This is topic Best choice for new lamphouse in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Rob Jones (Member # 902) on 05-06-2002, 04:54 PM:
Hi,At our little student run cinema we're about to do a few upgrades to our somewhat ageing equipment (a GK20 mech with god knows what lamphouse on and some 'should have been got rid of 10 years ago' lenses). The new lenses and replacement analogue reverse scan soundhead have been pinned down, but we have a few options for a replacement lamphouse, pretty much dependent on the £££'s in the bank.
The two options we have are a new Strong Super Lume-x or a refurb 5yr old Orcon 2500B (I'm not familiar with this one) for about 2 grand less. If anyone has any experience with either of these, is the Orc a reasonable product, or more simply, is the Strong worth the extra 2000? For the record we're running a 2k bulb and hopefully will be putting in a new Irem recitifier also.
Cheers,
Rob
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-06-2002, 05:03 PM:
The super lumex wins hands down
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-06-2002, 05:05 PM:
A Super Lume X vs. an ORC? This is really no contest. Don't even consider the ORC.Do check out Christie's current SLC line of lamphouses though. I think they are the best on the market right now.
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 05-06-2002, 05:12 PM:
Another option would be a Kneisley Xenex II ( metal reflector ) which Bell Theatre Supply distributes.....which is a souped up Lumex type for a few less dollars if you are buying new.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by Nathan Guerriero (Member # 1214) on 05-06-2002, 05:20 PM:
We currently use Super Lumex in our smaller theatres. I really think that the reflectors in these things are some of the best made. Discounting other limiting factors, they really throw a ton on light onto the screen. I would definitely take the Super Lumex.
Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 05-06-2002, 05:36 PM:
Rob how much do you have to spend? Because i might have a lamphouse for sale from here at York. We have alot of stock in our wherehouse in Cambridge too which might do you good.Also Future Projections from London are probalby the best choice of a supplier here in the U.K, they will be cheaper than any of the major suppliers.He has s/h irems too.
Office Number for Future Proj is. 0207 3528 0606
Youll have to bob in to City Screen sometime and say hello too!
Cya
Darren
P.S Have a S/H superb condition. steadya s a rock Vic 5 sat here which is looking for a good home, Ex our Screen 1 , just been replaced with a Vic 8
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-06-2002, 06:01 PM:
Actually Kinoton would be my choice for #1 in the lamphouse department. Christie SLH, then Strong.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-06-2002, 06:30 PM:
After reading Mark's comment I feel I should add the disclaimer that I have not seen a Kinoton in action yet. My recommendation earlier in the thread was based on seeing pretty much everything in the market except for a Kinoton.
Posted by Rob Jones (Member # 902) on 05-06-2002, 06:35 PM:
Is the ORC really that bigger pile of 
? For the kind of cash thats sitting in the bank the difference in light output that I'd get between something like the Strong or the Christie would really need to be quite a lot for the extra to seem worthwhile.Brad - I never thought I'd see you recommending Christie products. Sorry.... thinking of Joe there for a second 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-06-2002, 06:53 PM:
Ok let me try and give an analogy. Imagine a flashlight running off of two AA batteries behind your projector. Now imagine having the actual sun behind your projector. See the difference? 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-06-2002, 07:45 PM:
Super Lumex. They are proven.... Don't fiddle with the ORC - it is just too old, and parts are getting scarce.
Posted by Rick McCluney (Member # 642) on 05-06-2002, 08:09 PM:
I have to agree. The Super-Lumex provides much better light, is much more reliable, and in the long run cheaper to maintain.Rick
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-06-2002, 09:12 PM:
I can absolutely reccommend the Super-Lum-Ex. Its been around a long time and you'll get great life from your lamps provided you install a large enough exhaust blower. 2KW = 900CFM min. Our customers easily get 3000 hrs out of lamps this way. There are also hundreds available used to be had out there.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 05-06-2002, 09:25 PM:
ORC was great in the 1970's and early 80's when comparable product from other manufacturers was poor in comparison. Today's reflector and focusing mechanisms ( with improved cinema lenses ) are miles ( or km if you prefer )ahead than what is offered in a ORC 2500....this unit was the common light source sold with Westrex belt drive machine.
Mark.....Kinoton glass or metal reflector set up? We are firing up a retrofitted 7kw Cinemeccanica light module ( + rectifier ) tomorrow which uses a glass reflector, in a 5kw console that was borderline in filling a screen in a 700 seat stadium house........
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 05-06-2002, 09:32 PM:
Strong Super Lume-x and Christie SLC/SLH lamphouses are both excellent. For a power supply....IREM or LPA
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-06-2002, 10:56 PM:
IREM? Bah!
Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 05-07-2002, 01:34 AM:
I vote for the Strong Super Lumex Hands down !!! but if I had my way (which I don't) I would want a Christie SLC Console with auto focus, Century Projector, & Speco Platter....this is my choice of a great projection system....
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-07-2002, 01:36 AM:
Mark, just checking for a possible typo here. Did you really mean to say that you are recommending 900CFM minimum for a 2000 watt lamp in a Super Lume X? What would you put on a 7000 watt lamp in an SLC?
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-07-2002, 02:05 AM:
Brad, I was also wondering about that. I thought it was about 350CFM.Don, I have to agree with you on the Christie Consoles. That is a nniiiicccccceeeee unit. But Century......well, that is a different story. 
Please don't get me wrong, but the Centruy by itself is a great machine. It is the Century R-3 loop grinding soundheads I have a problem with. I hate them. Kinda like Ford....they had a better idea, and the light bulb burned out.
If you park any Century on a SH-100* or an RCA MI-**** or any other soundhead that used the loose loop system, you have a combination that is almost impossible to match in quality.
The LP-270 is a great machine.....I have always liked them. True, they sound like a lady of negotable virtues (i.e. whore) farting on start-up. When they stabilize, they were hard to beat.(competition, that is...)
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-07-2002, 02:10 AM:
Rob, if you've got the cash take the Super Lume-X. I had one of the first of these brought into the UK at a cinema in Edinburgh. I replaced a well knackered Magnarc with a badly done xenon conversion. (Which uses the same mirror as that AEI or BTH 'biscuit tin' you've got). THe difference is quite striking. You've got light! Lots of it! You'll achieve the relevant SMPTE standards for light level and coverage without hassle, you can often come down a lamp size, as the optics are that much more efficient than the thing you have. Also I find bulbs last longer as the ventilation is going where it needs to, rather than where it needed to if the lamphouse was still burning carbon. The Super Lume-X ignitor is a lot quieter than the IREM that's probably in your biscuit tin, so you won't get that nasty buzz on the sound every time you strike the bulb.
Personally I like the IREM power supply, other than a loose core bolt and one popped diode, I've had few problems with these. I know others here will disagree, but based on my experience I think they are ok.Out of interest, what are you having fitted to the soundhead to give it reverse scan? Actually, which soundhead do you have? One of teh BA Kalee heads was reverse scan, one wasn't, I can't remember the numbers. I've been having success converting the forward scan heads to red light using a combined optic and laser device. You can use a standard ACL laser, but the ones I've done had poor optics (flat to 4 kHz!), so they had to be replaced regardless. You can fit a Jaxlight, but lets not go there, it's not really a viable option on the Kalee heads.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-07-2002, 04:35 AM:
Brad,
I always use a Grainger blower that is 985CFM in free air. For a 7kw lamp assumming no aux blowers on the lamphouse about twice that size works very well. If you can suck the Sunday paper up the stack all is correct......This much airflow is why our customers routinely get at least two to the times the rated life from their lamps...although I don't reccommend it. It may sound like overkill but by the time all of the fittings and hose factor in it isn't 985 cfm anymore....Usually goes down to into the 600 CFM range with all fittings attached.
Mark
Posted by Rob Jones (Member # 902) on 05-07-2002, 06:15 AM:
I guess we'll be giving the ORC a miss then It looks like the Super Lume is probably gonna be the one to go for...Pete, we're probably going with the component engineering ASR-30K. We looked at the Jax Light but after hearing some of the stories about noise we thought it'd be best to job the job properly, seen as how component also do a mounting bracket to properly fit the Kalee sound head. We've actually got two of em, one of which is reverse scan and the other not so - can't remember the part numbers off the top of my head either, but its the reverse scan thats in use at the moment.
There's actually a whole GK20 worth of spares sitting here as well - Jim Schults installed the current setup in 1989 after we nicked two of 'em from the central hall at the uni where they'd been sat doing nothing since about the 70's. The two got combined into one working setup and half a ton of spares which I reckon have been sat in the corner ever since.
And how did you guess it was the biscuit BTH biscuit tin we had sitting there - It wasn't something I really wanted to admitting to still using I take it there's still quite a few of them floating around?
As for ventilation, would, as Brad suggests, would a 300-400ish CFM exhaust fan be suitable, assuming that the extract to the vent on the ceiling is about 4 feet and a further 6 feet of ducting to the vent on the roof?
Thanks very much for the advice,
Rob
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-07-2002, 02:29 PM:
I like the idea of the CE kit on the Kalee head, it gets a very good name, and I understand you can have a basement reader on there too. Mechanically those old Kalee heads are stonking, they run so unbelievably smooth, but the old optics are another matter.... Good to ehar you've ruled out the Jaxlight for that application. It does have it's uses, but BA/Kalee rep-sets are NOT one of them!How do I know you have a BTH?? Rob, look over your right shoulder, it's there in the photo for all to see! Actually now I know you've got one, I can count two that I know of still in use. They'd be more use as biscuit tins IMHO! The other one belongs to St Bedes Film Soc, at Durham. There was one on Rothesay, but I took great pleasure in throwing the thing in a skip, after I'd bolted a Super Lume-X in place of it.
That figure for exhaust flow sounds about right. You might want to try a bigger fan than is really required, as invariably you end up with less than they are specified at, due to losses in the ducting etc.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-07-2002, 03:50 PM:
Iwould recomend that you have a HVAC contractor do you venting
Each elbo or peice of flex or foot of duct adds inches of static pressure and choosing the correct size blower is important
What you want is around 400 cfm measured with a velometer or fluid meter at the stack when it is finished.
An oversized blower can also cause turbulence problems
Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 05-07-2002, 07:54 PM:
Question - Can you acheive the proper working distance with a GK-20 using a Super Lumex? I ask this only because centuries ago, we tried fitting a Peerless Magnarc behind a GK 20 and found we had to up from a 7 & 8 to an 8 & 9 trim to get sufficient screen light.Might not be a bad idea for someone to provide a measurement of a correctly aligned lamphouse from front of the lamp (physically) to the aperture plate to see if Rob has the room to fit a Super Lumex.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-07-2002, 08:05 PM:
Well, I almost always have the HVAC people install the blowers anyway, but to my specs. Seperate blowers are far better than a common system is. If a common blower fails it will shut down your entire plex. I've even seen this happen where there was a backup system! As far as turbulence goes, in the carbon arc days proper airflow was very important, in Xenon it is hardly a factor. Most well designed lamphouses will only allow the airflow to go one way anyway and this good design work minimizes alot of what might be turbulence effects in these housings.
Mark
Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-07-2002, 09:20 PM:
Hands Down, NO compromise, for up to 2.5K the SuperLumex is the Lamphouse of choice. There are NO others!>>> Phil
Posted by Rob Jones (Member # 902) on 05-08-2002, 08:55 AM:
Pete - oh yeah, its kinda obvious really - must have been somewhere else yesterday :-)
Posted by Dave Thompson (Member # 1242) on 05-08-2002, 10:36 AM:
Hi rob, this is the first post i've done on here, so this is just really to see how the picture came out.Plus the sound associates guy i spoke to today was really helpful.
Couldn't get through to Future Projections. Does anyone know when they are open?
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-08-2002, 12:41 PM:
Yes, you can achieve the correct working distance for a Super Lume-X with a Kalee 20. I have one on the back of such a beast at a theatre in the Lake District. Works a treat! It's an earlier Lume-X, with the glass mirror, correction it had a glass mirror, now has a metal one after a mishap with a bulb.
Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 05-08-2002, 03:26 PM:
Couldn't get through to Future Projections. Does anyone know when they are open?
Peter Hall from Future Projections Ltd is normally contactable at almost anytime through out the day!
(Office) 0207 73580606
Mobile 07710 409328
email: peter@fproj.com
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-08-2002, 04:30 PM:
Never saw a Lumex with a glass mirror (though for 35mm they had a glass beam spreading lens in the front)
Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-08-2002, 08:35 PM:
So Dave, did you ever see the film "Idle Hands"? Welcome....
>>> Phil
Posted by Dave Thompson (Member # 1242) on 05-09-2002, 03:43 AM:
- PhilI presume you are talking about the picture? The one I sent in was this one, but they cropped out the best bits: http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~dmt103/strangled.htm
Dave
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-09-2002, 03:50 AM:
It was cropped out because the idea is for it to be a MEMBER picture, not a fantasy picture that is an obvious fake.
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-12-2002, 06:25 AM:
I'm off to do some sound work on that very Kalee 20 with the LumeX behind it this week. I'll take a picture or two.
Gordon, neither of the two glass mirrored LumeX's I look after have beam spreaders, I thought those were for 70mm use??
Posted by Carl King (Member # 398) on 05-12-2002, 07:52 AM:
STRONG SUPER LUMEX WINS EVERYTIMEI've used them in two different booths and am sold on them.
Great piece of equipment.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-12-2002, 10:00 AM:
The LumeX(not super lumex) was actually designed for 16mm and with out the spherical beam spreader they have a terrigfic hot spot in 35mm
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-30-2002, 06:50 PM:
Sorry Gordon, I meant Super LumeX. I didn't know there was such a thing as a Lumex.
There's a great thing about life, everyday you grow a little wiser and little older!