant do better?

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-07-2002, 09:17 PM:

Strong makes a cooling kit. I've used them for years with not a problem. Basically it's a big (5-gallon?) tank with a recirculation pump. Add a spot of anti-freeze and you are all set for 7k. (Of course you need the water-cooled trap)

>>> Phil

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-07-2002, 09:51 PM:

Phil,

Why the anti-freeze?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-07-2002, 10:01 PM:

A bit of permanent (ethylene glycol) antifreeze helps prevent corrosion and bacterial/algae growth.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-07-2002, 10:09 PM:

I have used the Strong water cooler too. On a Simplex once running a 4.2 kw lamp after all day operations the water actually became steamy!! Basically fine for a show or two but not for all day operation with 7kw. I've had too many good reports back from those using refrigerated water chillers that are able to keep the trap at room temperature all day and night with that size lamp. Thats what I'm after. If this system goes we'll end up using the Kinoton unit.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-08-2002, 08:23 AM:

One thing I have given up on in the water cooling systems is the antifreeze. What minimal benefits it brings is far overshadowed by the scum that tends to form with it not to mention it should be treated as hazardous waste (ie don't flush it down the drain).

I go with straight distilled water....it's safe, cheap, effective and if changed with minimal regularity (once a year) no significant sediment forms.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-08-2002, 08:42 AM:

Steve -- do you at least add an algaecide, such as might be used to prevent bacterial/algae growth in the water used in a humidifier? Warm water can be a breeding ground for these things.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-08-2002, 09:43 AM:

John,

I must admit, I do not. I use straight distilled water. My theory is that it is mostly a closed system. Even the Strong water circulator is a closed tank...I don't see any significant anything growing in the water (it startes out distilled)....again a change out about once a year seems like enough. The only contaminents I have noticed is in the copper tubings on new projectors with the copper itself showing up in the water.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 05-08-2002, 09:51 AM:

Those electric cooling plates are called "Peltier Coolers" They come in a variety of sizes and are used to cool CCD cameras, amongst other things. They are pretty inexpensive for the job they do.

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 05-11-2002, 06:40 PM:

How Wal-Mart is Remaking our World

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-11-2002, 07:40 PM:

Frank,
John is correct....

"A bit of permanent (ethylene glycol) antifreeze helps prevent corrosion and bacterial/algae growth."

Most systems are not "closed" systems as they do not prevent air-borne contaminations from entering the system.

>>> Phil

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 05-11-2002, 08:32 PM:

Not sure what the Wal-Mart post is about, but it's bang on. You might want to look for a book "How Wal-Mart is Destroying America", and then stop shopping there!

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-11-2002, 10:01 PM:

The Strong/Christie/Cinemecchanica (they all seem to be the same thing) recirculator should have no problem with a 7K!
We installed them in every AMC booth with 4kW and up, there are several 7K consoles and the water gets slightly warm after a show, hardly steaming. Maybe the old XL gates got hotter than the Millennium though..?
I recently made up a closed system cooler for a rental Strong 35/70 with a Super 80. With a sumbmersible pump in a waterproof conduit box reservoir, a small radiator and a muffin fan gets rid of the heat. With the fan off and a 4K lamp hitting the gate with the shutter stopped open, the water got to 60C in about 20 minutes, starting the fan brought it back to room temperature quickly. Since it's a closed system I used distilled water with ~5% "Red Line Water Wetter" as an anticorrosion agent - it's supposed to make the water cool stuff better too. I don't think a fungicide is needed if it isn't an open system.
I would recommend a simple radiator system if you get hot water witha circulator. A refrigerated system, whether phase change or peltier, is overkill and overly expensive.
I used an automotive oil cooler as the radiator, about 6x12 inches. A "little giant" pump, and an ABS 8x8x8 waterproof conduit box as reservoir. It all fits in the base of a Century pedestal (a rather old one) so we don't have to manhandle a circulator and jug of water on rentals.
There are cute little radiators available for computer watercooling that would be convenient too. Google for "black ice radiator" and you should find a few.
I don't like glycol as it is poisonous, messy, and I've added it to circulators using submerged pumps which have worked happily for years in plain distilled water - and had the pump paint flake off and the pump casting become a slimy corroded mess after one year with the glycol.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-11-2002, 10:20 PM:

Hmmmm.... I guess the take is don't drink the (cooling) water. The usual cooling configuration is not a submerged pump but rather a pump-in-the-lid-on-the-reservoir and has not been a problem for me. The closed and/or radiator/fan seems to be an over-kill for most applications. I've done extended gate-temperature tests with 7kW and 12kw lamphouses and had safe gate temperatures...even with extended run times. Strong Ultra 80's and custom-built 12/15kW lamphouses leveled off at 120-160 degree F gate temps with H2O and well over 200 without.

>>> Phil

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 05-12-2002, 01:34 AM:

What does Wal-Mart have to do with water chillers?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-12-2002, 07:55 AM:

Well, when you think of what Wal-Mart has become it is VERY chilling!
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 05-12-2002, 09:32 AM:

quote:
No, but I do know that Walmart "Tech" Antifreeze (& water) is the official coolant of Boeing Digital Cinema.

This was my justification for posting the Wal-Mart link. Sorry it was off topic.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 05-12-2002, 10:42 AM:

Ah...now it all makes sense.