Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: THX Sold

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 06-05-2002, 03:38 PM:

A reliable source told me that Lucasfilm quietly sold a majority interest in THX to Creative Labs (the Soundblaster people) last month.

This has not been independently verified although I did find corroboration that such a story is going around but not the facts therein.

Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 06-05-2002, 03:50 PM:

Have a look at the thread in film-yak entitled: "LucasFilm Sell 60% Share of THX to Creative Labs." Brad posted an article with some details there.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-05-2002, 03:59 PM:

I just received a letter dated May 28th 2002, from Tim Schafbuch, Director of THX Digital Cinema, making it "official" that THX has been spun off as an independent company called "THX Ltd.". It says "The creation of THX Ltd. will allow THX to offer a wider range of products and services and to develop more strategic partnerships across the broader digital entertainment industry. In addition, by forming a separate company, THX Ltd. will also be able to accommodate outside investors".

The letter was printed on new letterhead with the divisions noted as "THX Theatre", "THX Studio", "THX Home", "THX Mobile", and "THX Games".

Address is:

THX Ltd.
Post Office Box 10327
San Rafael, California 94912
Telephone: 415/492-3900
Facsimile: 415/492-3930

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 06-05-2002, 04:37 PM:

Ah, thanks Joe. I did do a search first but only this forum.

Posted by Mark Lucas (Member # 791) on 06-06-2002, 03:33 AM:

So what will this mean for THX? Does THX mean anything anymore?

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 06-06-2002, 03:50 AM:

"So what will this mean for THX? Does THX mean anything anymore?"

Did THX *ever* mean very much?.

Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 06-06-2002, 03:55 AM:

THX means something to the customers who think you can buy THX at an electronics store and turn it on and off.

I know of a chain that builds to THX specs, but doesn't have their screens certified anymore because they found that the public has been so confused by the over branding of all things electronic that the THX logo has ceased to be a drawing factor when choosing a theatre. Its unfortunant too, because simply having Digital Sound in no way ensures great acoustics. THX has lost its value as a measurement of a theatres commitment to presentation and there seems to be no replacement, other than spending your own money to decide which theatre to frequent.

Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 06-06-2002, 04:03 AM:

"Did THX *ever* mean very much?."

It did to me. I think that there are two types of movie-goers: those that simply want to see a movie, and those that will go out of their way to see a great presentation. Your theater is in a fixed location, so your attendence of "simply want to see a movie" types is related to the movies that are currently showing. (not much you can do about it) If you want to grab the "go out of their way" types, you've got to wow them. Advertising and being certified THX used to be a good way of doing that. IMHO.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-06-2002, 05:39 AM:

It still does the highest grossing complex in North America is THX certified
There testing and aglinment in most cases ensures proper playback and there design team usually spots and corrects many major problems before they get built

Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 06-06-2002, 07:44 AM:

In Utah, THX still means a lot. There are theatres here which used to be THX certified and as soon as the owners dropped out of the THX program the quality of the presentation dropped off. When I saw Attack of the Clones in two auditoriums at the same "Megaplex" on the same day, the THX-certified presentation was an enormous improvement.

We'll just have to wait and see if this sale makes THX better or worse. Remember that things like Pixar and Avid are really Lucasfilm spin-offs and they seem to have done quite well on their own.

The general consensus seems to be that THX, over the last few years, hasn't been as great a thing as it once was. Perhaps with George Lucas' renewed interest in being a movie writer/director, he lost interest in THX. (Remember that THX started just as the previous Star Wars Trilogy was wrapping up.) Perhaps that was a factor in what you've perceived as a drop in the value of the brand name THX. And perhaps that means that giving up control of THX was exactly the best thing to do.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-06-2002, 07:55 AM:

Unfortunately THX wasn't consistent. I have heard incredible sounding auditoriums that were THX certified and horrible sounding auditoriums that were certified. Have I mentioned that they were in the same complex? Overall though I think THX did more good than bad for the industry.

Anyway I think most exhibitors nowadays are super cheap and will pinch every penny they can. That means no THX installations and that could be why THX is being sold. Why spend any money on the projection booth and auditoriums anyway? That's stupid. Money is much better spent on a fancy lobby and nice concession stand menu boards! That's what the customers really want.

Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 06-06-2002, 09:37 AM:

>>the highest grossing complex in North America is THX certified

Out of curiosity, Gordon, which complex do you refer to? My understanding was that the highest grossing 'plex in North America was the Loews Lincoln Square in New York City, followed by the AMC Century City 14 In Los Angeles. Both only have a few THX screens (in fact the Loews has only one).

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 06-06-2002, 10:21 AM:

My concern isn't with the certified theatres but with how much they've watered down the brand name by sticking that label on everything. They should just stick to movie theatres. However, since the main asset that Creative bought is the value of the name I doubt that there will be any reduction in licensing.

Posted by Glenn Conatser (Member # 970) on 06-06-2002, 11:31 AM:

Mark,

From the NATO newsletter i receive, the highest grossing theatre in North America is the Loews Metreon in San Francisco. All 15 auditoriums are THX certified. The ironic thing is i can hear projectors and AC units in all auditoriums.

Glenn

Posted by Mark Lucas (Member # 791) on 06-06-2002, 01:50 PM:

I guess they have the "lite" version of THX certification.

Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 06-06-2002, 05:01 PM:

Greg said: "There are theatres here which used to be THX certified and as soon as the owners dropped out of the THX program the quality of the presentation dropped off"

Simply being THX certified doesn't ensure a great performance any more than not being THX certifies ensures a poor performance. If you've got a built-to-spec auditorium, not being THX certified won't change that. It seems to me that dropping certification, in your example, is reflective in an overall drop in attention to quality, attention to detail, etc. on behalf of the management.

Joe: i would agree that most exhibitors seem to get off on cutting corners. From what I've heard, THX certification costs upwards of $1000 per screen per year. That could be better spent on added absorption panels, solid-core sound proof doors, and HVAC dampers etc. Doesn't Kodak have a TAP certification? perhaps its time to better exploit and market it as the THX replacement.(if it does, i'm not sure)... All we would need is a cool trailer and the public would DEMAND digital sound in a TAP certified auditorium!

(edit) in the other THX thread in yak somoeone mentioned a $10,000 price per screen per year for THX cert. YIKES! (edit)

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-07-2002, 02:37 AM:

TAP is actually a division of THX. You are thinking of Kodak Screencheck, which has zero marketing. They basically check for things such as screen illumination, uniformity and all that good stuff. They do (did?) have a trailer that is nearly 100% clear with little guys around the edges working. It's a great thing to use to show off how clean your presentation is. But it's waaaaay too long (longer than a snipe should be). I have one, but have never shown it to an audience since we were never "Screencheck Approved".

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-07-2002, 02:56 AM:

If this rumor is true, then THX has lost whatever credibility it still had with the exhibition industry, which is very sad.

THX was just about the only organization which, at one point, was able to help improve exhibition (sound) quality through standardization and certification and was able to sell the general public on the idea that not all theatres sound alike and that audiences are better served by choosing a THX-certified house over a non-THX house (not always true in practice, of course, but there are very few THX houses which sound genuinely bad).

I'm a beliver in the concepts behind THX certification, if not the current implementation, but the THX brand has been over-used lately (THX-approved VHS tapes and computer speakers!?!?) and emphasis seems to have drifted away from the theatrical end of things.

What is really unfortunate is that no one seems to be prepared to replace THX in this capacity. Kodak tried to do something similar with Screencheck (a good idea which didn't catch on), but that didn't really address all of the acoustical issues that THX does...it was more of a complement to THX rather than a replacement for it.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-07-2002, 05:53 AM:

Here's a link to the Kodak ScreenCheck program:
http://www.kodak.com/go/screencheck

The Kodak ScreenCheck Evaluation checks for obvious problems in sound, but does not do a full alignment. But it is more comprehensive than THX in looking at operational aspects of presentation, such as booth cleanliness and film handling procedures, and evidence of a good training and maintenance program. A full "report card" is shared with the theatre after each inspection, which is done every few months for theatres contracting for the service. I helped develop the ScreenCheck specifications, which are based on SMPTE standards and recommended practices.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-07-2002, 11:45 AM:

I really wish ScreenCheck had more marketing. Sadly, I bet most theaters would fail. Perhaps this is why it hasn't taken the industry by storm.

Does this mean that people like Mark G are now Soundblaster Certified?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-07-2002, 12:42 PM:

Most theatres DID fail their first Kodak ScreenCheck inspection. Kodak then worked with them to address the issues found. Unfortunately, theatres find it hard to pay someone to tell them what is wrong with their operation.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-07-2002, 05:59 PM:

quote:
Unfortunately, theatres find it hard to pay someone to tell them what is wrong with their operation.

I am not surprised at all. It is really sad. It's not like Kodak is just going in and saying "You suck! Fail!" and then running away with gobs of cash. They want to help improve what is wrong. But unfortunately most theaters think they are doing nothing wrong, and resent any suggestions on how anything could be improved. Why is that? Where do attitudes like that come from? Are the basic standards of the average human being too low? I hope I don't sound elitist but I am genuinely curious how mediocrity is allowed to shine.

PS - This is getting off topic, I am going to start a new thread about this. Please don't reply about my comments above in this thread. Instead reply in the thread titled "Mediocrity is King".

Posted by Larry Shaw (Member # 388) on 06-07-2002, 10:04 PM:

So are all the little plastic computer speakers that Creative makes THX approved now? Can we use Cambridge Soundworks bookshelf's behind the screen? Is the Sound Blaster board an approved cinema processor?

-Larry

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-08-2002, 12:23 PM:

Only the SB16 is pproved

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 06-08-2002, 12:56 PM:

since most of my work is done overseas (Such as Japan, Guam, Hawaii, & Jarkata)THX name is big in the theatre industry, almost every theatre being built oversea is a THX approve theatre....where in the states THX name is slowly dieing, THX is a big thing oversea, & I'm proud to be part of it there...

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-08-2002, 06:08 PM:

Greg, Sorry bud, there are definately no good sound systems at all installed in theatres in Salt lake City or the surrounding areas!! The closest decent sound systems are in either Los Angeles, or Ontario Oregon!!

I totally agree with Joe that THX was so inconsistent that it was really more of a laugh than aything else. Those high grossing theatres would gross just as high without the name as they would with the name, no doubt the locations are far more important in the grosses than THX is.

Good heavens! Send my beloved R-2 to a creatve labs technician for calibration!!$%*^*#&? I don't think so.....
Joe, I could have alot of fun adding the Creative THX certification after my name . Certified by THX Blaster, Creative THX Recertification, etc. Actually, all of these have some real meaning anyway.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 06-08-2002, 08:46 PM:

Give me a break, please. I just saw Attack of the Clones again in a Jordan Commons THX-certified auditorium on Thursday (three weeks after opening day). I'm telling you that the sound was great and the picture looked great (It certainly looked better than the images from Minority Report which came on before the main feature). Don't tell me I have bad eyes and bad ears. Yes, it's possible that there are better theatres in Los Angeles. Who cares? I'm not driving all the way to L.A. just to see Star Wars. Is it possible that you've seen better equipment elsewhere, Mark? I don't doubt it. But from the seat downstairs everything works.

And when can we expect confirmation of this THX sale news other than what's being "confirmed" on Internet forums like this one?

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 06-08-2002, 11:03 PM:

Ummmm Greg, I live in L.A. and I care.....

>>> Phil

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-09-2002, 01:52 AM:

Yeah Mark! Give Greg a break! That poor guy!

We have a couple of nice sounding theaters in the Denver area and a few theaters with potentially awesome sound but currently with poorly set crossovers and bad EQ. You don't even wanna know how the "tech" sets these crossovers!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-11-2002, 08:35 PM:

Well, Today we discovered a good reason why they should sell off THX.
Our crew has been re-installing a 5 screen theatre in Aspen, CO for the last couple of weeks and today while re-hanging the EAW surrounds we discovered that in one of the large theatres that one surround speakers had never even had wire run to it!! Obviously, the THX tech that handled this place didn't do his job too well but was apparently quite Creative(pun definately intended here)in how he fudged the certification. Since there are only two surrounds per rear channel(EX installation) the localization effect had to be pretty noticable.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-12-2002, 01:56 AM:

How could the guy not have noticed the load difference? Maybe he did and he was just lazy?

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 06-12-2002, 09:05 AM:

Seems a bit hard to believe. Maybe whoever removed the equipment in the first place decided he needed some wire and pulled one home run strand out.

Posted by Kris Brunton (Member # 432) on 06-12-2002, 11:10 AM:

I have to agree with Mark G that it is entirly possible that the surround speaker was never hooked up.

When I was down to Lucas for the R2 training seminar we had to go to a local theater for training. On the second day they had us EQ auditoriums on our own. I ended up in one of the complexes large theaters with EX and the then prototype of the new crossover/monitor. When I got to the surrounds I found 1 speaker not terminated at the speaker and the other arrays not terminated properly in respect to back wall/side wall. This cause quite a bit of embaressment on the parts of the THX techs when I had to fix it. I even found myself on the top of a ladder terminating the speaker.

What really bugs me is the fact that a THX certified theater is supposed to be recertified on an annual basis. I know for a fact that these recertifications are not being done on the vast majority of theaters up here yet the theaters still claim "THX Certified" and are marketing this in the papers, on marquee's and in the theater. Why didn't THX put a stop to this.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-12-2002, 12:04 PM:

As long as the checks kept rolling in from theaters who were certified, THX was happy and saw no reason to do recerts. I've seen this many times. Unless a THX tech wants to explain differently, this is what I am forced to believe.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-12-2002, 08:47 PM:

It was VERY evedent that no wire was ever run to the speaker as there was no place to hook it up in the surround termination box. Also the effort to run the wire was up in the high pain level area of every day work stuff. Although we took the time to run the wore and re-wire the termination panel properly.
Granted the levels probably WERE able to match up as far as the mics were concerned because this is an EX system, but the localization effect had to be terrible for those sitting in the top rows of the seating. Also there have been no other missing wires in any of the other theatres. Imagine an 8.5 million dollar, 5 screen theatre put together like this, and then missed by Creative Industry Experts.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 06-13-2002, 02:02 AM:

at one of the theaters in my old chain, they had a janitor crew walk off with a subwoofer, which went unnoticed for several months. The theater operators noticed the sound problem, but didn't notify any of the technicians.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-13-2002, 09:31 AM:

Part of the drill on a recert is that each speaker is rung out with a meter So someone cheated.
Also I have found that many theatres added the ex after a certification or recert and it took a year to get found out

Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 06-14-2002, 04:34 AM:

Hello all...

I added my two cents on the film yak thread but I'll reiterate here briefly............first I'll say hello KRIS BRUNTON!!!!!! how have you been? Say hello to Al Dal and Terry for me up there in Napanee....you might remember me as the technician whom came up to your quebec sites and we had dinner with you and your girlfriend and took pictures (which I should send copies to you)all throughout Quebec and found that rock which was worn down by years of French sentry guards on that bridge/post. yes you probably remember me now I'm glad I wasn't there for that seminar you attended. Jees what a mess you think they would have scoped the place prior to the seminar. That was typical and not surprising at all. Attention to detail is non-existant what so ever!!

Anyways, I left THX almost two years ago (up to bigger and better things now) having certified over 300 theaters and studios all over the place; I never enjoyed the internal politics (3 ring circus) but in terms of THX selling 60% of their share well I say "What share?" They probably have more to gain now with this pseudo-merger than before for all the afore mentioned reasons. Simply put....business/marketing skills are not their strong point. They sold an image which in concept was Fantastic!!!.....up to date, "fully operational" picture and sound. Their way of implementation of their concept is where they falied. They completely disillusioned the customer. Instead of tightening their grip on Certs and recerts they dropped the ball. I failed many theaters which barely didn't make the cut Ex. NC31 or 2ms off on RT-60@125hz. Instead of helping techs enforce the "rules" they would let things slide if you will. I don't know how many times I had to conduct damage control with the client. Down talk on THX was just depressing and I took the brunt of it as I often had to repair the image. Recerts? HA!! Although I performed recertifications of many sites, there were just too many locations to properly and timely do. Just not enough of me to go around. I did my best though.....from checking speaker aiming....wiring....phase..localization...gain structure...to proper EQ techniques (LESS is best).....etc etc...my concience is clear....hell, how many techs actually took high Freq drivers off to verify and or adjust aiming(i must have found enough plasticine in those new horns that were left in during install to sell back to EV and JBL) ? hmmmm Well myself for one and I ran RP-40 and checked screen illumination too. During recerts I embarrasingly found discrepancies which adversly would have altered picture or sound quality during initial certification. I know that none of what I am pointing out is new nor shocking to all of you film-techers but only to bring out the great irony from and "inside perspective" I always found it curious that no one else but the technicians really new what a certification was all about and what it took to get done. Everyone just talked a big game. "Circus Carnies" have no business in true science.

Rory

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-14-2002, 02:32 PM:

Here's a link to the June 12 Hollywood Reporter article about the THX spinoff:
THX Article in Hollywood Reporter

Posted by Ted Costas (Member # 473) on 06-17-2002, 02:26 PM:

I must admit, when we were "officially" told of the THX spin-off from Lucasfilm, I was hurt. Heck, my wife and I were going to try and win back the title of "Three-Legged Race Champions" at the Lucasfilm 4th of July Picnic (we won the heavily-desired title in 1992, almost 10 years ago). Although for the sake of THX, this is probably a good thing. Look at Pixar... not bad, huh? Here's a chance for THX to do it themselves, grow as their own company, and not be held back by a corporation with lots of other irons in the fire, and little time to focus on THX.

To me, and yes my last day with THX was May 17th, being part of Lucasfilm was special. Although I experienced the frustrations of a corporation making the final decisions most of the time, it was a great experience for me. And now, I'm at Dolby...

I'm not going to bash THX. They are a company full of potential. They lost me, but they still have a stockpile of talented individuals. Tim Schafbuch, Jose Alvarado, Dave Schnuelle, Martin Dew... The future of THX truly rests in their hands, and with the right leadership, the sky is the limit.

You know I wish the best for them, all of them. After all, they won't be going to the Lucasfilm 4th of July Picnic either...

Yours, Ted

Ted Costas
Director
Dolby Distributor Services