This is topic Century Intermittent Oil in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 06-21-2002, 07:07 PM:
Would someone please describe in technical terms and/or in layman's terms what Century intermittent oil is and what it looks like?I've got a generic aluminum tin here with the words "Century Oil" written on it (hand-written with a marker).
The oil seems a little on the dark side and it's also a bit thick in my opinion. Reminds me of pancake syrup.
The oil I used to use was a whole lot thinner and lighter in color...about the weight of 3-in-1 oil and the color of pale urine.
I'm totally confused as to which (assuming either one of them) is the correct oil.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-21-2002, 08:00 PM:
Manny, Don't use it! Order some new stuff.Century intermittant oil looks the same as Simplex projector oil. It is clear in color. Lavezzi oil is the best, but you can use Texaco WF-32 oil with no problem. WF-32 is basically refrigeration compressor oil.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-21-2002, 11:50 PM:
LaVezzi oil is by far the best stuff to use. You can expect two to three times the service from a movement if you use it from day one.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 06-22-2002, 06:54 AM:
Thanks. I have the Lavezzi on order and I'm going to shop around locally for the Texaco WF-32.Is there a widely available oil that can be used in the meantime if I have nothing else?
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 06-22-2002, 07:14 AM:
ISO-10 weight "spindle oil" will run in just about anything. I will soon be running my brenkerts on this stuff and dont forsee any problems. If you are in a bind, go to a refrigeration supplier and buy a quantity of "capella oil," which is a lightweight oil used to lubricate the inside of refrigeration equipment, mainly compressors. the stuff will work, but just to be on the safe side, get the new oil in there asap!Josh
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"Film is made of silver, video is made of rust"
'nuf said
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 06-22-2002, 07:56 AM:
Manny, sounds like you're describing the stuff that comes with Monee machines. If the ones I service are anything to go by, it doesn't lubricate very well at all, in fact I though it smelt of vegetable oil myself! I haven't told that theatre to change oil though, as the stuff they have was supplied with the projectors, and it's hardly my place to go against the manufacturers specified lubricant.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-22-2002, 10:01 AM:
I have some very strong opinions on the matter of oils and they are based on the original manuals
The century's simplex standard/super/E7 Ballantyne Pro35 all use what is basically a #20 SAE on detergent oil. Lighter oils will work but the machine will piss it out and tend to knock
XL's use a #10
Soundhead oils are a SAE40 non detergent
Motiograph intermittents use SAE9o outboard gear oil
Hortsons 16mm use SAE40
Wassman in 10w30 non detergent
Westrex was a specific shell SAE20
When most of these machines were designed fancy synthetic oils were not around and in most cases they were designed for the best available product of the time. Newer lubricants have come and gone but I still prefer to use the originally specified lubricants
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-22-2002, 12:00 PM:
Gordon, are you sure about the SAE 20 in the Pro-35? I never used it, nor did I ever see the recommendation until now. I always used Capella oil in those things. But now I think of it, the PRO-35 oil does have a funky smell to it. It smelled like 10W30 motor oil. Maybe that's why it smelled that way. 
In any event, I'll accept your recommendations. You always seem to be "right on target".
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-22-2002, 12:30 PM:
Yeah, Josh. I'll bring you the 4 gallons I have next month. I am still using it as a telephone stand for the Boeing Surplus red telephone. Gordon just spurred a thought. Maybe the reason the Brenkerts of yours are pissing oil out of the starwheel bushing is because you are using the orrect oil.
For years, those things were probably running on Simplex oil, WF-32, aircraft hydraulic fluid, beaver oil, EP-90, SAE 40 weight, popcorn oil, or anything else some numbnuts dumped into those things. Finally, the right oil is used, and the bushings are worn out of tolerance, and leak like a two-bit -----! 
Just a thought.
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 06-22-2002, 03:25 PM:
I went to a local store looking for the WF-32 oil and they didn't have any so I'm going to have to keep looking. I bought a small bottle of some 10W-30 oil and it appears too dark in color and smells just awful.
I bought another small bottle of "Super Oil" (by Master Mechanic). It is a lightweight, colorless oil. Seems a lot lighter than 3-in-1.
Actually, 3-in-1 oil seems closest to what I used to use (except for the oily smell).
I really feel like this oil here is too thick and gooey and I want to get it out of those machines ASAP.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-22-2002, 04:54 PM:
Manny said"I bought a small bottle of some 10W-30 oil and it appears too dark in color and smells just awful.I bought another small bottle of "Super Oil" (by Master Mechanic). It is a lightweight, colorless oil. Seems a lot lighter than 3-in-1.
Actually, 3-in-1 oil seems closest to what I used to use (except for the oily smell)."
I don't understand why you would go out and buy those
Almost all dealers sell the correct oils for the given machine.
I once noticed you mentioned Westars and if so the lighter oils will just piss out of them as unless they say made in the UK they are an Indian Hybrid or parts
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-22-2002, 04:55 PM:
I've never found Century oil to look, smell or feel anything like Simplex oil. Century almost always has a yellow-brown tinge to it. It is also thicker than Simplex oil. Simplex oil in a Century intermittent will often have leaks that Century oil will not. I don't recommend Lavezzi oil on a new intermittent until it works in, once it does then the Lavezzi oil will really go to town...the intermittent will actually get quieter and stay that way. On a new intermittent/rebuild with new star and cam, they are often just a tinge tight and need to work in, the Lavezzi oil will prevent this.Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 06-22-2002, 05:07 PM:
My dealer is in Florida and it will take a couple of days for the oil to get here.Judging from Steve's comments about the color/viscosity of the Century oil, it seems possible that this is the correct oil after all...but this begs the question...what the heck was I using before?
Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 06-22-2002, 07:36 PM:
Don't some less than scrupulous dealers simply buy a drum of lightweight machine oil, dispense it into pint and quart tins and then slap labels on them, identifying some as specially formulated for Simplex, some as Century, and others as Ballantyne, the same oil in all cans?LaVezzi oil only comes in one weight, right?
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-22-2002, 07:53 PM:
Some probably do
My big complaint with lavezzi oil is it is one weight and I feel far too light for some machines
Posted by Luciano Brigite (Member # 1104) on 06-23-2002, 12:19 AM:
I'm using Singer Oil for industrial sewing machine in both of my GK12
it's marked as ISO-VG10 oil and it seems to be ok. the only complaint is that both of them will pee it out if tilted just a little bit .
Not sure if it's the right oil for it but they're running nice and quiet, except for one that's noisy like a bulldozer :Pone of them was already noisy, the other in the pair runs with minimal noise.. see my post about the GK12 for more info if interested
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-23-2002, 12:37 AM:
What is the ISO standard on Lavezzi oil, anyway? I wonder who makes it for them? Mobil orginally made the oil for Brenkert, and Chevron Hydraulic Oil AW ISO 10 is a direct replacement for it. And, this Chevron oil is the suggested replacement for Amoco Spindle Oil "A".
Military 1010 Turbine Oil used in jet aircraft engines also comes to mind. I think it is a synthetic oil, but I never ran it in a projector. When the can is shaken, it sounds like a can of ISO 15.
Posted by John Westlund (Member # 913) on 06-23-2002, 02:39 AM:
We just got some Lavezzi oil for our SA. Only ran it one show so we will see how it turns out.
Posted by Matt Close (Member # 996) on 06-23-2002, 04:35 AM:
Steve, I'm curious .... You talk about Lavezzi oil doing wonders for a noisy movement. I run Monee auto-turrets (the Century knock-off) , and the movements are all a little noisy ... and leaky .... Would the Lavezzi oil improve this, or do I just have to live with the 'craftsmenship' 
that is Monee.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-23-2002, 09:50 AM:
Usually when the Monee movements are noisy it is a case of adjustment of the star cam clearance is required
As for leaking the oil being used may be a bit light
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 06-23-2002, 11:11 AM:
Could somebody elaborate on the differences between a Century, a Monee and a Westar ?I thought the parts were interchangeable.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-23-2002, 12:19 PM:
This has been discussed before but here it is again
In the beginning the century projector corp invented the century C projector but they had no soundhead for it to package
They licensed from Western Electric the use of the dynamic stabaliser (R2 soundhead) and the common Davis Tight Loop stabliser.
In the deal Western Electric got the rights to the Century projector design outside of USA.
Western Electric Export Division was called Westrex
They started I beleive in building a cloned machine in the UK called the Westar. It had several differences one being the pitch of the gears was sligltly different (apparently to make it smoother running on 50 Hz mains) and the upper and lower sprocket were on assemblies (like the simplex XL) that could be removed.
This machines was produced localy in many country Westrex was in such as Italy, India, and others. In Canada Western Electric was callled Northern Electric and made only the soundhead and imported the C from the US
When Westrex was brocken up the projector divisions were sold off.
Westrex UK continued to develop and manufacture creating newer machines such as the Westrex5000 35/70 machine The Westrex7000 the first all belt driven machine and the first use of a double sided timing belt (they got several patents for its design) and the Westrex Tower.
Quad8 in Italy took over Westrex there and in LA for the line of sound recorders(cameras and dubbers)
In India they became Cinecitta which split up into Monee and CinecittaThere was also a Mexican and a south american machine as well
Each country developed modifications to the design to suite there manufacturing conditions and market needs.
The Quad8 portion was sold off to a for the line of POS printers they had and has basically disappeared with the sale of the electronic machine to CinemaProducts and then Christie (epic projector)
THe Uk portion was bought out by Steven Kramms of ICECO in Miami and kept going for several years before being relocated to the US
Most of the current Westars are hybrids of parts from the Indian machines and is available in both the Westrex and the century gear pitchs
But not all parts are interchangeable
All the versions though tend to be robust and if cared for and operated and installed as the manufacturer intended give good service
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-23-2002, 01:40 PM:
(Donning my flame proof suit and blast deflectors)Poop on this. POOP POOP POOP POOP!
Damn! Just give me a high quality precision machine oil of the proper manufacturer's recommended viscosity, and I'll use it if that is all I have. I don't care if it looks like owl piss or monkey piss. For years Motiograph was packing their movements with grease. For years, I ran WF-32 in in Simplex's, and Centurys (including their knock-off's) as well as and PRO-35's. I have used aircraft hydraulic fluid in Brenkerts. In all these 35 years, I have not lost an intermittant movement due to lack of lubrication! The only thing I really concern myself with is that it lubricates properly, and it does not attack seals, and the oils can "get along" with each other. Some of those old machines are so loose you could almost get away with using STP!
Some say you can't use JP-5 in Diesel engines. Hell, the US Navy has been burning that shit for years in their GSE Diesels! Works great! There are morons that tell me I can't burn green color Diesel fuel in engines designed for off-road use! POPPYCOCK! Also, railroad locomotives burn the cheapest shit they can find in both their GE and EMD locomotives!
POOP POOP POOP POOP! 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-23-2002, 01:46 PM:
Paul said"For years Motiograph was packing their movements with grease. For years"
SAE90 gear oil is considered a fluid grease and was used from day one on the AA machines (I still have an original tube of it)
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-23-2002, 01:50 PM:
Yeah, Gordon....it came in a tube. Squeeze it in there until it comes out of the other hole just like a turd, with an occasional fart. It was runny and chunky, all at the same time. Same shit - different shovel.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-23-2002, 03:36 PM:
Gord said,
"I have some very strong opinions on the matter of oils and they're based on the original manuals" Well if you like living back in the 30's, 40's, and 50's when those manuals were written, thats fine. This is 2002, and frankly, the Space Shuttle wouldn't make it to 10,000 feet altitude with oil from that era! With turbopumps spinning at over 30,000 rpm the bearings would disentegrate quickly. There are alot of new and far better lubes developed over the years, partly due to space technology spin offs. Its time you got with it and put your customers on the better and wiser path as well!! You can also make some better profits at the same time.....
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-23-2002, 03:57 PM:
Yes mark but projectors havenot really changed nor has the method of construction.
I have not been happy with the perfomance of any machine that has had the LaVezzi oil in it. They tend to leak more and be a bit noisier.
Also I had a FP20 sieze up about a day after it was switched to it.
Stick with what works
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-26-2002, 06:25 PM:
Actually Gord,
Materials have changed alot as far as what modern shafts and gears, cams and stars are manufactued from these days. LaVezzi oil is not the only choice out there for synthetics. You need to attend Synthetic Lube 101 and get your customers on the right track.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 06-28-2002, 07:57 AM:
Speaking of FP20's, grade of oil is Kinoton intermittent oil?