Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Reprogramming Big Sky automation

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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 06-15-2002, 12:48 AM:

Ok boys and girls, I've done my homework. I think I can do it. I just wanted to clear up a few things and make sure it's as easy as I think it is. If you know the internal workings of the Big Sky automation and think you can help me, it might be helpful to have the manual handy while reading this post.

Am I correct in understanding that each DIP socket that the diode jumpers plug into performs a specific function, and these are hardwired into the automation? To determine which cue will activate a function, the diode jumper is inserted on the matrix line corresponding the the cue you want, right? Currently, cue 4 is our lights up cue. So DIP socket P13 has matrix line 7, for cue 4, jumpered. If I want to change this function to cue 1 so that it is less visible on screen (which is my whole reason for doing this), all I would have to do is move the jumper in P13 from line 7 to line 4, right? (Assuming nothing else is set for cue 1.)

Actually, cue 1 currently activates our lights half at the start of the show. I think that's pretty dumb. I'd like the lights to go down when the Start button is pressed. For that, do I just move the jumper in P14 from line 4 to line 2?

If that's all there is to it, seems pretty simple. I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

------------------
This one time, at Projection Camp, I stuck a xenon bulb....

Posted by John T. Mellor (Member # 468) on 06-15-2002, 10:54 AM:

Ken,
The doides changes are the way to reset the automation funtion, However they were set for half light at the start on previews and full dim at the feature as company policy with stadium seating there are some saftey issues . Befor you reset, best you check with the local Regal tech and the district manager.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 06-15-2002, 11:04 AM:

I am not with Regal any more. I am with a private company called Cinema World. I do not want to change the light levels and when each one occurs. I simply wish to make the "lights up" cue at the credits happen on one cue rather than four cues so that it is less visible on screen and easier to remove from the film. I also wish to make the lights go down to half as a function of the Start button rather than being cued at the first trailer. Currently we place one cue right before the first trailer, which turns the lights down to half. This cue sometimes is not read. It takes a few seconds for the projectionist to realize this, and by the time he turns the lights down, 10 or 20 seconds (or more) of the first trailer has already been shown. Poor presentation. The lights should already be down when the trailer hits the screen.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-15-2002, 01:25 PM:

I'm surprised someone from Big Sky did not think of this very valid problem already. I'm also surprised someone hasn't posted the solution. What you are asking for Ken is the way the cues should have been designed in the first place. (Well, "should have been" would mean they are not visible in the picture area, but given the cue detector design they had, that is the way it should have been manufactured.) I've never used their automations.

When you get things right Ken, you might want to take some pictures and send over good documentation and we'll post a user modification manual.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 06-15-2002, 01:44 PM:

quote:
What you are asking for Ken is the way the cues should have been designed in the first place.

What, specifically are you referring to? If you're talking about my last post about the lights going down to half, it is the user's option to have the lights go down when the Start button is pressed or by a cue. Our installation tech programmed it to be done on cue, because he was under the impression we would have ads, during which the lights would stay up. The cue would be placed at the first trailer, at which time the lights would go to half. I am thankful we do not have ads. That's why I want to make the lights go to half when the Start button is pressed. It's not exactly like I'm coming up with my own modifications here. It's all in the manual. I just wanted to double check to make sure I understand it correctly before I mess around with things.

Now, referring to my cue detector thread....If I ever come up with a way to realign it so the cues can be read from the edge of the film rather than the center, I'll be sure to post pics!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-15-2002, 01:49 PM:

I am referring to the quantity of cues to perform each step. The lights up should only have 1 cue, not 4.

Posted by Steven Gorsky (Member # 603) on 06-15-2002, 06:12 PM:

Ken, the way you want to place the diodes is correct. It is really simple. There is a chart in the manual that allows you to layout what you want cues to do on paper.

Now as far as the way the cues were set, either that is how it came from the factory (when I worked with this automation the diodes were placed a bit randomly ), Cinema World wanted it that way (why? ), or the install techs decided to configure it that way (why? ).

Oh, if you want to print out the layout chart you can get a copy of the manual in the manuals section.

Also, why the cues themselves aren't great, this automation (and the Xetron equivalent) are much more flexible then the Christie 3Q.

Steven Gorsky

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 06-15-2002, 11:07 PM:

When our booth was installed, I believe what happened was this: The tech talked to the owners and/or managers to find out what functions they needed, when they wanted the lights at each level, etc, etc.... The tech then programmed the automation so that all of the functions that the owners/managers needed could be performed. I don't know whether or not he gave any thought to which cue line (number of cues) activates each function.

I have the manual, so I'll make a copy of the worksheet before I do anything. This is all, of course, assuming that I can convince my GM to let me do it. A lot of people would think there is no point to it. I hope I can get him to agree with me.

I do agree that the automation is flexible, but also that the cues suck! The manual says that the automation is designed specifically for Big Sky optical cues. Not that the company would buy new cue detectors, but out of curiosity, I wonder if it's possible to make an FM-35 or FP-350 to work with this automation.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 06-15-2002, 11:12 PM:

Thats why I like the CNA Automation. All the cues go in the same spot on the film and I can re arrange them any way I want and have several different programs its all done through software

ie:

Program 1
Lens Flat
Masking Flat
Sound SR-D
Lights dim half
motor start
lamp start
changeover open 7 sec

--Wait Cue 1--

Lights Down Full

--Wait Cue 2--

Lights up half

--Wait Cue 3--
Changeover Close
Shutdown 25 Seconds

Just a simple sample this unit can do amazing things unfortunately as i am finding out the lurning curve is kind of high and it uses a wierd "Cue Learn" function. It only reads the physical cues for the first show them it remembers a time code where each cue should be. You can have a different program for each film in the house.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 06-16-2002, 12:23 AM:

The CNA RULES!! I love it about as much as Brad loves his Pennywise. I've never used the Pennywise, but from reading about it, I think the two are roughly equivalent. I love it for the same reasons Sean does...there is only one cue placement, and everything is set up via onboard software, which makes programming on the fly (which still would not be a normal operation) very simple. It seems to be along the same lines as Big Sky automation when running in Sequential Mode (what I have described in this post is Random Mode) except that it is programmed by software rather than jumpers.

What I really like is the ability to have multiple programs and choose the appropriate program for the format of movie you are running. With Big Sky you can't do that. If you want to change something, it's back to the jumpers. Also, with the CNA, if you miss a cue, simply press the [What's the name of that button? It's been to long! ] button to advance it manualy. From what I understand, if the Big Sky automation is set up for sequential mode and it misses a cue, you're screwed, because it will think that the next cue it reads is the one it was just supposed to read, and there is no manual cue advance.

The average operator really only needs to know how to build programs and how to execute the functions manually in case a cue is missed. I find the learning curve for this on the CNA to be very simple. Even the more advanced setup stuff was easy for me, but maybe that's just because I take so well to computers.

Sean, Cue Learn is an *option*. Break out the manual if you want to dissable it. I think in theory it's a good idea (don't you just hate when a cue wears out and is no longer read, requiring replacement!?), but not too practical when prints move at least once a week and the cues have to be relearned each time.

Posted by Steven Gorsky (Member # 603) on 06-16-2002, 12:48 AM:

Opticues do suck in their current placement.

After the automation is set correctly you should never have to change any diodes ever again. The program is on the print instead of the automation. So, if you were running a flat movie, and the next movie is scope, you don't have to do anything - as long as the print is cued properly. The automation will read whatever cue you assign for scope, and change the lens automatically (of course unless you don't have turrets). So instead of having program 1 for flat and program 2 for scope, you could have say 3 cues for flat and 4 for scope.

The automation would probably work with FM-35 or FP-350, but I have no idea how well they would handle multiple cues.

When I worked for AMC for a few months I worked with the CPA-10. Reprogramming it was really easy. The paticular theatre I was employed at did interlock frequently, but could get cues to work right (this also solved the problem of lights not going down at the correct time/at all). In the end I made it so all prints were cued identically, so they wouldn't have to add cues for interlock, and they would have to advance the leader to a specific spot. I also found out for interlock you have to use the start button on the last projector to see the film, otherwise it wouldn't finish running after the failsafe dropped on another projector.

Steven Gorsky

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 06-16-2002, 01:50 AM:

quote:
After the automation is set correctly you should never have to change any diodes ever again. The program is on the print instead of the automation. So, if you were running a flat movie, and the next movie is scope, you don't have to do anything - as long as the print is cued properly. The automation will read whatever cue you assign for scope, and change the lens automatically (of course unless you don't have turrets). So instead of having program 1 for flat and program 2 for scope, you could have say 3 cues for flat and 4 for scope.

What you are describing is Random Mode. What I am comparing the CNA to is Sequential Mode. This is where every cue is only one peice of cue tape. Each time a cue is detected, the cue counter advances one and the corresponding cue line is pulsed. The first cue performs a specific set of functions. The second cue (still only one cue tape, not two) performs the set of functions it's programmed for, etc, etc....

Posted by Steven Gorsky (Member # 603) on 06-16-2002, 03:01 AM:

You're right, in sequential mode you would need to change the diodes each time - unless you don't have a lens change, just set the lens before starting. If you had a lens change it would only be one diode - you might be able to rig up some kind of switch.

Steven Gorsky