Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: CP-500 not responding to automation

This is topic CP-500 not responding to automation in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-21-2002, 04:59 PM:

Ever since I have been at this theatre, one of the CP-500's would only switch into non-sync 50% of the time. Through the months, it got worse. Now non-sync has to be manually engaged at the end of each show.

Starting earlier in this week, the CP-500 will not go into any format at the start of the show. It stays in non-sync. (since that is where we manually put it at the end of the show.) I punched the SRA-5 format, and it didn't respond, but instead it shifted into SRD about 1/2 of a second after I mashed the SRA button.

The system contains the CP-500, Surround EX Adapter (Dolby Labs), and an USL DPP-10 panel. Automation is a TA-10.

The system also had a SDDS that never worked from day ONE, and it was ripped out of the system by another tech. (Namly the company that installed it). I don't think the removal of the SDDS had anything to do with the problem, as that problem was present even before the SDDS was removed.

Since I have two problems, I don't think it is the automation, but I have not verified that yet.

Any suggestions?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-21-2002, 05:51 PM:

Try disconnecting the automation cable and doing a manual short for each format to ground and see if it switchs
If it does the problem is in the cabling or the automation

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-21-2002, 06:01 PM:

I'll try that, Gordon. I was going to try some triggering in the automation terminations, but when I looked at that mess, it would take me several hours to figure out how it was wired. So, your idea will be employed.

One thing I forgot to mention.....I observed the shut-down to see if I could get some more indications. What I found was this sequence:

1. Chage-over closed.
2. When the Dolby Digital signal was lost, the "Mute" light flashed about 6 times, then defaulted to SRA-5.
3. Then the machine shut down properly when the film expended through the fail-safe.
4. I had to manually engage non-sync.

Several times in the past, I have noted the mute light continued to flash until I manually triggered the non-sync format.

Hope this helps......Thanks.

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 06-21-2002, 06:04 PM:

Does the CP-500 have the latest software version?

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-21-2002, 06:39 PM:

Ken, the firmware version is 1.61EX.

One other thing I observed on shut-down is the CP-500 is unmuted when the xenon contactor opens. I *think* this is how it's wired, as the lamp contactor opens about 1/2 second after the motor shuts down.

I have to get some more indications and when I do, I'll post them.

Just noiced something else....The EX light comes on when lamp and motor shut down, but it does not go into non-sync.

Posted by Mark Hathaway (Member # 1044) on 06-22-2002, 01:40 AM:

does the cp500 have serial control, or relays switching ground for the automation interface?

Mark

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-22-2002, 12:07 PM:

Mark, I cannot answer that right now because I don't know. I would presume it is switched directly from the TA-10. However, I did discover an additional relay bolted inside the TA-10, but what its purpose in life is, I have not figured that out yet. I'll have to do some manual triggering to see what it does.

There might be a wiring error. The Surround EX activating on tail-out blows my mind. I think that was supposed to be a non-sync trigger, not an EX trigger. I don't know enough about it until I hit the books some more.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 06-22-2002, 12:11 PM:

I have no idea how the TA-10 is programmed, but perhaps this is just a programming error and it needs to be programmed for NS rather than EX.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-22-2002, 12:16 PM:

If you are using a TA10 you are not using serial control of the 500

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 06-22-2002, 01:49 PM:

'Just noticed something else....The EX light comes on when lamp and motor shut down, but it does not go into non-sync.'

Paul, if the processor is trying to switch into EX at the end of the projector stop sequence, you could change the format layout on the CP-500 so that the the non-sync softkey is where the EX softkey is now. This may solve the non-sync problem if it is currently trying to switch into EX all the time.

Another thought, is the processor trying to switch into non-sync at the beginning of the show? (The non-sync softkey would flash) If it is you could change the softkey to be format 10 (or whatever you want the default to be).

Good luck!

Daryl

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-22-2002, 02:02 PM:

Daryl, I'll look into that, but it'll be a couple of days before I can do that..

I do know that it is not trying to switch into non-sync at the start of the show.

There are two Format 10 softkeys set up. Why...I don't know. I think the CP-500 is confused.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 06-22-2002, 02:13 PM:

Paul, the reason there are two format 10 keys is that one would be used for trimming the trailer volume. On the start sequence the processor would be pulsed into the key set for the trailer volume, then another cue at the end of the trailers (often in a different position on the film - like the opposite side or center of frame) would pulse the processor into the feature key with the louder feature volume. If you're not going to use another cue at the end of the trailers just set the first key that it pulses into to the volume you want the show to run at (of course after you get it to pulse into a format 10 when it's supposed to at show start

Daryl

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-22-2002, 02:37 PM:

Paul is the second format 10 at SK8 then it is not a seperate level but the EX dolby digital mode

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-22-2002, 04:15 PM:

Gordon, there are 3 format 10's in that thing.

They are at SK-4, SK-6, and SK-8.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-22-2002, 04:19 PM:

Sounds like SK4 is for feature volume/non-EX. SK6 is for trailer volume/non-EX. SK8 is feature volume/EX. The SA10 standard wiring is for SK8 and SK4 is left for running non-EX films.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-22-2002, 04:47 PM:

Ok...first off...firmware 1.61 is buggy...the Non-Sync pulse from the automation being ignored is a known issue with 1.61. When having automation issues with a surround-EX SA-10 installation, is to blame the SA-10...unplug it's automation sense line and see if your problems go away. The SA-10 WILL load down the lines. I'm not saying either of these are causing your specific problem but they are known. You'll need the latest 1.5X (I think it is 1.52) to handle Surround-EX (it echos the SKs to the automation connector so the SA-10 will "see" it).

If you have more than one CP-500, you can always move the mother board to see if the problem moves (be forwarned, the EQ and level settings are stored on it so you will have to save and reupload.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-22-2002, 04:52 PM:

Steve, there is a distinct possibility you nailed it. I'll have to try your recommendation.

I'll also have to get someone up here to install the new firmware. I don't have a computer (laptop or anything else) in that booth. The junky POS down in the office probably could not handle it since it is one step above a boat anchor.