Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Drive-Ins & 70mm: Has anyone actually done it?

This is topic Drive-Ins & 70mm: Has anyone actually done it? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 05-06-2002, 08:20 PM:

Curious about this. I searched through F-H-F, found some threads that discuss the theoretical advantages of using 70mm in a drive-in (for better light). But I can't find any claims to have actually done it. There was someone in Australia who said his drive-in is 70mm equipped, but no mention of actually running anything in 70mm.

So, has anyone run 70mm in a regular commercial drive-in? (Other outdoor special-venues such as showing a movie in Central Park do not count.)

Posted by Tom Fermanian (Member # 1094) on 05-06-2002, 08:28 PM:

Hi, If I remember correctly, Drive-In's in Hawaii (Commonwealth -or Consolidated can't remember for sure) where equiped in 70, If I also remember there was a guy called "Wesley Inouye???" that was in charge there, that's all the info that I can remember (Machines where AAII'S If my memory serves me??) Did they ever run in 70 ????);

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 05-06-2002, 09:09 PM:

Australia and Brazil had a few 70mm capable set-ups.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc www.tvpmiami.com

Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 05-06-2002, 09:56 PM:

Yes, one of the drive ins in the twin cities ran 70 on occasion. Rumor has it that the projectionist had to wear sunglasses as the reflection from the liscence plates was blinding

Sadly, the drive in is now a Kameapart.

Josh

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-06-2002, 10:56 PM:

It was very common here in the late 50's and early 60's. I don'tknow how many of them actually ran 70mm prints...I suppose a few did but alot of them were very well equipped. There were a few with 150 foot wide screens! The North Star in Denver had a 150 footer, and one in Rhode Island did that probably took up almost the whole state. I'm sure that taxed even the 70mm prints to the max. They often used Strong Jet Arc lamphouses that were larger than the Norelco DP-70's that graced many of the booths. Aboput the size of a large washing machine turned on its side if you can imagine a lamphouse that big. These made Ashcraft Super Cinex's look small. A few were equipped with Bauers and a few with Cinemecannicas. I can scan a few photos from old International Projectionist mags and send them to you if you'd like to see.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 05-06-2002, 11:16 PM:

Here is a Strong Jet Arc, in this case with its OEM National Cinema Supply "Vent Arc" labeling. That's owner James Bond of Chicago's Full Aperture Systems with it.

Posted by Keith Davidson (Member # 1157) on 05-07-2002, 12:00 AM:

You might find this link interesting ...
www.capital.net/com/jaytp/cinedriv.htm

Posted by Keith Davidson (Member # 1157) on 05-07-2002, 12:11 AM:

The previous link was misspelled. Should be
www.capital.net/com/jaytp/cinedriv.htm

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 05-07-2002, 12:13 AM:

In Las Vegas, the Sunset drive-in was equipped with JJs--don't know if they ever actually ran 70mm though.

And I seem to recall that there once was a drive-in Cinerama in the San Fernando valley of SoCal. Keith's link says one was in Inglewood. But I have an admittedly faded childhood memory of one in the valley with a rather substantial screen building--not just a tower. Dang, too many margaritas over the years...

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-07-2002, 12:56 AM:

Steve, don't you think it would be better if that projector pointed straight down at the floor? You can never have enough keystoning. Was that from a drive in? Was the projection booth 20 stories up? It seems odd that there would be a drive in with the screen BELOW the booth. Of course it really doesn't look like a booth so what do I know?

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 05-07-2002, 02:34 AM:

Joe, that machine you are looking at is in James' BASEMENT.

And of course, it was not in 'operational' status at the time.

-Aaron

Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 05-07-2002, 05:19 AM:

Paul
I too heard of a drive in in SoCal that apparently ran Cinerama.
When I went to Dayton, OH. several years ago to see the Cinerama films at the New Neon Theatre the Lowell Thomas B&W 1:33 section at the beginning was actually spliced onto the beginning of the film and not run from a seperate booth like I saw in Boston.
I talked to John after the showing and I believe he said they found that reel at a drive in in SouthCal.
They brought those prints to Seattle a couple of years ago to show at Seattle's Cinerama Theatre during a film festival and it was so busy and hectic I never got the chance to ask John where that portion of film came from.
Another crazy item:
I worked a drive- in in a suburb of Portland, OR. one summer and they had a mag-only print of the Brando version of MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY. Their house projectionist had to install mag penthouses to run that film, apparently because the distrib could not come up with a mag/optical print. WOW!
The things we do for money!

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-07-2002, 06:05 AM:

Thanks for that picture, Steve. God, that's one awesome piece of equipment! Ah, the romanticism of arc light. No doubt that baby has to be water cooled, no? What amperage does it run at? And are the carbons the size of Hulk Hogan's legs? I don't want to see what a reel of film looks like after passing through THAT aperture. Bet there was a lot of scorching going on with those drive-in prints.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 05-07-2002, 07:41 AM:

Actual-Joe-Redifer:
I believe that was just a test to see what the maximum downtilt could be. As you can see it's just in the warehouse; not a booth.

Frank: On the Jet Arc (so named because a blower forces air through small nozzles that shape and constrict the arc plasma), the negative is not a carbon at all but actually solid graphite. Looking this up in the old SMPTE book, the positive was 10 or 11.5mm, non-rotating, and the lamps ran at 140-155A.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-07-2002, 07:56 AM:

Union Carbide (National Projector Carbons) experimented with carbon arc lamps that produced up to 42,000 lumens open gate. For example, an experimental 11mm "Ultrex" positive carbon ran at 195 amperes and 80 volts (15,600 watts) with a f/2.0 mirror system.

The largest was a 13.6mm "Ultrex" positive operating at 290 amperes and 80 volts (23,200 watts) with a f/2.0 condenser lamp. Don't know if these lamps were ever commercialized.

Buffalo NY had a drive-in equipped with 70mm Norelco projectors. It was the I-290 (it was located near that Interstate highway, just north of Buffalo).

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 05-07-2002, 08:41 AM:

John Harvey's 35mm prologue for THIS IS CINERAMA came from the drive-in showings. It had a bit of a hesitation to it, as they had converted it from 24fps in normal showings to the 26fps needed for Cinerama..this way, they did not need a separate projector for the prologue...they could just splice it on to the first reel of Baker projector, and put blank film on the Able and Charlie machines.

There are also documented showings of 3-strip presentations of WINDJAMMER in Cincinnati (Twin Drive-In with some of the sailors in attendance on opening night) and in upper New York state. I believe that the sound came from a mono mag track on one of the machines. I think Marty Hart has a small section from one of those prints.

Posted by Thomas Hauerslev (Member # 566) on 05-07-2002, 09:54 AM:

South Africa did it. link

Press South Africa

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-07-2002, 10:32 AM:

Thanks Thomas. Your site also lists the fate of the DP70 projectors from the I-290 Drive-In in Buffalo NY:

"Buffalo Young St. Drive-In
Two DP70 were installed in 1966. These are now in the Oswego theatre, NY."

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-07-2002, 10:13 PM:

Mark,
I gave John Harvey an actual 35mm B&W original of the prolog for T.I.C. to run at Dayton and I was quite ticked off that he never used it. It sure looks good and has none of the transfer artifacts of the drive in print.
I have several other prologs including Cinerama Holiday that I intend only to lend out if and when needed after that experience.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-07-2002, 10:22 PM:

A little history about James's Vent Arc lamphouses are in order here. They were found at Harry Melchers..an equipment dealer in Milwaukee. We found them in Harrys basement along with a bunch of other really interesting stuff. They are so huge and heavy that we had to use a chain motor winch to get them up out of the basement. They filled my van entirely for the trip back to Jims place. We were told that this pair was only ever installed for a short time for a demo of some type and then removed. They were missing the secondary mirrors and one feed motor on each. Jim scoured the country and eventually rounded up these parts to complete them. They are in operating condition and are probably the only pair that still are. They sound like a loud blow torch when operating and had to drive the operators in any booth crazy. These lamps lit many a 70mm Cinerama sreen including the Cinerama Dome, and I believe the Uptown in D.C. Steve G. can you confirm this?
I think Jim has now had them converted to a large industrial size washer and dryer pair for doing his clothes...
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Edwin Graf Diemer (Member # 545) on 05-08-2002, 12:02 AM:

Here are the 70mm drive-ins that I know of-hope you can add some more!

Buffalo, NY I-290 DI Norelco
Tonawanda, NY Young Street DI Norelco (installed 1966)
Denver, CO North Star DI Norelco (135 x 60 screen, 1,600 cars)
Fresno, CA Sunnyside DI Norelco (ca. 4/65 140 x 60 screen, 1,750)
Honolulu, HI Kailua DI Norelco (ca. 1/5/65 1,750 cars)
New Orleans, LA Westgate DI
Oklahoma City, OK Cinema 70 DI Norelco
Las Vegas, NV Sunset DI Century JJ
Orange County CA South Valley DI Norelco
Aurora, CO East DI Theatre Norelco
Denver, CO North Star DI Theatre Norelco
Atlanta, GA Thunderbird DI Theatre Norelco
Dubuque, Iowa Super 20 DI Theatre Norelco
Slidell, Louisiana Tiger DI Theatre Norelco
Shrewsbury, MA Edgemere DI Theatre Norelco
Minneapolis, Minnesota Mann's DI Norelco
Columbus, Mississippi Fiesta DI Norelco
St. Louis, Missouri North DI Theatre Norelco
St. Louis (Florissant), Missouri 270 DI Theatre Norelco
Lawnside, NJ White Horse Pike DI Norelco
Cranston, RI Cranston Auto Park Theatre Norelco

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 05-08-2002, 01:06 AM:

There was a drive-in theatre in San Diego that advertised LOGAN's RUN in 70mm in 1976. Can't remember of the drive-in, though.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-08-2002, 02:08 AM:

There are a pair of Strong Jet Arcs in a store room at the Playhouse, Perth, here in Scotland. They were used on the back of a pair of Fedi 35-70 XTs, and were replaced with xenon converted Magnarcs. The Fedis and Magnarcs are now replaced with Century, but the Jet Arcs were so bloomin' big and 'eavy that nobody fancied moving them down the 6 or so stories from the booth store room, so there they lie to this day.

Posted by Chris Erwin (Member # 176) on 05-09-2002, 07:53 AM:

On the Jet-Arc, didn't win an Academy Award for Technical Achievement?
I think I read that somewhere before.

--Chris

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-09-2002, 08:00 AM:

Chris Erwin asked: "On the Jet-Arc, didn't win an Academy Award for Technical Achievement?"

Yes it did:

1965
(38th) Class II Lighting ARTHUR J. HATCH of the Strong Electric Corporation, subsidiary of General Precision Equipment Corporation, for the design and development of an Air Blown Carbon Arc Projection Lamp

http://wwwdb.oscars.org/scitech_db/index.html

Posted by Larry Shaw (Member # 388) on 05-10-2002, 10:22 AM:

I ran the now bulldozed South Weymouth Twin Drive-In a few times (manual 20 min. C/O's, 2 projectionists). Both sides had JJ's with 13.6 Ashcans, Water cooled gates, Cine-focus, Bug blowers. Those were the days.

-Larry

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-10-2002, 12:27 PM:

Larry - Did they get any 70mm prints for that drive-in?

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 05-10-2002, 07:43 PM:

Here is the person that spoke about 70mm drive-ins in Australia!

Where do I start, there were heaps of them. Metro Clayton Twin, Village Northland Twin, Hoyts Coburg - now Village Coburg Triple, Hoyts Maribyrnong, Hoyts Altona etc etc.

All of these drive-ins frequently ran 70mm in the 1960's, through the 1970's and into the 1980's. The Village Coburg Triple is equipped with 70mm Cinemeccanica Victoria 8's with Strong X60 C lamphouses, they can run changeovers or by Speco LP 270 platters. They have not run 70mm since at least 1984.

If you go to www.drive-insdownunder.com.au you will see photos of the 70mm Philips DP70's in action at Altona on the Victoria page under Australian drive-ins, also the Cinemeccanicas at Bulleen and Coburg.

Light was always a little better with 70mm, but the frame could have taken much more than we were equipped to put out. Clayton had Ashcraft Core-Lites and others ran Ashcraft Super-Cinex. These ran at around 160 amps with rotating positives and the light was OK for a drive-in even on the large Metro Twin curved drive-in screens - yep curved, look at the photo.

There were other 70mm drive-ins here in Melbourne and many others throughout the country. It is interesting to note that most of the drive-ins here did not even advertise that a print was screening in 70mm, the distributor would often just send it out.

There has been no 70mm ran in a Melbourne drive-in for at least 15 years.

David Kilderry